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Old 21st July 2013, 22:44   #76
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Default Re: My Trusted Workhorse - Maruti Suzuki WagonR

Yesterday it rained heavily in Delhi and I had to drive my WagonR through a seriously water logged patch .

Engine was about to stall and I kept the RPM high to prevent it from stalling but RPM was not stable.

After reaching a safe place I opened the bonnet to inspect the engine and found that water did reached the engine bay and I could see battery/air filter cover/etc wet . I also got a little worried as the amplifier is placed under front passenger seat.

After that there was no issue and car started/drove just normally. I hope this behaviour was normal.

Later today while washing the car I found little rusting on the inside lower portion of both front doors. I sprayed com-paint over the rusted surface to cover it and then later applied wax after the paint dried up.

What else I can do to prevent the door lower edges from further rusting?

Also I would like to get some tips on driving the car in such severe water logged conditions again.

Last edited by bluevolt : 21st July 2013 at 23:11.
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Old 21st July 2013, 23:02   #77
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Default Re: My Trusted Workhorse - Maruti Suzuki WagonR

@bluevolt---it is better to avoid driving through deep water, but I can understand from TOI today that yesterday's rains caused havoc in Delhi, so your ordeal was unavoidable.

You did the right thing by keeping revvs high. As regards anti-rust treatment, I think you need to find out from MASS if they have something for the inner layers of the doors. Ford ASS has anti-rust waxoyl treatment for such things and it cost me around 3750 for my Fiesta around 5 years ago. This is separate from under-body coat and exterior paint treatment. If MASS does not have it, then contact Waxoyl. It is worth the money, I can tell you.

I too had to drive through deep water around 3 years ago on my WagonR close to home. The water was nearly a few inches below my headlamps, but the stretch was only for 25 meters. I did have some water seeping through the doors, causing the foot mats to stink for nearly a week. After parking the car outside for a few hours on a sunny day, the stink vanished.
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Old 13th September 2013, 18:42   #78
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Default Re: My Trusted Workhorse - Maruti Suzuki WagonR

Since past few days I am experiencing irregular RPM behaviour in my WagonR especially with cold starts. Normally the RPM shoots little higher as soon as the engine is started but now that does not happen which causes engine to stall if I put on AC before engine is completely hot. In other words, Engine shudders on cold start.

After engine has reached optimum temperature, there is no problem. What could be this minor issue?
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Old 13th September 2013, 19:02   #79
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Default Re: My Trusted Workhorse - Maruti Suzuki WagonR

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Originally Posted by bluevolt View Post
Since past few days I am experiencing irregular RPM behaviour in my WagonR especially with cold starts. Normally the RPM shoots little higher as soon as the engine is started but now that does not happen which causes engine to stall if I put on AC before engine is completely hot. In other words, Engine shudders on cold start.

After engine has reached optimum temperature, there is no problem. What could be this minor issue?
First get the IAC Valve checked by opening the throttle body. Many a times it may be stuck due to dirt which prevents it from functioning normally and be able to maintain the pre defined target RPM set by the ECU.

Additionally, can you also do this:

With the car warmed up, Turn the AC on. For the 4 Cylinder F10D Engine, The Usual RPM is 750+/- 50 RPM with AC Off and 850+/- 50 RPM with AC On to compensate the load. See if the RPM of your car rises by 100 after Turning the AC on. If that is happening, I am sure the IAC is working fine.

If IAC is cleaned and doing its duty as designed (various voltage and resistance tests to as per workshop manual) check to see if all the cylinders are firing well. Loosen the bolts of Ignitor coils on Cylinder head cover and pull plug one by one. This way you will be able to eliminate a particular ignitor (1 or the 4) or the spark plug misfire.

I somehow suspect that its the case of a stuck IAC Valve.

In fact, with the car running you can pull out the IAC Plug on the Throttle body and you will see the RPM Drop drastically (almost 500s) and as soon as you plug it back, it increases. This also signifies a working IAC.

So far, such a thing has happened to me only once in 210k kms and that too after a service when Throttle Body was opened and cleaned.

Last edited by paragsachania : 13th September 2013 at 19:05.
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Old 13th September 2013, 19:21   #80
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Default Re: My Trusted Workhorse - Maruti Suzuki WagonR

Want to understand which spark plugs to be used for my Wagon R CNG, replacement frequency and most imp. how do i do it on my own?

Would appreciate any pointers.

Last edited by idea : 13th September 2013 at 19:24.
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Old 13th September 2013, 19:22   #81
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Default Re: My Trusted Workhorse - Maruti Suzuki WagonR

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Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
First get the IAC Valve checked by opening the throttle body. Many a times it may be stuck due to dirt which prevents it from functioning normally and be able to maintain the pre defined target RPM set by the ECU.

Additionally, can you also do this:

With the car warmed up, Turn the AC on. For the 4 Cylinder F10D Engine, The Usual RPM is 750+/- 50 RPM with AC Off and 850+/- 50 RPM with AC On to compensate the load. See if the RPM of your car rises by 100 after Turning the AC on. If that is happening, I am sure the IAC is working fine.

If IAC is cleaned and doing its duty as designed (various voltage and resistance tests to as per workshop manual) check to see if all the cylinders are firing well. Loosen the bolts of Ignitor coils on Cylinder head cover and pull plug one by one. This way you will be able to eliminate a particular ignitor (1 or the 4) or the spark plug misfire.

I somehow suspect that its the case of a stuck IAC Valve.

In fact, with the car running you can pull out the IAC Plug on the Throttle body and you will see the RPM Drop drastically (almost 500s) and as soon as you plug it back, it increases. This also signifies a working IAC.

So far, such a thing has happened to me only once in 210k kms and that too after a service when Throttle Body was opened and cleaned.
Since my car don't have a tacho, I checked this only by observing the engine RPM sound and there was very slight change in RPM upon switching the A/C as compared to before. Looks like I have to get the IAC valve/throttle body cleaned.
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Old 16th September 2013, 00:24   #82
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Default Re: My Trusted Workhorse - Maruti Suzuki WagonR

Can this issue also cause low mileage? I have noticed the same ever since this problem cropped up.
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Old 16th September 2013, 09:07   #83
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Default Re: My Trusted Workhorse - Maruti Suzuki WagonR

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Originally Posted by bluevolt View Post
Since my car don't have a tacho, I checked this only by observing the engine RPM sound and there was very slight change in RPM upon switching the A/C as compared to before. Looks like I have to get the IAC valve/throttle body cleaned.
Best is to first connect the OBD Scanner at MASS and get the reading of the RPM. You will easily know about lower than usual RPMs and functioning of IAC (and the valve).

while connected to the scanner, ask the Mechanic to pull out the IAC plug from the throttle body and notice a drop in RPM (on the scanner screen). Connect this back and you will notice that it will increase.
My Trusted Workhorse - Maruti Suzuki WagonR-iac.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluevolt View Post
Can this issue also cause low mileage? I have noticed the same ever since this problem cropped up.
Well, there can be possibilities since this can also result in erratic idling. Lower than usual idle RPMs will alter your driving such that you tend to use more throttle in B2B traffic which you otherwise crawled easily in 2nd gear at standard idle RPMs.

Here's a pic of the IAC for your reference from my DIY Throttle Body cleaning:
My Trusted Workhorse - Maruti Suzuki WagonR-tb.jpg

Last edited by paragsachania : 16th September 2013 at 09:33.
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Old 3rd November 2013, 01:26   #84
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Default Re: My Trusted Workhorse - Maruti Suzuki WagonR

I am noticing a unusual crushing/grinding kind of noise when I press the clutch pedal to shift gears or start the car since last two days but the sound goes off as soon as I move my foot away from it. This happens both during idle and running condition.

What could cause this?
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Old 7th November 2013, 20:51   #85
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Default Re: My Trusted Workhorse - Maruti Suzuki WagonR

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I am noticing a unusual crushing/grinding kind of noise when I press the clutch pedal to shift gears or start the car since last two days but the sound goes off as soon as I move my foot away from it. This happens both during idle and running condition.

What could cause this?
Could be the Clutch-Release bearing as a first guess.

When the noise surfaces try to increase or decrease the engine revs with the clutch depressed and check if the noise intensity is also changing accordingly.

If the noise is confirmed from the gearbox area (when pressing the clutch), I would suggest you get the clutch inspected and if you are running on stock clutch**, I would again suggest you to simply replace with a new set (Plate, Cover Assembly, Release Bearing and Flywheel).

The labor that you would pay for the clutch inspection is same as what you would pay to replace the whole clutch.

(**If you have clocked fair number of kilometers say 45-55k kms)
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Old 8th November 2013, 15:43   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post

Could be the Clutch-Release bearing as a first guess.

When the noise surfaces try to increase or decrease the engine revs with the clutch depressed and check if the noise intensity is also changing accordingly.

If the noise is confirmed from the gearbox area (when pressing the clutch), I would suggest you get the clutch inspected and if you are running on stock clutch**, I would again suggest you to simply replace with a new set (Plate, Cover Assembly, Release Bearing and Flywheel).

The labor that you would pay for the clutch inspection is same as what you would pay to replace the whole clutch.

(**If you have clocked fair number of kilometers say 45-55k kms)
Yes the sound comes on pressing the pedal and I can feel variations in sound depending on engine RPM.

There is no loss in pickup though.

Tomorrow i am taking the car for service, it has clocked 44K Kms and last service was done in july 2012 with 40k kms on odo.

Its over 1.5 years since last service but since running is low it has clocked 4k km since last service.

Earlier I was thinking of getting it inspected from local mechanic but dropped the idea to ensure peace of mind. Will take to DD motors tomorrow.

Now if tomorrow Maruti SVC suggests to replace clutch then should I go ahead? Pick up is fine.

Do I need to replace gear oil also along with new clutch set?

What all things I should take care of for tomorrow's service.

Also I am planning to get the brake pads changed so should I have to get the brake fluid replaced along with that?

Many thanks for your valuable suggestions.

Last edited by bluevolt : 8th November 2013 at 15:50.
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Old 8th November 2013, 16:37   #87
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Default Re: My Trusted Workhorse - Maruti Suzuki WagonR

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Originally Posted by bluevolt View Post
Yes the sound comes on pressing the pedal and I can feel variations in sound depending on engine RPM.

There is no loss in pickup though.
I too have a feeling of the clutch release bearings would have gone kaput.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluevolt View Post
Tomorrow i am taking the car for service, it has clocked 44K Kms and last service was done in july 2012 with 40k kms on odo.

Its over 1.5 years since last service but since running is low it has clocked 4k km since last service.
Please get the air filter and engine oil changed as it is 1.5 years since the last change.

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Now if tomorrow Maruti SVC suggests to replace clutch then should I go ahead? Pick up is fine.
Since you say there is no loss in pick-up why change the clutch! If possible open and check it's condition. If the wear and tear is even then let this clutch continue if not then get it replaced.

Quote:
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Do I need to replace gear oil also along with new clutch set?
No, you don't need to change the oil if changing the clutch. But if the gear oil was never changed then please do change it. Just a proactive measure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluevolt View Post
What all things I should take care of for tomorrow's service.
Is the car going for routine service with this vibration issue or your just taking for the rectification of this problem?

1) Ensure that the engine oil and air filter is changed
2) Wheel balancing and alignment with rotation, if not done and get it done outside, NOT at MASS.
3) All Fluid levels.

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Also I am planning to get the brake pads changed so should I have to get the brake fluid replaced along with that?
Yes, change the brake pads and get the system bled with new brake oil and check for effectiveness once completed. There must be no air lock!

Anurag.
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Old 8th November 2013, 17:32   #88
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Default Re: My Trusted Workhorse - Maruti Suzuki WagonR

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluevolt View Post
Yes the sound comes on pressing the pedal and I can feel variations in sound depending on engine RPM.
Most likely its the release bearing then.
Quote:
There is no loss in pickup though.
It will be too difficult to assess and judge to be able to define "Loss of Pick-up" and then conclude if the clutch is good or bad. Remember that any loss of power due to weak clutch won't happen overnight and will always be gradual that you as a single driver will seldom be able to make out . You can simply do the classic Hand brake test and check for the health of the clutch or even take a TD of another F10D WagonR and you will know the difference almost immediately.

Quote:
Now if tomorrow Maruti SVC suggests to replace clutch then should I go ahead? Pick up is fine.
Inspect the clutch yourself for wear and tear. Depending on the condition you can take a call.

Quote:
Do I need to replace gear oil also along with new clutch set?
Ideally, Transmission oil is to be replaced every 20,000 kms. If last replacement was anything before 15000 kms, simply get that replaced.

Quote:
Also I am planning to get the brake pads changed so should I have to get the brake fluid replaced along with that?
Not necessarily. With new pads being thicker, I am sure a couple of ml of Brake fluid will anyways get drained out. But as Anurag mentions, I would suggest proper brake fluid bleeding when you get the pads replaced to get the right "Bite" with your brakes.
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Old 8th November 2013, 18:08   #89
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Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
It will be too difficult to assess and judge to be able to define "Loss of Pick-up" and then conclude if the clutch is good or bad.
The RPM vs Speed vs Sound will help you get the answer of clutch life.

If the rpm is high and speed is lower than normal then clutch can be thought as one of the reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
You can simply do the classic Hand brake test and check for the health of the clutch or even take a TD of another F10D WagonR and you will know the difference almost immediately.
Can you elaborate on this, please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
Not necessarily. With new pads being thicker, I am sure a couple of ml of Brake fluid will anyways get drained out. But as Anurag mentions, I would suggest proper brake fluid bleeding when you get the pads replaced to get the right "Bite" with your brakes.
Since pads are new why keep the oil old?! That's why I make it point to change both. For brake shoes, emery paper rub once to be done.

Anurag.
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Old 8th November 2013, 18:22   #90
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The RPM vs Speed vs Sound will help you get the answer of clutch life.
Exactly!! And this is when you drive another car and realize your own car is over-revving and under performing. The wear is too gradual to just listen to RPM-Noise and ascertain if its the clutch (Slippage is another thing). Like I mentioned, it may not happen overnight. Plus, even with a weak clutch your will still be able to reach good speeds (But a tad slower to reach the mark). Juddering at lower speeds is another hint as well.

A couple of other hints would be how effectively and quickly your car jumps forward from standstill when moving from a Traffic light.

Quote:
If the rpm is high and speed is lower than normal then clutch can be thought as one of the reason.
Unless you have a Tacho, its again something you will realise only later.

Quote:
Can you elaborate on this, please.
Start Car in Neutral-Hand Brakes engaged fully (and functional)-Slot into first gear-Release clutch and simultaneously increase throttle.

A Good clutch is likely to ensure the car turns itself off at one point (when you release the clutch almost 70%) while a weak one will ensure the revs keep increasing with no signs of car turning off.

In Diesel, you may slot into 1st and release the clutch and the lugging speeds/momentum will determine its health in the most simple manner.
Quote:
Since pads are new why keep the oil old?! That's why I make it point to change both. For brake shoes, emery paper rub once to be done.
I am not sure how to classify the Brake fluid as "Old" apart from the last changed interval and the kilometers clocked after that. A top up of Brake fluid (Unless it hasn't been changed as per periodic schedule) is more than good even when you change the Brake pads. It is not going to cause any harm or affect the braking efficiency whatsoever.

My advise on using the same fluid is not to save few bucks (as Brake fluid is hardly an expense) but in general, It is definitely not necessary to replace complete brake fluid when you change pads (If the brake fluid was changed recently & has more life to go).

Last edited by paragsachania : 8th November 2013 at 18:23.
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