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Old 15th March 2011, 19:24   #151
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Default re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. A Month of Ownership & New Snaps!

Mr Wordsmith - what a beautifully written review. Full paanch sitaare to you.

I for one like the interiors of this brute. However, that faux wood is definitely out of place. Maybe something in a classy shade of black / tan or an aluminium kinda finish would have looked better.

Enjoy many miles with the Admiral and heartiest congratulations.
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Old 15th March 2011, 21:32   #152
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Default re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. A Month of Ownership & New Snaps!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guderian View Post
Modern day cars do not have a speed restriction during the 'Breaking In' period yet all of us are terrorised into following a 60-80 KMPH or 80-100 KMPH restriction.

Change of engine oil and filter after 500/1000 KMs. Not recommended now at all, but was a general advice some 10 years ago
Yes, they are old wives (10 year old) tales now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guderian View Post
Or do we operate on a basis of why take chances after having spent so much on the vehicle - on both points mentioned above ?
After all it is not every day that you pop into a shop and drive away Admiral Togo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guderian View Post
I changed full time to Hi Speed. The engine turned ultra smooth, better pick up and the average jumped up.
Many of us have experienced the same thing. Good quality fuel does work.

In short all the point that you have brought out are perfectly valid.

P.S.: I survived today, but was on lookout for a very angry T Fort around every corner. Did you realize that T Fort sounds amazingly similar to T Rex?
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Old 16th March 2011, 09:34   #153
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Default re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. A Month of Ownership & New Snaps!

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Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad View Post
Mr Wordsmith - what a beautifully written review. Full paanch sitaare to you.

I for one like the interiors of this brute. However, that faux wood is definitely out of place. Maybe something in a classy shade of black / tan or an aluminium kinda finish would have looked better.

Enjoy many miles with the Admiral and heartiest congratulations.
Hi Urban Nomad, Thanks for the good wishes, the moniker and the rating !

Quote:
Originally Posted by dot View Post
Yes, they are old wives (10 year old) tales now.



After all it is not every day that you pop into a shop and drive away Admiral Togo.



Many of us have experienced the same thing. Good quality fuel does work.

In short all the point that you have brought out are perfectly valid.

P.S.: I survived today, but was on lookout for a very angry T Fort around every corner. Did you realize that T Fort sounds amazingly similar to T Rex?
Hi Dot, That does put me me and the other doubting Thomases in a fix ! Do we, don't we ? But anyway good learning.
And not to worry about Admiral, who is the most benign T Fort you'll find on the roads !

And here is a clarification or adding to the confusion !:

Last evening I checked the Owner's Manual of Admiral regarding fuel advice. All it said was:
- Fill diesel fuel.
- Appropriate fuel is essential to prevent engine damage and such screw ups are not covered by warranty.
- Use Cetane 48 or higher grade fuel.
Nothing else.

Further had a little time this morning, what with having fetched up early at the office. My colleague had purchased a brand new Innova (Feb) recently, so I took the Innova's O's M and went through the fuel section:
- It mumbled something about Gasoline type requirements.
- And then the Diesel stuff which was:
- Fill diesel fuel.
- Appropriate fuel is essential to prevent engine damage and such screw
ups are not covered by warranty.
- Use Cetane 48 or higher grade fuel.
Nothing else.
Cetane number ? Here - have a look this - should give you an idea of what Cetane numbering is all about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetane_number

So as I understand, the addition of certain additives (like in premium HiSpeed from BPCL) improves the Cetane number by improving/reducing the start of combustion. So why should there be an issue ? This parameter centers around the efficiency of fuel.
Secondly, the BSIII/BSIV etc typology, generally centers around the reduction of sulphur/sulfur content in the new age Diesels/other fuels along with certain other parameters - pollutionwise.


Overall the manuals were exactly the same word for word, feature for feature. So here is another point of annoyance and another round of ammo for folks who have earlier bellyached about interiors and other stuff being same in a 14 L and 24 L vehicle. Manuals are also the b***dy same !
'ow in the blazes can they have the same blessed manuals for two categories of vehicles ? They are breaking away from time honoured vehicle caste system without even talking to vehicle maha-pundits ! How dare they !

Anyway, seriously, the above indications (or lack of it ) about fuel type from the two manuals on the diesel type to be used only adds......errrr..... fuel (!) to the debate than clarify it.

So where do we go from here ?

Any more thoughts ?

Last edited by Guderian : 16th March 2011 at 09:57.
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Old 16th March 2011, 11:54   #154
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Default re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. A Month of Ownership & New Snaps!

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Originally Posted by Guderian View Post
So as I understand, the addition of certain additives (like in premium HiSpeed from BPCL) improves the Cetane number by improving/reducing the start of combustion. So why should there be an issue ?

So where do we go from here ?

Any more thoughts ?
For some reason, spent time on the net to understand HCCI and CRDI diesel engines. Since your (well, Admiral's) engine is based on CRDI technology, a high cetane number should not be an issue.
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Old 16th March 2011, 12:24   #155
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Default re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. A Month of Ownership & New Snaps!

Though the premium Petrols have a higher octane count, in case of premium diesels that is not the case, premium diesels in India DO NOT have a higher Cetane count, (the count remains the same as in normal Diesel) instead they have additives that clean the system including the injectors and prevent carbon deposits etc.

A Common Rail Engine does not take too kindly to additives, and they are best avoided. So NO Super Diesel, Hi Speed, Xtramile or Turbojet.

Last edited by ACM : 16th March 2011 at 12:28.
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Old 16th March 2011, 12:26   #156
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Default re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. A Month of Ownership & New Snaps!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dot View Post
For some reason, spent time on the net to understand HCCI and CRDI diesel engines. Since your (well, Admiral's) engine is based on CRDI technology, a high cetane number should not be an issue.
Right - on the Dot, may I dare say, perhaps ?!!
However I am still puzzled about the reason why the A.S.S. chaps and the auto comps push for the sada diesel use only.
Is it that we are missing something here ?
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Old 16th March 2011, 12:31   #157
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Default re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. A Month of Ownership & New Snaps!

Well, ACM has answered the very question just 2 minutes back!
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Old 16th March 2011, 12:33   #158
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Default re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. A Month of Ownership & New Snaps!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Tough the premium Petrols have a higher octane count, in case of premium diesels that is not the case, premium diesels in India DO NOT have a higher Cetane count, (the count remains the same as in normal Diesel) instead they have additives that clean the system including the injectors and prevent carbon deposits etc.

A Common Rail Engine does not take too kindly to additives, and they are best avoided. So NO Super Diesel, Hi Speed, Xtramile or Turbojet.
Hi ACM, Thanks.
So again it comes back to the jamming of the fine CR nozzles by the higher sized additive molecules ? Or is there some other reason for the CR Engine not taking it too kindly bit ?

Then there is a tendency of the old timers to recommend putting in sada diesel and putting in a can of additive/acetone every once in a while. I suppose that has the same effect as the PSUs' premium diesel additive ?
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Old 16th March 2011, 12:52   #159
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Default re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. A Month of Ownership & New Snaps!

A lot of the service engineers / sales guys even in an authorized centre are not aware of the offical company advise. For example in TATA they to tend to advice use of System D but this is only for the earlier Indica, Indigo, TCIC Safari, Sumo etc. the newer Dicor, CR4, e series manuals clearly advice against the use of additives.

If a Skoda starts smoking (white) the first question that they ask is if we had put any premium diesel in it.

I guess the same would be true for all Newer Diesels, infact even the pumps are now coming around realizing that newer diesel cars will take only normal diesel.

Its odd that for new and expensive petrol cars we tend to buy the best and most expensive petrol we can find and the more modern a diesel engine the more basic the diesel it takes.

Bio Diesel will be the next thing out here, a lot of the European cars already allow Bio Diesel as a fuel by default.

By the way there is a guy headquartered in West Mumbai who remaps diesel cars including the swift, skodas etc. I spoke to him for my Laura and he seemed very well informed and was priced comfortably as well. Was about the go for the Remap with him, but a discussion with him on how actually the remap would work for the Laura and his insistance that post remap I should use only premium diesel (which would have higher cetane count as per him), closed the deal for me in the -ve and I backed out. The logic given just didn't make sense though it would have seemed logical for a petrol vehicle.

That said there are others who do remap car without insisting on using premium diesel as the peformance edge then claim and give is based on other parameters. I would go with one of them at a later stage.

Last edited by ACM : 16th March 2011 at 12:56.
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Old 16th March 2011, 13:38   #160
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Default re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. A Month of Ownership & New Snaps!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
By the way there is a guy headquartered in West Mumbai who remaps diesel cars including the swift, skodas etc. I spoke to him for my Laura and he seemed very well informed and was priced comfortably as well. Was about the go for the Remap with him, but a discussion with him on how actually the remap would work for the Laura and his insistance that post remap I should use only premium diesel (which would have higher cetane count as per him), closed the deal for me in the -ve and I backed out. The logic given just didn't make sense though it would have seemed logical for a petrol vehicle.

That said there are others who do remap car without insisting on using premium diesel as the peformance edge then claim and give is based on other parameters. I would go with one of them at a later stage.
Hi ACM, What kind of remapping are we talking about here ? Akin to the Pete's Box type ?
Still very curious to know and get to the bottom of what really happens when the additive laden fuel reaches the FI nozzles and beyond in a CR engine and what really happens after that which leads to the smoke etc. Reasons for smoke are of course plenty - unburnt particles/fuel, EGR issues etc
Now the funny part is, as mentioned earlier, my Scorp CRDe thrived on it ! No smoke, no choke and no nothing. So still scratching my scalp on this one.

Last edited by manson : 16th September 2011 at 14:13.
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Old 17th March 2011, 09:59   #161
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Default re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. A Month of Ownership & New Snaps!

Mar 17, 2011.
The Fleet Admiral & The Mega Traffic Jam !

And this morning The Fleet Admiral faced the first mega traffic jam, of his life, as he was sailing out of Thane. Thane seems to have become a real fort in the sense that getting in and out of the fort is a real pain in the unmentionables !

All these days it was smooth sailing in and out and I was rather apprehensive about a mega jam and how the T Fort would go about handling it.

In the Scorp, I literally used to ease in and out between the gargantuan trucks and other sundry denizens of the road without a worry in the world. I used to think it was rather compact. Fancy that !

And with the Admiral the apprehension was around its bulk - mainly the length. In the width department, it is a few CMs slimmer than the Scorp.

And from a distance when the crew manning the Crow's Nest spotted the jam and the message was sent to the bridge - my heart sank. And I thought to myself there goes my daily dream run and smooth coasting.

Battle stations called.

Sent required messages to the wheel house to proceed with utmost caution and to maintain orginal course and not to follow the chart from the Scorp's charthouse. Message was sent twice or more in case the crew (my reflexes) had a thought of mutiny on their minds.

Course was held for a few moments - when I received news from the XO (Executive Officer - you landlubbers !) that the crew had mutinied. They were following the Scorp's chart to the T without a worry in the world. Sitting on the bridge I glanced around apprehensively trying to make sense of the crews' moves. Gave up. And let the chaps do their jobs.

And lo and behold in a few moments Admiral sailed into the clear waters of EEH and it was full steam ahead ahoy !

And I realised I needn't have worried at all. Thick treacly traffic or not the TFort is a breeze to manoeuvre.

Thrust, slash, parry, jab all very do-able with the T Fort and in style. The steering response, the torque and brakes work well in unison not forgetting that the third gear is a gem in such situations.

What also helps greatly is the street presence of the behemoth.

Truly got the feeling of a capital battleship with 16 " main cannon turrets behaving like a Corvette !

On docking - looked back and gave the Admiral a silent salute !

Last edited by Guderian : 17th March 2011 at 10:12.
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Old 17th March 2011, 15:46   #162
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Default re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. A Month of Ownership & New Snaps!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Though the premium Petrols have a higher octane count, in case of premium diesels that is not the case, premium diesels in India DO NOT have a higher Cetane count, (the count remains the same as in normal Diesel) instead they have additives that clean the system including the injectors and prevent carbon deposits etc.

A Common Rail Engine does not take too kindly to additives, and they are best avoided. So NO Super Diesel, Hi Speed, Xtramile or Turbojet.
Hi, So a few moments ago I spoke to someone (Technical in the QC Function) at Toyota Kirloskar, Bangalore.

And hats off to him & Toyota - he read this piece here on TBHP and made the first contact. And cheers to T- BHP !!!

And this is what he clarified on the type of fuel to be used:
- Use the standard fuel or 'sada' diesel.

- There have been cases of 'Pilot Injector' jamming on the use of premium, additive laced, diesels from the PSUs and other oil companies.(Pilot injector - a separate line from the common rail - which helps in pre combustion of fuel, and thereby helps total combustion of the fuel.)

- The premium fuels also corrode the Catalytic Converters.

Thanks ACM/Red Liner for the initial tip off.

With this at least I am clear - I am not going to go anywhere near the premium fuels. That's one matter sorted out.

Phew !
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Old 17th March 2011, 16:39   #163
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Default re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. A Month of Ownership & New Snaps!

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Hi, So a few moments ago I spoke to someone (Technical in the QC Function) at Toyota Kirloskar, Bangalore.

And hats off to him & Toyota - he read this piece here on TBHP and made the first contact. And cheers to T- BHP !!!
This is amazing. So we have the manufacturers checking out T-BHP for all the ownership reports and feedback. That is good. It seems that T-BHP is being spied upon. But that would be helpful for both the customers as well as the car makers
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Old 17th March 2011, 16:42   #164
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Default re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. A Month of Ownership & New Snaps!

Really liked the proactive approach of Toyota calling you up and offering their matching offical position (that too so soon) . Other Vendors could take a leaf from this.
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Old 17th March 2011, 17:19   #165
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Default re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. A Month of Ownership & New Snaps!

This is why Toyota rocks. I dont see the need to have friends over at corporate or technical with this manufacturer to make yourself heard and get advice.

The gravity towards the dark side is becoming infinitely stronger to resist!
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