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Old 21st January 2013, 13:27   #1756
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

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Originally Posted by Guderian View Post
2. Not as yet. But have been nosing around. Bridgestone has some tough tyres - but not in the A/T range for the Fortuner - just the H/Ts or HLs. Checked BS when I drove in for fixing the puncture.
MRF Wanderers are around too but haven't heard much about them. Wonder if any of the folks here have any opinion/s on the MRF Wanderers. Shall be glad to receive a/any feedback.
To my mind the Yokos are ruled out, much to my sorrow.
BF Goodrich my first choice is not to be seen anywhere - even in Michelin shops. They are out of the country for the time being.

So still a wait and watch situation.
Hail General!

Frohes Neues! (Happy new year)

Been a while, Hence, thought will do a carrier landing to keep my licence valid! Have been keeping an eye on Admiral's proceedings through satellites and I managed to visit admiral's dock in December but trip was too short, hence couldn't catch up or inform. Nice to see the Admiral running spic and span.

My suggestion for tyres - Continental A/T.
http://www.conti-online.com/generato...einsatz_en.pdf

is there no Goodyear or BF Goodrich available in Mum?

As from the people using MRF Wanderers, I have so far heard good reviews only. (Its running on your Ex-General's brother's wife's uncle's son (ala. scorpio) and on a beast, which helps in reclaiming life)

Is there any specific reason why you are avoiding Yoko's? (is it due to the famous weak side-walls?)

Last edited by AlphaKilo : 21st January 2013 at 13:31.
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Old 21st January 2013, 18:27   #1757
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

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Originally Posted by Guderian View Post
1. Hopefully much more than that (touch wood !). Looking at something like 20K KMs+. With Manuuj's tyre having lasted for about 75K KMs - I assume can hope for this, if all goes well.

2. Not as yet. But have been nosing around. Bridgestone has some tough tyres - but not in the A/T range for the Fortuner - just the H/Ts or HLs. Checked BS when I drove in for fixing the puncture.
MRF Wanderers are around too but haven't heard much about them. Wonder if any of the folks here have any opinion/s on the MRF Wanderers. Shall be glad to receive a/any feedback.
To my mind the Yokos are ruled out, much to my sorrow.
BF Goodrich my first choice is not to be seen anywhere - even in Michelin shops. They are out of the country for the time being.

So still a wait and watch situation.
Why are you ruling out the Geolanders ?? A friend has had them since day one & has had no issues what so ever with the Yokos
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Old 21st January 2013, 19:05   #1758
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

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Why are you ruling out the Geolanders ?? A friend has had them since day one & has had no issues what so ever with the Yokos
Seeing many experiences here, it can be safely said that Geolandar A/Ts have a weak sidewall and are prone to cuts which can be dangerous. Yoko makes some brilliant tires, but surprising that they can continue making this inspite of its problems.
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Old 21st January 2013, 19:12   #1759
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

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Seeing many experiences here, it can be safely said that Geolandar A/Ts have a weak sidewall and are prone to cuts which can be dangerous. Yoko makes some brilliant tires, but surprising that they can continue making this inspite of its problems.

Surprising, as both of my Pajeros ran those & went upto Leh- Ladakh without any hitch, not a single puncture in the time that I had them...

I guess it may be a one off, but any which way, I was just curious.

Thanks for the input Akshay
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Old 22nd January 2013, 09:31   #1760
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

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Originally Posted by AlphaKilo View Post

1.Frohes Neues! (Happy new year)
Been a while, Hence, thought will do a carrier landing to keep my licence valid!
There you are Flyboy !
Danke ! And likewise to you.
I don't think the Contis are available in R17s round these parts...

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Originally Posted by Ricky_63 View Post
Why are you ruling out the Geolanders ?? A friend has had them since day one & has had no issues what so ever with the Yokos
It's been a long time Ricky !

Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
Seeing many experiences here, it can be safely said that Geolandar A/Ts have a weak sidewall and are prone to cuts which can be dangerous. Yoko makes some brilliant tires, but surprising that they can continue making this inspite of its problems.
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Originally Posted by Ricky_63 View Post
Surprising, as both of my Pajeros ran those & went upto Leh- Ladakh without any hitch, not a single puncture in the time that I had them...

I guess it may be a one off, but any which way, I was just curious.

Thanks for the input Akshay
And now to the issue of tyres.
As mentioned a few posts ago - I had Yoko Geos on my Scorpio CRDe for almost 2 years and had changed 2 tyres after a single event blowout and a major repair work on the third after yet another incident. All tyres damaged due to metallic objects lightly impacting the sidewall. Any other tyre would have brushed the objects aside. But the Yokos had to get emotional about the metal objects lying on the road and burst their hearts out.
Been repeatedly mentioning this weakness to the honchos/friends I know in the company but of no avail I guess. I had chatted up with one of their Senior R&D chaps as well on this- who in turn gave some great insights on tyres and characteristics.
The tyres are otherwise superb - the grip, wet road characteristics, rubber quality (though soft) and therefore the comfortable ride quality etc. Even the company is a great one to deal with - responsive and caring etc.
I still remember that late night when the two tyres on the Scorp blew out - the RM organised the two tyres and had it installed almost close to midnight at one of the dealers who was asked to stay back till I reached there with the two wheels and sent back with me boys and new tyres to install it on the Scorp - stranded on a Godforsaken road in Mumbai and I paid the dealer days later.

That was quite a night - with my good friend HVK and his Scorp lending a hand to move the wheels around and waiting with me till the job was done.

But then for the cities we live in and the places we go to - strong sidewalls are a must I guess !

Last edited by Guderian : 22nd January 2013 at 09:56.
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Old 22nd January 2013, 10:09   #1761
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

Ya it has been a long time indeed :-)

Ok I understand - if you have gone thru that experience I can totally understand your reservation !


Cheers
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Old 22nd January 2013, 10:32   #1762
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

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...I can totally understand your reservation !
And Ricky - I am fervently hoping, that between now and the time that I finally go in for new tyres for Admiral (not really sure by when though), Yoko would come out with Geos that would have reinforced sidewalls.
If they do that then they have a killer product for these parts !
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Old 25th January 2013, 19:12   #1763
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

Guten Abend Herr General! (Good evening Mr. General),

The new Yokohama Geolandar A/T-S All Terrain Tyres come equipped with "Rim Protector Bar (RPB) and an extra Sidewall Protector Bar (SPB) to prevent damage to sidewalls".

It is also available in the 265/65 R17H.

http://www.yokohama.co.za/Offroad_GeoAT.htm

I know it is a South African website link, but I'm sure you'll be able to find a set of A/T-S in India too.
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Old 28th January 2013, 11:25   #1764
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

A quick update...

Admiral has been totally on city/coastal duties of late.
Hasn't sailed even a meter on the high seas for long.

When Admiral was gulping down his magic potion yesterday (A guy of his size should actually be Obelix who is never given the magic potion - because he fell into a cauldron of it when he was a baby !):
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And the odo read this at that point of time:
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On glancing at the MID, I realised that Admiral had returned the best ever FE figure for city sailing.
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So the recent spell of cool/cold weather and easy driving seems to have done wonders for the engine.

The above MID figure was over this distance sailed in the city:
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And the range left (distance to empty) at this point:
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So giving the ol' chap a total range of 842 KMs on a tank full in the city.
Not too bad I'd say !


Quote:
Originally Posted by aveoman19 View Post
The new Yokohama Geolandar A/T-S All Terrain Tyres come equipped with "Rim Protector Bar (RPB) and an extra Sidewall Protector Bar (SPB) to prevent damage to sidewalls".
Thanks for the input/s aveoman19.
I checked this with my chums in Yoko India, on the weekend - they do not have these features in the Geos sold in India. This is a specific adaptation for the African markets.
But yeah - hope they plug in these features for the Geos being sold in India soon !

Last edited by Guderian : 28th January 2013 at 11:31.
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Old 29th January 2013, 15:57   #1765
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

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Originally Posted by Guderian View Post
A quick update...

Admiral has been totally on city/coastal duties of late.
Hasn't sailed even a meter on the high seas for long.

When Admiral was gulping down his magic potion yesterday (A guy of his size should actually be Obelix who is never given the magic potion - because he fell into a cauldron of it when he was a baby !):

Thanks for the input/s aveoman19.
I checked this with my chums in Yoko India, on the weekend - they do not have these features in the Geos sold in India. This is a specific adaptation for the African markets.
But yeah - hope they plug in these features for the Geos being sold in India soon !
How is Obelix for a name then Herr General?? (since you hated "Yeti" so much) I think it may be rather apt. The indestructible unbeatable Obelix!!

Too bad about the Indian spec Yokos i say. Even the South African Fortuner is better equipped i heard with diff locks for rear also.

Wonder why this step-motherly treatment..
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Old 30th January 2013, 09:42   #1766
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

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1. How is Obelix for a name then Herr General??

2. Too bad about the Indian spec Yokos i say. Even the South African Fortuner is better equipped i heard with diff locks for rear also.

3. Wonder why this step-motherly treatment.
2. What the Yoko chaps told me was that each territory is allowed to (sort of) adapt the products to their local requirements.
And I presume with the nature of terrain and the real good/tough usage of the 4X4s in SA/Africa they have no option but to have stronger sidewalls on the ATs or else be thrown out of the markets there.
In India I presume they know for sure that 99% of the ATs are used on highways only and the odd nut cases who take them to wild areas and have their innards ripped don't just figure in their calculations. And such additions do cost fair amount of money pushing up the selling prices - which they may be wary to do.
What they fail to imagine is that our urban landscape and roads are equally rough as the wilds of the African continent and there are plenty of ripped sidewalls here too.
Perhaps with the periodic sorry sidewall stories coming in Yoko might just do something to toughen the sidewalls on their ATs.

3. Diff locks ? Even Toyota knows where 99% of the Fortuners in India are used. So why bother ?

1. Obelix - Sounds like a great name. He's man after my own heart !
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Old 12th February 2013, 19:10   #1767
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

Admiral's Insurance - Year III.

It's a sheer coincidence but the hunt ended today exactly one month after it began.

On Jan 12, 2013 when I went to the ASC for the 35K service went to the insurance section and asked them to let me have the insurance proposals for year III. The Y-II insurance was coming to an end in the 3rd week of Feb.
I wanted to continue with Bharati -Axa (who were the insurers for the first 2 years) and had paid Rs.26,020 for the Y-II policy for an IDV of Rs. 17.12 Ls.

I wanted a simple insurance. Basic comprehensive + Zero Depreciation policy as before.As usual came the first set of outlandish proposals which were - Basic Apprehensive+Zero Bank Balance types.

The dealer first came up with B-Axa's proposal which was like an axe swung at me. Rs 42,242...mind rebelled against paying this amount much more than last year. I was told it was due to the zero dep. premium increasing as the vehicle aged. Mind rebelled...rebelliously. Admiral and aged -nevaaah !

This then sounded the bugle - a call to arms. I knew I had a battle at hand and had to get serious or else would end up bleeding from the nose.
Along with the Axe...sorry Axa, was also sent a Toyota Protect Insurance (excuse me, but when did Toyota get into their own insurance business ?) which quoted Rs. 40,016. Both proposals had an IDV at Rs.16.12 Ls. This too was not very acceptable. Too low an IDV for Admiral who is basically...ummm... priceless.

Anyway started my negotiations with the dealer's insurance team and got him to focus on B-Axa - went on and on. The final quote he came up was for Rs 40,727. And this was with a 50% NCB and about 40% additional discount. Seeing no solution went to the company directly hoping for deliverance and the age old attempt to cut out the middleman.
They came back grandly with a quote of Rs. 51K and no going down further. Laughed and cried hysterically. Frankly tried to understand as to what was wrong with their thinking ! No answers.

Meanwhile got in touch with ICICI- Lombard and those street smart guys stuck on to me like limpets. Must give it to them for latching on hard. Their final offer for almost the same kind of offering was Rs 31,633. But had heard quite a few horror stories about their claim settlements and all kinds of hany panky stuff. So was a little wary about them. Though I must say that the LoH's car is insured with them and two claims over the last two years were dealt with satisfactorily (Two claims in two years ? Yeah and the LOH gets upset when I guffaw while talking about her driving habits with friends !).

Anyway coming back to the story.

The ping pong game went on and on (even the Chinese would have got fatigued I tell you) till yesterday when the ASC insurance dealer mentioned very quietly about Tata-AIG and sent me a proposal. Asked him as to why he hadn't mentioned about it earlier and he mumbled something about me being B-Axa fixated. The quote spoke about Rs. 28,827 for an IDV of 16.12Ls. By now the dealer chap was truly tired and slowly losing interest. And I felt sorry for him as well.

Decided to go to the Tata-AIG website which informed me that the IDV of my vehicle should be Rs. 18.36Ls and threw up a quote of some Rs 34K. IDV as per regulations calculated on current vehicle value minus depreciation (30% I guess). Left a message asking someone to get in touch with me. Very quickly someone did. And thankfully it was a 'pucca' Executive of the company and not a stumbling, fumbling, irritating DSA chap. Very professional, very matter of factly and clear in communication and expectation management. Felt good interacting with him.

Checked first whether Tata-AIG has cashless facility with Toyota garages. Confirmed. Was sent the details of the garages on mail.

Negotiated and it came down to Rs 31,894 for an IDV of 18.36Ls. And another round of 'do something about it my friend' discussions to arrive at the final figure of Rs 28,795. All on the phone.

Meanwhile talked to a friend and a fellow TBHPian who has been active on the insurance threads - ghodlur -and got his thumbs up for Tata-AIG in terms of perceptions and general feel. Thanks ghodlur.

Late last evening sent my old policy to the Tata AIG Executive. And this morning he organised a call with his verifier who confirmed all the details and helped me to pay the amount through IVR using my credit card.
And in a couple of hours received the soft copy of the policy. Hardcopy is on its way - should reach me in a week's time.

The details (all figures in Rs.):
IDV - 18.36 Ls
Total premium - 28,795.
Package details:
- 55% discount on basic premium.
- 50% NCB.
- Personal accident cover - 2L /driver cover/7 passengers covered for 1L each.
Pearl Plan Add Ons:
- Zero depreciation reimbursement (limited to 2 claims during the policy period).
- Loss of personal belongings cover.
- Emergency hotel and transport charges cover.
- Key loss/replacement cover.
- NCB protection if plastic, rubber, fiber & glass parts are repaired and not replaced.

Zero dep officially is only for 3 years. But can be considered for 4th & 5th year if the assessors like your face (buying a tube of F & Lovely this evening) and claim record.

What I liked about the policy:
- IDV increased.
- Fairly 'close to last year' premium.
- Some add ons.

What I liked about the interactions with Tata-AIG team:
- User friendly website.
- Professional Executives - calm and poised.
- Clear in communication and no fibbing. Very clear in explanations and expectation management to the point of irritation (!) - to ensure that you have no misconception of the benefits that could lead to fist cuffs later.
- Quick on getting back with responses.
- Comfort in interactions and ease of processes.

Hope the pleasant experience continues though I pray - may I never use the policy benefits by the Grace of God (touchwood !).

And so that was that...

Last edited by Guderian : 12th February 2013 at 19:16.
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Old 12th February 2013, 20:52   #1768
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

Now the fun begins. The game is called Treasure Hunt. Every year you will need to figure out a new Insurance company to keep the premium rate low. The first year the premium is made artificially low as all the sales guys seem to have a lot of discretionary discount quota over and above other things. It's the second year when the premium shoots up as all those magic heads for discounts vanish. And there begins the next year's hunt for a new insurer. Experience speaks...
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Old 13th February 2013, 10:56   #1769
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

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Now the fun begins. The game is called Treasure Hunt...
It's a hunt - complicated by our desires.

What comes to my mind is that there is no issue as such with the basic policy. Which keeps going down every year because of the IDV dropping. Unless of course the insurance companies ratchet up the base based on a clearance from the IRDA. For example in most of the quotes on the basic comprehensive policy the amounts ranged from Rs.16-17 K with the NCB factored and some discount. If I were to negotiate I think could have pegged it at say Rs. 14-15K. I don't think the discounts in the Executives hand goes down much as such in the Y-II & III onwards. The % discount could range from 30-60%. Keeping that in mind helps. The Exec has some % and then above him couple of levels have their own discretionary %s. How much can you sweetly squeeze determines the final discount.

Where the battle starts is on the add ons. Zero dep is wildly variant across the companies - from 6K to 12K for Y-III for the Fortuner of Admiral's vintage as I found. Also are the other 'schemes' - must say that they are quite a set of schemes ! Not sure how many ever use them or the real usefulness - though it feels good to have. Maybe as someone mentioned it could really click in if there a real emergency. But one needs to give a hard look at its usefulness before opting for it. For example in case of a driver who never steps outside the city it would be practically pointless to pick up the cover Emergency Accomodation and Transportation to base location. The company wouldn't pay anything if the emergency has taken place at the base location. And it is also made delightfully difficult by a clause that you can't pick and choose the offerings - you have to go by the Gold, Pearl, Silver and all other fancy metals including Titanium and Platinium plans - with metals varying with the companies. Each one having something that you don't want and want.
Here the add ons add quite a bit to the total package. Another factor is that as the vehicle ages the zero dep too goes up quite a bit. And zero dep doesn't come as a standalone add on. It comes as a package along with some other add ons.
Was almost tempted to go in only for the basic comprehensive package and the rest be damned. But then decided to persist with the zero dep when Tata AIG gave me the package with a higher IDV.
Next year let's see - may be just comprehensive.
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Old 13th February 2013, 11:57   #1770
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

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And it is also made delightfully difficult by a clause that you can't pick and choose the offerings - you have to go by the Gold, Pearl, Silver and all other fancy metals including Titanium and Platinium plans - with metals varying with the companies. Each one having something that you don't want and want.
With Tata AIG you can negotiate what you want. I have a policy with basic own damage + 0 dep + NCB protection and without anything else mentioned in their plans (gold/pearl etc) for last 2 years. You just need to negotiate.
And like in your case, I too bought it over phone from Tata AIG executives directly.
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