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Old 22nd April 2011, 15:58   #436
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

To be honest the Fortuner is the first Toyota product I actually Love. Hated them for launching the Qualis in India, but it sold like hot cakes and was a success despite it being a hand me down from Indonesia. I started respecting them when they launched the Innova which was in sync with the international market although it was not something I could visualize myself in.
Had the Fortuner been launched long ago when I was waiting for it (2007 ish) I might have snapped one up but with Mahindra's global Suv coming along, it is a wait and watch, from the spyshots and previews it seems very promising, I know the quality wont be as close as Toyota but they are fairly acceptable especially once the price is considered.
Plus I have just upgraded from a leaf sprung CRDe to a 4wd Mhawk. Report will be up soon, held back due to my house arrest thanks to torn ankle ligaments, which has ruined my entire Vacation (Marine Engineer). Had it not been for my ankle the vehicle would have crossed the 10,000 km mark within 45 days of ownership, but I guess Fate had other plans for me.
Coming back to cars, I will be looking for my Swift replacement towards the end of next year and the Global SUV is a firm favorite at the moment. Need 2 big cars so that my father and I don't keep fighting over the keys, plus if a small one is needed Tata Nano Zindabad, but I think my dad and I might continue fighting for the Nano's keys then since we both have a soft spot for it and the obvious advantages it has in Mumbai.
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Old 22nd April 2011, 21:44   #437
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Off Roadie View Post
To be honest the Fortuner is the first Toyota product I actually Love. Hated them for launching the Qualis in India, but it sold like hot cakes and was a success despite it being a hand me down from Indonesia. I started respecting them when they launched the Innova which was in sync with the international market although it was not something I could visualize myself in.
Had the Fortuner been launched long ago when I was waiting for it (2007 ish) I might have snapped one up but with Mahindra's global Suv coming along, it is a wait and watch, from the spyshots and previews it seems very promising, I know the quality wont be as close as Toyota but they are fairly acceptable especially once the price is considered.
Plus I have just upgraded from a leaf sprung CRDe to a 4wd Mhawk. Report will be up soon, held back due to my house arrest thanks to torn ankle ligaments, which has ruined my entire Vacation (Marine Engineer). Had it not been for my ankle the vehicle would have crossed the 10,000 km mark within 45 days of ownership, but I guess Fate had other plans for me.
Coming back to cars, I will be looking for my Swift replacement towards the end of next year and the Global SUV is a firm favorite at the moment. Need 2 big cars so that my father and I don't keep fighting over the keys, plus if a small one is needed Tata Nano Zindabad, but I think my dad and I might continue fighting for the Nano's keys then since we both have a soft spot for it and the obvious advantages it has in Mumbai.
Hi Rohan,
Firstly, terribly sorry to hear about your damaged ankle ligaments. I hope the ankle mends well and soon !

Your post brings back so many fond memories of my old ride, the leaf sprung Sept 2005 Scorp CRDe, Guderian ! Loved it to death till I sold it in Feb this year. I still do believe that those first lot of Scorp CRDes were really built tough. The engine, the body, the paint work - everything was superb. Tough, real tough. I truly find the current MHaHas very flimsy and tin-ny. Very light on the feel. Them old CRDes were the real iron horses with cast iron engines and what not - not to forget that engine growl which was worth dying for...Good ol' Guderian could have certainly gone on for another 10 years, nary a peep of opposition from any part, but my lust for the TFort and something new got the better of me.

About the W201, the M&M code name for the W Class SUV, the wait is going to be long I guess. I was waiting from 2009 and gave up. Even now it's not very clear as to when it will pop out of the stables.
Even though many reports are circulating of the release mostly from someone who is a very close friend of someone who has a dog which shares the same poop walk time with someone who also has a dog and knows someone whose son in law's friend works in M&M etc !

And confidential whispers say last quarter this year, first quarter next year, this year next quarter, last year this quarter, this Diwali multiplied by next Christmas divided by Dussera year after, are the probable dates of release.

And then of course after the launch one has to wait for about 6 months till all the bugs are sorted out and then go ahead with the W201.

Incidentally is your new MHaHa a 4X4 ?

Have fun and once again MoMs - Man of the Mighty Seas - take care of that ankle, avoid any rolling, pitching and yawing (!) and get back to the roads real quick !

Last edited by Guderian : 22nd April 2011 at 21:55.
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Old 23rd April 2011, 11:02   #438
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

Since we are a little on the T-Fort ~ Scorp topic ~ allow me.
Yesterday while driving through the city. Wife right next to me.
We were chanced upon a sighting, an imposing T-Fort and a Nimble mhawk Scorp parked parallel to the curb giving us a good view. So i took the liberty to ask my wife what she thought of them. Which should we buy.
So here's my wife's wise reply.
If you are earning in dollars go for the T-Fort ~ else if you are earning Rs. Stick to your desi Scorp.
Jaw dropped i didnt know what to do. Just shut up and drove.
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Old 23rd April 2011, 11:26   #439
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

Ok, a typical city slicker type nerdy question. Which one has a more bouncy ride? T. Fort or Scorpio.

Few minutes back checked out @Sudarshan's post and pictures.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ex...scussions.html (2011 Pune OTR season: Plans & discussions)

For such kind of OTR adventures, comfort is probably the least priority. Still the question..
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Old 23rd April 2011, 12:59   #440
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
Since we are a little on the T-Fort ~ Scorp topic ~ allow me.
Yesterday while driving through the city. Wife right next to me.
We were chanced upon a sighting, an imposing T-Fort and a Nimble mhawk Scorp parked parallel to the curb giving us a good view. So i took the liberty to ask my wife what she thought of them. Which should we buy.
So here's my wife's wise reply.
If you are earning in dollars go for the T-Fort ~ else if you are earning Rs. Stick to your desi Scorp.
Jaw dropped i didnt know what to do. Just shut up and drove.
Hi mdsaab,
Hate crossing swords with a lady - for the end of the man who crosses their path is always assured...!

But I guess one needs to be bold and state what one should and scamper away as quickly as possible - so here goes...

If it is an issue of Rs Vs $s for the reason of initial capital cost/s I'd agree, but if it is a case of regular maintenance costs then it may not be entirely correct as I have seen reports here and elsewhere of low costs on maintenance of the TFort and my innate feeling that the Scorp and TFort are around the same level as far as the basic cost of maintenance is concerned. However let me tell you from experience that due to quality issues the Scorp has a very high rate of indivudual parts/components failure, while the vehicle is basically tough and abuse friendly. Most of these parts are outsourced parts.

Luckily for me I had a special 5 year warranty on Guderian from M&M (purchased it in 2005 which was the 60 year of M&M and hence the 60 month warranty) and had replaced quite a few parts. Some of the weakest parts were the clutch components - master and slave cylinders, clutch release bearings; brake components - brake cylinders, window winder motors etc. And with the new Scorps there are far more electronic gizmos on board especially on the top end Vlx and I am uncomfortable having too much of such stuff on board. In Indian conditions of heat and dust all these toys have a very short life. Have heard stories already of the TPMS packing up or throwing up wrong info as well as of other electronic components like those controlling cruise control. Most of them are Chinese components.

Now these are not mission critical components and the vehicle wouldn't come to a dead halt without them. But still.....!

And this is where I love the TFort - other than the basics there is not a single unwanted or fancy gizmo, to my eye and no electronic wizardy for driving either. Everything is manual including the lever operated transfer case. A very functional vehicle it is to a point of being rather rudimentary. Possibly like the M-Paj.
Just love it the way it is. For simply the love of driving its the TFort.

And here I am not even venturing into the quality of the two ASCs - which requires a different discussion altogether and I could earn my Doctorate writing a thesis on it !

Quote:
Originally Posted by dot View Post
Ok, a typical city slicker type nerdy question. Which one has a more bouncy ride? T. Fort or Scorpio.

Few minutes back checked out @Sudarshan's post and pictures.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ex...scussions.html (2011 Pune OTR season: Plans & discussions)

For such kind of OTR adventures, comfort is probably the least priority. Still the question..
Hi Dot,
To my mind - as I had a leafspring Scorp CRDe, the Scorp was very bouncy and boat like. Having driven, a few times, the new MHaHas as well, I do find a certain boat like characteristic in it as well despite the later multilink rear suspension designed by Lotus Corp.
To my mind and OK...well...importantly backside too (which is the most experienced anatomical portion of the body as far as ride quality is concerned !) the T Fort has a far more firmer and steadier ride. On tarmac and off it as well.

Last edited by Guderian : 23rd April 2011 at 13:19.
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Old 23rd April 2011, 15:11   #441
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

The impetus of my interest to know was due to two conversations which occurred last night. One, a conversation with @mdsaab and two, another conversation with my uncle.

Uncle owns an Outlander. He called to say (among other things) that the ride is very bumpy.

@mdsaab and me were discussing SUVs and in his experience the Endy is quite bumpy too.

My personal experience with my Gypsy was that it was also very very bumpy. In fact so bumpy that several girls had once refused my offer to take them somewhere in my Gypsy. The allegation was that I drive very horribly. How do you explain to giggly girls that SUV are like that only.

Anyways, coming back to SUVs. It is indeed rare to find a SUV that has a firm ride and yet an off-roader. Any idea why SUVs are bumpy in the first place?
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Old 23rd April 2011, 15:20   #442
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. A Month of Ownership & New Snaps

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Originally Posted by Guderian View Post
Hi Amit,
Slow, winding response to a QQ !

The tyre inflator is branded Link from your city, Pune,
which was sourced for me by my good friend from Pune who is KaiserKetkar here.
Here is the contact:

Mr. Sawkar
275, Shaniwar Peth, Omkareshwar Chowk
Pune, Maharashtra - 411 030, India
Telephone: +(91)-(20)-24495739/ 24455739
@Guderian - Sorry to take this discussion off topic in the midst of the T-Fort/Scorp posts. But had to inform you that i finally got the digital tyre inflator from the same place. It cost me Rs.2475 (Rs.2200 + 12.5% Tax). Nothing much has changed in it since you purchased it so not posting any snaps.

When i reached the place the lady sitting at the desk asked me politely from where did you come to know of our product. I told her one freind in Thane is using it. I thought she was surprised on hearing that the product has reached Thane and casusally asked me the name. I was just about to reply that the person's name is Guderian Then better sense prevailed and i changed the topic to ask her about the working of the device.

We are so used to T-BHP handles that sometimes it becomes our second identity.

Just using the Thanks button on the post would not have done justice. Hence went into the details. Thank you for providing the info. Would be putting the device to use first thing in the morning. I think now i can say good bye to the faulty and un reliable pressure gauges at the petrol pumps.
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Old 23rd April 2011, 16:48   #443
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

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Originally Posted by dot View Post
1. In fact so bumpy that several girls had once refused my offer to take them somewhere in my Gypsy.

2. Any idea why SUVs are bumpy in the first place?
1. Ahem...it'll be interesting to know what caused that 'bumpiness' among the bevy of girls !

2. Now I am not sure what exactly is the definition of bumpy as per you ? Is it like bouncy/boat like like a Scorpio ? Or rough like the Endy ?
The earlier Scorpios had a bouncy, boat like ride due to the leaf springs and high center of gravity. In some the stiff suspension can lead to it. Endy I think still has rear leaf spring suspension and a stiff suspension. To answer your Q it could be due to stiff suspension, high CG (the swaying) and in some which have it - body on ladder construction as compared to monocoque cars/soft roaders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitwlele View Post
@Guderian - Sorry to take this discussion off topic in the midst of the T-Fort/Scorp posts. But had to inform you that i finally got the digital tyre inflator from the same place. It cost me Rs.2475 (Rs.2200 + 12.5% Tax). Nothing much has changed in it since you purchased it so not posting any snaps.

When i reached the place the lady sitting at the desk asked me politely from where did you come to know of our product. I told her one freind in Thane is using it. I thought she was surprised on hearing that the product has reached Thane and casusally asked me the name. I was just about to reply that the person's name is Guderian Then better sense prevailed and i changed the topic to ask her about the working of the device.

We are so used to T-BHP handles that sometimes it becomes our second identity.

Just using the Thanks button on the post would not have done justice. Hence went into the details. Thank you for providing the info. Would be putting the device to use first thing in the morning. I think now i can say good bye to the faulty and un reliable pressure gauges at the petrol pumps.
Hi Amit, Glad to have been of some help. It is of course rather simple to operate.
Do let us know how the 'first experience' went off.....!
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Old 23rd April 2011, 18:44   #444
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

@ Guderian
I have a 2011 built VLX 4wd, got delivery in early March. Have a lot to wrtie about it and will hold that for my ownership report, intend to overload it with pics and points instead of lengthy descriptions. Completely agree on the ruggedness factor between the good old CRDe and the new Hawk but there has been a lot of ergonomic improvements
As I mentioned I intend to swap the Swift next year mid/end so can wait for W201 to come out and get its initial bugs if any sorted.
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Old 23rd April 2011, 21:17   #445
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guderian View Post
1. Ahem...it'll be interesting to know what caused that 'bumpiness'
Back then my reputation as a driver (car driver that is) was at stake and here you are making a funny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guderian View Post
2. Now I am not sure what exactly is the definition of bumpy as per you ? Is it like bouncy/boat like like a Scorpio ? Or rough like the Endy ?
I think you answered my question. By bumpy I had meant bouncy.
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Old 24th April 2011, 10:40   #446
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

I completely agree with you here, The T-Fort is definately a robust vehicle.
and IMO the after sales experience will be much better too.
But the only head scratching is the Rs. 10 lakh price difference.
With the scorp i will get an Auto box too, though not sure how good it is.
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Old 24th April 2011, 13:58   #447
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Originally Posted by Off Roadie View Post
Have a lot to wrtie about it and will hold that for my ownership report, intend to overload it with pics and points instead of lengthy descriptions.
Hi Rohan, That'll be one thread and set of snaps I'll be eagerly awaiting !

Quote:
Originally Posted by dot View Post
Back then my reputation as a driver (car driver that is) was at stake and here you are making a funny.
Hi dot, Interesting choice of words there - reputation, driver (though you attempted to clarify - but as they say some clarifications lead to more suspicions !) and 'stake'. Hmm - some college days those ! Or the bevy of girls would have misunderstood your communication to have copied your message as - that you were a Gypsy and that you wanted them to come to your tent where you would show them places they have never seen to drive away the blues without any bumpiness or some such thing.
Bevies of girls and college days do bring on a host of fond memories of my college days and resultant Sunday afternoons ! But that's for another day...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
I completely agree with you here, The T-Fort is definately a robust vehicle.
and IMO the after sales experience will be much better too.
But the only head scratching is the Rs. 10 lakh price difference.
With the scorp i will get an Auto box too, though not sure how good it is.
Hi mdsaab - I wouldn't touch a Scorp A/T 4X4.
A friend of mine had it (4X4 AT Vlx) ans knocked it off within 6 months for a manual Scorp 4X4. I had driven it on a mild off road terrain when it was being broken/running in ouple of times
Reasons for the disposal ?
1.The torque converter messes up the pick up and well...the torque - on the ground. It felt like a wet rag !

2. Some owners had reported issues with the AT. So had my friend. Oil which was supposed to last for 60K KMs in the sealed unit had to be changed immediately because of noise and some other glitch. I don't think M&M has quite got a hang of the AT boxes as yet, to be frank.

3. I am not so sure how well the ASCs' grease monkeys are trained to handle AT boxes.

I for one would be very happy with a manual box on the Scorp and esp with a 4X4 where at times all the torque is desperately needed !
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Old 24th April 2011, 17:29   #448
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

Sunday ramblings after a hearty Easter lunch (could not sleep thanks to the fluttering chickens in the tummy and my son deciding that dad can be a good horse)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Guderian View Post
some college days those !

- that you were a Gypsy and that you wanted them to come to your tent where you would show them places they have never seen to drive away the blues without any bumpiness or some such thing.

Bevies of girls and college days do bring on a host of fond memories of my college days and resultant Sunday afternoons ! But that's for another day...
Ha. I wish.

But the Gypsy had one effect though, but not on girls but on boys. Invariably boys, men including bus and truck drivers would be excited at seeing a fellow driving an open air Gypsy with the windshield down (no funny here). A nod, or thumbs up or a smile would follow.

When we were younger and rather foolish, we felt the need of a machine to impress the fairer folks. Be it a better bicycle, better bike or a four wheeler. Maybe the need to demonstrate freedom. Why is it that when a certain school bus arrives inside our society, boys are around on their Pulsars or Hunks or Unicorns? Why not on their feet?

Then when wisdom comes, freedom takes a different meaning. It becomes clear that the machine is not for anyone else but for thyself.

But, ya, some college days.

Last edited by dot : 24th April 2011 at 17:31.
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Old 24th April 2011, 17:34   #449
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

Sunday Smorgasbord ! April 24, 2011.


Another long and delightful Sunday morning with the Fleet Admiral.
Had an NTSB investigation completed, a sales call completed, couple of DiYs completed and an observation or two made.

And while completing all these actions time flew and suddenly I realised that I had spent four and a half hours with around or near the Admiral. From 0630 to 1030 hrs. And for good reasons too.

NTSB investigation ? Like those US plane crash investigations ? Yup...
While carrying out my routine activities today had to complete a fire investigation on a Ford Figo, when my neighbour (who also a good friend) came down with his LoH. Read about it here:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...figo-fire.html (FFoF ! Or Ford Figo on Fire...)

This investigation almost took 30 minutes.

Sales Call ?

Again while continuing with my routine chores yet another building resident who I had sort of had seen around, but was never introduced to or whatever, came upto me and asked me chaste Marathi whether the TFort was my own vehicle ! Huh ? Did he think I would clean someone else's vehicle ? Or that I brought home to park my sahib's vehicle for the night, cleaned it every morning and then every morning took it to my sahib's house for my driverly responsibilities ? I almost thought of a quip when I realised that I had a lot of actions to be yet completed and so answered in affirmative that it indeed was a result of my own blood and guts (Sorry General Patton !). Big, big mistake !

When the bloke realised that it indeed was my own vehicle (though he eyed me in my ragged workwear with some doubts) there began a volley of Q's about the TFort. Had to take him on a journey through the price list, accessories, advantages of a SUV, working of the gears (HH/HL/LL/yell, yell), interiors, engine...by now I was getting a little tickle in the stomach and was almost ready to face the ultimate query of a sales call. But it went on to another topic. 30 minutes flew past. I again got the feeling that the ultimate Q was coming - 'How about a test drive boss ?!!'

Thankfully it never came, but what came was worse - that he would come down again next Sunday and would I explain everything that I had explained to him, to his wife as well ?!!

I gently demurred and told him that I was possibly going to Swaziland next Sunday to study the mating habbits of Gibbons there.

And promised to give him the number of the dealer's FNSM instead who could explain to him and his wife (I insisted that he take her). And then realised that I would make an enemy for life in the FNSM, who now is a jolly good chum, if this bloke from the colony were to land up at the dealers. Got to think of a way out of the mess.

And then proceeded to complete a couple of DiYs.

1. Realised at some point, during the minor rattle arrest phase, that the bonnet bar (the rod that holds up the bonnet when you raise the bonnet and want it to remain raised when you remove your hand !) was too close to the body and could be rattling against it when Admiral sailed over rough patches. Note the arrow points in the second snap. Though there are no rattles now this could crop up.
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Had got me self two strips of self adhesive sponge pieces from the Maruti ASC last week when I had taken the LoH's Alto K10 for its second service.
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The sponge was stuck at the specific spots and now the bonnet bar/rod snugly sits in its slot.
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When all this was going on had a friendly visitor:
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2. After the last couple of mild off roading outings realised that the front fender and a small patch of the front left door had some minor scratches. Came from Admiral brushing against bushes and brambles.
Being silver coloured one truly had to strain ones eyes to spot it. But I knew it was there and that was irritating. Something had to be done. So I called up the GEM - Guru of External Manifestations ! Who else but Manuuj of the Sunday hide rub fame. He gave me instructions on the exact thing to be puchased and 'how to' on Friday afternoon. Friday evening saw me get these:
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The Formula 1 'Scratch Out' came for Rs. 300 and the F-1 'Car Wax' (polish) came for Rs. 330 after some minor haggling. Just 15 minutes of work saw all the scratches just simply vanish. And with simple clean soft cloth pieces. In the end the assembly of the Jopasu armaments and special forces were just not required for the battle:
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The Admiral truly looks resplendent in his silver uniform ! Not that he wasn't earlier.

Thank you GEM...Manuuj...you truly are a gem !

And a few observations from the engine bay. More and more I work on the engine bay more and more I see some gems of design.

The cutest and smallest of rubber bellows I have ever seen. This is for the cable to release the bonnet !
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And then I have been realising that in the TFort bay unlike other bays every little wire every little tube is moored firmly. Not a single wire or tube is left dangling or to the mercy of swaying motion of the vehicle. This of course is in comparision to my earlier vehicles. This adds to the robustness and the reliability of components and sub components. Some random shots showing the same:
The MAFS wirings secured on top of the air filter drum :
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A wire's journey secured:
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Wires from and to the Turbo:
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Secured steel tube carrying clutch oil to the slave cylinder:
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A general wire (!) in the battery area under arrest:
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And so on !

And finally a new stripe on the Admiral's epaulette. Thanks to Noops:
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Tally ho chaps ! Have a great week ahead.
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Old 24th April 2011, 19:51   #450
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

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And finally a new stripe on the Admiral's epaulette. Thanks to Noops:
Aren't stickers on number plates illegal? There was a drive here in Delhi against stickers on number plates, hence the query.
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