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Old 30th August 2011, 18:40   #1201
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

Hi Guderian

I change Gears at a very different rpms and speeds in the Aria compared to you. The Engines and the turbo charging is different but then driving styles too differ.

1st to 2nd - 20kmph -
2nd to 3rd - 40 kmph - some times stretch it to 60+
3rd to 4th - 65-80kmph - some times stretch it to 100 as well.
4th to 5th - 100 or 120+
Downward shifts
5th to 4th - 80
4th to 3rd - 45
3rd to 2nd - 25
2nd to Ist - below 5
The Fortuner has deeper grunt lower down while in the Aria to have real fun it is best to keep it upward of 1700 rpm so tend to shift at 2500-3500 rpms. The good bit is that it likes being given the stick.

Just a different way of doing things.
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Old 30th August 2011, 20:11   #1202
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

I feel that gear changing around 2000 RPM works best (one can go by feel/sound, need not look at the tacho). After changing, in the higher gear, one is around 1500 rpm, which is in the peak torque zone. Changing at a lower rpm probably will lead to better fuel efficiency, but I like staying in the peak torque zone (1400 rpm onwards)

Also for cruising, 2000 rpm works well, Any higher, the FE starts getting affected.

@ ACM: I guess you don't care much abut FE :-)

Last edited by nilanjanray : 30th August 2011 at 20:14.
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Old 30th August 2011, 21:47   #1203
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If one pays close attention, one could discreetly hear the turbo woosh, just when it starts, after 5 secs one can shift to the next gear.
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Old 30th August 2011, 22:22   #1204
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post

I change Gears at a very different rpms and speeds in the Aria compared to you. The Engines and the turbo charging is different but then driving styles too differ.
Just a different way of doing things.
ACM,you appear to shift pretty late. Yes,it is a different way of doing things but any advantages? How does it affect the FE?Does it make the ride smoother?
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Old 30th August 2011, 22:55   #1205
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guderian View Post
Hi r2i.,
As far as the 2nd and 3rd gears are concerned it did take me a while to get used to it as compared to my earlier ride the Scorp CRDe. I think you may be changing gears a little too early therby straining the engine in those gears. What I generally follow is to change the gears - 1st to 2nd at 20/25 KMPH, 2nd to 3rd at 30/35 KMPH and 3rd to 4th at 40/45 KMPH. I think the RPM should be around 1.2/1/5K in the gear you are moving out from when you change gears. Frankly I have stopped looking at the tacho these days and go purely by the feel. Maybe I'll have a look at it today and report back again.
A few corrections to the post above:
1. Gear changes occur at 1.5K - 1.7 K RPM.
2. 1st to 2nd gear - 10-15 KMPH

This after observing the evening drive which was a murder on the nerves. What should have taken me 1.5 hrs took me 2hrs and 45mns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post

I change Gears at a very different rpms and speeds in the Aria compared to you. The Engines and the turbo charging is different but then driving styles too differ.

1st to 2nd - 20kmph -
2nd to 3rd - 40 kmph - some times stretch it to 60+
3rd to 4th - 65-80kmph - some times stretch it to 100 as well.
4th to 5th - 100 or 120+
Downward shifts
5th to 4th - 80
4th to 3rd - 45
3rd to 2nd - 25
2nd to Ist - below 5
The Fortuner has deeper grunt lower down while in the Aria to have real fun it is best to keep it upward of 1700 rpm so tend to shift at 2500-3500 rpms. The good bit is that it likes being given the stick.

Just a different way of doing things.
Hi ACM,
Wow ! Not sure about the way the Aria behaves - but you must be really whipping the engine going by the above figures. And in Mumbai you must be perpetually in 2nd/3rd gear.
Thanks for sharing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nilanjanray View Post
I feel that gear changing around 2000 RPM works best (one can go by feel/sound, need not look at the tacho). After changing, in the higher gear, one is around 1500 rpm, which is in the peak torque zone. Changing at a lower rpm probably will lead to better fuel efficiency, but I like staying in the peak torque zone (1400 rpm onwards)

Also for cruising, 2000 rpm works well, Any higher, the FE starts getting affected.

@ ACM: I guess you don't care much abut FE :-)
Hi Nils,
Agree. Have changed the RPM figures slightly for changing gears bringing in close to your reco of 2K.
Actually if you change gears at too low a RPM level also eats into the FE figures as the engine is running inefficiently and of course the resultant deleterious impact on engine health. So best is the optimum RPM for gear changes (approx 1.7+K) and for cruising (2K).

Fifth gear, 80-100 KMPH at 2K RPM and empty roads ahead for 1000KMs through any territory - sheer bliss !
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Old 31st August 2011, 09:05   #1206
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
Hi Guderian

I change Gears at a very different rpms and speeds in the Aria compared to you. The Engines and the turbo charging is different but then driving styles too differ.

1st to 2nd - 20kmph -
2nd to 3rd - 40 kmph - some times stretch it to 60+
3rd to 4th - 65-80kmph - some times stretch it to 100 as well.
4th to 5th - 100 or 120+
Downward shifts
5th to 4th - 80
4th to 3rd - 45
3rd to 2nd - 25
2nd to Ist - below 5
The Fortuner has deeper grunt lower down while in the Aria to have real fun it is best to keep it upward of 1700 rpm so tend to shift at 2500-3500 rpms. The good bit is that it likes being given the stick.

Just a different way of doing things.
Wow ACM, these figures are a revelation. And I thought the TFort has taller gearing but this takes the cake. Will this not adversely affect the engine life too, besides the FE which others have mentioned, or has Tata used some special technology with the engine of the Aria?

I change to 5th at about 65-70kmph on the TFort.
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Old 31st August 2011, 12:28   #1207
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

This morning (Aug 31, 2011) precisely at 0731 hrs Admiral crossed the buoy marking 8099.352 Nautical Miles...or 15,000 KMs for landlubbers ! This buoy was/is anchored a little off the Point Pokhran 2 Road, Thane.

But then as usual there was something that happened a couple of days or more earlier which I thought was worth recounting here.

Sunday (Aug 28,2011) saw Admiral and me running off to meet some of the good TBHP folks there for breakfast and get back by lunch time. A short stretching of legs would do good for Admiral it was contemplated.

What I thought would be a humdrum run of the expressway turned out to be one of the most delightful runs ever on the expressway. And the reason ? Rains, heavy, real heavy, rains. And that turned the run into a truly memorable one. And rains also turned Monday (Aug 29, 2011) into a day of adventure/s for Admiral.

But first of course the Sunday. During this run wanted to test the Admiral for best FE figures. But alas that was not to be because of the drenched run and the attendant issues. But the run did return some decent figures.

We started at:
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The MID FE indicator was reset for the stage I of the run.

The weather was rather wet, but mild, at the begining. But nothing like what was to follow:
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At the start of Expressway MID reset again to check the pucca FE on the E-Way:
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Then started the unending downpour - sheets of water literally.

At the Khalapur tollgate the MID showed:
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Not bad at all.
The speed range was - 90-100 KMPH with lotsa slowing down.

And the water sheets worsened.
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Traffic slowed down.
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But for reasons other than safety I guess. This was turning out to be one of the most picturesque runs I've ever done on the E Way. It was so pretty really, with waterfalls all around:

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And at times water...falls on us !
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And with clouds coming low to visit us occasionally:
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On the outbound run as usual kept to the middle lane. This time not just as a good driving habit - but also for safety. The overtaking lane (which many people consider as the lane to drive in high speed) had huge pools of water and it was quite dangerous to run into (and run in !) even at slow speed. On a few occasions I used it I could feel Admiral slowing down and loosing a wee bit of bit of grip. Hydoplaning here I am...you wanted to meet me !
Great fun driving though.

Finally Pune - near Chandni Chowk. And Admiral, as usual, is thrilled on meeting Fraulein (Noop's Vento !):
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The MID at this point:
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And the link up with the rest of the Pune Posse (!) at a nearby joint:
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"Hey ! What about a Cola for me ?" Seems to going on in Varun(Lil Mr dot and a future TBHPian !)'s mind:
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In the distance - R to L : Fraulein, Admiral & Amit's Indica Vista:
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Examining Swanand's Laura:
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At the hightable (Clockwise from L) - Swanand I, Subodh, Noopster, Amitwlele, dot, Varun d'lil' dot, Jealousdiamond:
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After a hearty breakfast, a bit of chatter on vehicles, a test run of the Laura by noops, my pick up of the stash of things that dot had picked up for me from the US of A , goodbyes and hugs - it was time to run back to Thane.
Thanks guys for a great morning !

And if the outbound run was fun the return was even better I guess. And wetter !

Bliss is this:
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And soon this:
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And this:
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Huge lakes on the rightmost lane. Slow speeds.

Pretty sights:
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Clouds, rain and splatter reduce visibilty :
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Water, lots of it, on the tarmac:
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What-a-fall:
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Wooo...don't get excited, not bright city lights but just tunnel lights:
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Siiigh. But all dreams (& runs !) have to come to an end. A hated sign -signalling the end of all great trips:
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The figures at the end:
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Monday morning saw Admiral sailing into a squall. The watery tryst continued. When driving to work drove through a foot of water in the low lying areas of Parel for short stretches. Office closed early and we rushed out like school children to be greeted by water everywhere we ( a petrified colleague for company) drove around. At a stretch in the back alleys of Lalbaug, a two feet deep pool of water for about 300 meters (did I measure the depth and distance ? No just 'andaza se') - and the wading depth figure of the TFort (700 mm) came into my mind. And a bit of panic too - how much is 700mm ? A BEST drove by creating huge waves and then we plunged. How much the water came up to, did the tail pipe go in, did the starter get a dunking etc were Q's that were farthest from my mind - I was driving you see. And praying hard. Thankfully not with my eyes closed. And at a point the BEST bus lurched and stopped/stalled. Some well meaning but moronic minded guy had left a manhole cover open - hoping that the water would drain out. But no warning, no nothing. Gently but surely skirted around the bus missing the nearby mill walls by an inch, at best. The chawl balconies on the opposite side by now had filled with an audience. And watching the scene unfold below them. The gaggle was by now laughing and pointing out the scene to small babies.
I was sure that I'd make it to the front page of TOI as a photograph symbolising the rainy affairs of the day. And was also sure that the photographer would win an award for the Best Capture of the year etc. My passenger had already visualised his obituary in the papers by now and was deciding on which photograph needed to be put up for the same.

Slowly but surely inched around the bus. And suddenly Admiral too lurched just a little ahead of the bus. But didn't stall. No can't be a manhole, I thought logically to myself, two of them just a few inches apart - as I pressed the accelerator gently. Admiral lurched out of the pit. Thankfully I saw a heap of paver blocks nearby and realised that it was a deep pit left by unfinished work and digging. Phew !

Couple of more stretches of water. Suddenly realised I had almost no brakes. Kept trying to pump the break - but in vain as the the wheels were still underwater. Almost standing on the brake even had some effect.
Soon after we emerged from the waterworld. And with a horrendously dry mouth, I realised.

Furiously pumped the brakes. Some feeling returned. Continued.

Finally reached home after almost 3 hours. Whew ! Quite and adventure.
On disembarking checked everything. Everything seemed OK.

Next morning (Tuesday) the engine burst into a growl, as usual, on cranking.
Met the colleague who was looking better by then and he mentioned to me very casually that his T Manza (which he rarely uses and only drives it on an annual trip to the temple, 200 meters from his colony) could have easily gotten through as well.
Next time he wades through the water on foot, I thought to myself. Funny fellow.

And this morning Admiral clocked the milestone mentioned in the first sentence.
And along with that the first creak and streaks have emerged.

First the creak. For sometime now have been hearing a creak/groan sort of a sound inside the cabin. A low creaking sound. Not loud enough to interrupt conversations but not low enough not to interrupt my thoughts. Had been coming on and off since the Bangalore trip. Tried my damnest to isolate it.
Dash ? Steering ? What ? What ? Then it occured to me that it could be from the tilt mechanism of the steering. Lowered the lever and yanked the steering up and down few times and drove. No go, the creak persisted.
And then in a moment of serendipity discovered that it came from the drivers seat. Jumped up and down in the seat couple of times. Yup there it was. Solution - lowered and raised seat using the knob couple of times. And released the seat recliner a couple of times. Since then no sound.
Even the TFort has some great SHP. Self Healing Properties.

And the streaks. Yes, the wiper blades seem to be now having billowing skirts showing couple of legs now and then. Can't do much about it. Will change the blades - next monsoons. Even then the cleaning is fairly decent.

15K KMs was done in 186 days since delivery making it an average use of 80.65 KMs per day.

So there you have it folks !
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Last edited by Guderian : 31st August 2011 at 12:49.
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Old 31st August 2011, 13:32   #1208
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Thumbs up Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

Hi HG!

Hearty congrats on crossing the 15000 km milestone!
Wishing you many more 'fun filled' happy miles with the Admiral!
And what a way to achieve the landmark, the last 2-3 days have been very befitting for the Admiral. Must say he's earned his Medal of Honour!


Looks like you guys had a great time during your Pune run on Sunday.
Sad, I couldn't make it, did get your sms, but it was too late - Sunday evening. (Occupational Hazards you see )

Guess we'll have to wait for another day for the cousins to meet up.
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Old 31st August 2011, 13:43   #1209
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

Hi Guderian,

Nice snaps there. You Mumbai/Pune guys are lucky to meet each other so often (not the case with north Indians).

Anyhow just a concern - Do you take the snaps yourself while driving or the co-passenger do the job? Just a safety concern!

And congrats on reaching 15,000 KM mark.
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Old 31st August 2011, 13:44   #1210
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

I think thats a Superb not a Laura.
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Old 31st August 2011, 14:08   #1211
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

Congrats General on reaching this important Milestone!
Its rainy days like these that one thanks one's choice of judgement for having bought an SUV and that too a Fortuner, which can get through any obstacle and any deep pool of water. I was seeing in the news recently that Mumbai is badly flooded since the past 2-3 days. I have also stayed in Mumbai for 4 years (1999-2003) , but luckily it had never rained so heavily in those days to flood Mumbai so badly as it happened in 2006 (July?).

(How come you are not in any of the pics?? You have captured the rest of the gang, but the cameraman too should have gotten some coverage!)
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Old 31st August 2011, 14:17   #1212
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

Congratz General on reaching 15K, that too, on a short time span. Wish you both loads and loads of smilometers.
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Old 31st August 2011, 14:21   #1213
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monaro CV8 View Post
Hearty congrats on crossing the 15000 km milestone!
Guess we'll have to wait for another day for the cousins to meet up.
Hi Monaro,
Many thanks for the good wishes ! Pity missed you. Would have been quite a sight - two TForts together.
Yes - next time it is !

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluevolt View Post
1.Nice snaps there.
2. Anyhow just a concern - Do you take the snaps yourself while driving or the co-passenger do the job? Just a safety concern!
1. And congrats on reaching 15,000 KM mark.
Hi bluevolt,
1. Thanks.

2. Absolutely valid concern. I click only when there is an opportunity to completely slow down or am forced to - after checking ahead and rear.
On the Pune run was forced to slow down for various reasons to a dead halt many times. And was keeping a lot of distance between the vehicle/s ahead.
Utmost caution is the key word. Thanks !

Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
I think thats a Superb not a Laura.
Hi Akshay,
You may be right.
I wasn't sure of course...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
1. Congrats General on reaching this important Milestone!
2. but luckily it had never rained so heavily in those days to flood Mumbai so badly as it happened in 2006 (July?).

3. (How come you are not in any of the pics?? You have captured the rest of the gang, but the cameraman too should have gotten some coverage!)
Hi Behemoth,
1. Many thanks.
2. July 2005 it was ! Luckily I wasn't around at that time - and the LoH bore the brunt of getting the offspring back from school etc. What a couple of days it was - as per reliable information !
3. What ? And ruin the snaps ?!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by theexperthand View Post
Congratz General on reaching 15K, that too, on a short time span. Wish you both loads and loads of smilometers.
Hi teh,
Many thanks.
Smilometers - that's a new one to me.



Need to also mention that not seen in the snaps was F150 who landed a few secs after the snaps were taken.

And mdsaab - was missing !

Last edited by Guderian : 31st August 2011 at 14:29.
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Old 31st August 2011, 14:26   #1214
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

Hi General,
I have been following your thread for a long time and must say that its an excellent write up and the love for admiral is really admiring.
I am in a dilemma and need your help.
I currently drive a skoda superb automatic diesel which is 2.5yrs old.
The other day I drove a friends Tfort and completely fell in love with the power,handling and possibly everything about the suv.
My only problem is I stay in Andheri west and have my office in Andheri East.
It is just a patch of 7Kms one way and it takes me 1hours and fifteen minutes everyday.And otherwise I do Mum -Goa 4 times a year in the superb.
My only concern is the Manual transmission in the Fortuner.
How does it feel to maneuver the suv in city traffic?
I am ok with the fortuner not having the power seats,sunroof,ICE.
And do ou know by when the Automatic fortuner will be launched here?

I am so tempted to book the white fortuner right away.
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Old 31st August 2011, 14:58   #1215
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Default Re: Fleet Admiral Togo Heihachiro - Toyota Fortuner. Life Sails On...

Quote:
Originally Posted by charthom View Post
ACM,you appear to shift pretty late. Yes,it is a different way of doing things but any advantages? How does it affect the FE?Does it make the ride smoother?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guderian View Post
Hi ACM,
Wow ! Not sure about the way the Aria behaves - but you must be really whipping the engine going by the above figures. And in Mumbai you must be perpetually in 2nd/3rd gear.
Thanks for sharing. Actually if you change gears at too low a RPM level also eats into the FE figures as the engine is running inefficiently and of course the resultant deleterious impact on engine health. So best is the optimum RPM for gear changes (approx 1.7+K) and for cruising (2K).
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
Wow ACM, these figures are a revelation. And I thought the TFort has taller gearing but this takes the cake. Will this not adversely affect the engine life too, besides the FE which others have mentioned, or has Tata used some special technology with the engine of the Aria?
This is a bit of the topic since this is a fortuner Longterm ownership thread, but to reply.

Yep don't bother too much about FE - get 9.5kmpl in city and 12 on the highways (high speed driving most of the way with fogs and low beam on all day) AC is permanently on 25 degrees C.

Yes am whipping the engine most of the day. Had a driver for a few months and he would more or less change gears the way guderian or most sane persons would do. The Dial has a green area marked out this is between about 2000 to 3300 rpm. I later asked him to keep it in the green zone and he did more or less manage. My driving style keeps the Aria in the green zone more or less and at time above it rather than below. Most drivers tend to be low the ideal green zone by default. Of course the way I drive is not the most ideal for FE but nor is keeping the rpms too low (as guderian mentioned)

While downshifting the ECU provides a bit of assistance to keep the engine alive at lower rpms. But occationally I do tend to stall due to not shifting down from 3rd soon enough and not declutching either. (This did not happen to me in the TCIC Safari)

I belive this style works fine as far as engine life is concerned as I did the same with the Safari TCIC which I stretched to 1,75,000 kms over 10 years without major engine work and then sold off.

Aria has 150,000 kms 4 years warranty. In which period I hope to get through about 130,000 kms. What happens post that I'll figure out later.

Anyways enough of Outside topic garbage from me lets get back to the Fortuner ownership.
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