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Old 6th March 2011, 15:12   #1
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Thumbs up CNG'ed my 2002 ZEN MPFI : 1500 km's review

Hi fellow BHP'ians. I have been a regular here on T-BHP since 2005-06 I guess. Keep grasping a lot of info from here. Haven't been posting too much. I guess itís now my time to share my experience.

It all started when the fuel prices went up slowly from 50 Rs / L to 63 Rs / L. I have a daily commute of around 40 kmís (weekdays) keeping aside the outstation trips. So my average running goes to about 50 kmís / day.
Having started using my 2002 model Zen when I started working in 2006, I calculated the amount I spent on Petrol over the past 4 years.

Considering an average running of 50 km / day for 250 days (removed the weekends, bank holidays and other holidays since Iíve accounted for the holiday running into an average running), it turns out to be roughly 12k kmís annually.

For all practical purposes, I am assuming an average of around 15km /L (thatís what I usually get).

So annually I was consuming around 800 L of fuel.

800 L / yr multiplied by 4 years comes to around 3200 L

Assuming an average fuel cost of 45 Rs / L (over 4 years), total cost on fuel comes to roughly 140k.
[Note] : I have rounded off some figures for simplicity of calculation.
So, in my quest to reduce the fuel burden on my pocket and reduce my carbon footprint, I started looking at alternate options
1. Carpooling (tried to get people, succeeded to an extent but couldnít live up to it after I changed my job in Dec)
2. Public transport (tried for a day and gave up. My office is at Powai and I stay at Bandra. So the transport options are very less and very crowded).
3. Company transport (gave this option a thought many a times, but probability of missing the company bus was high since the leaving time from office was never fixed).
4. Purchasing a 2 wheeler (my family was against it, so the idea was to be forcefully dropped immediately)
5. Purchasing a diesel vehicle (didnít make much sense since investing in a new Diesel vehicle would have nullified any savings on Fuel cost)
6. Converting to LPG / CNG (This seemed to be a sensible thought). Iíll give you reasons why I chose CNG over LPG. Initially I was wary about CNG since Iíve heard about the Ėve effects of CNG on the engine.

Research Process:
1. I started researching on CNG V/S LPG and the first choice was obviously T-BHP. Went through the various links on T-BHP and more.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modify...mparision.html (ARTICLE: CNG vs LPG Comparision)
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...onversion.html (Maruti Suzuki Ritz Petrol to CNG conversion)
Greenglobe Fuel Solutions
Dashmesh CNG Impex
Mahanagar Gas | About CNG

2. Spoke to a few Taxi drivers who drive a ZEN Cool-Cab. Asked them about CNG Conversion and effects of CNG on the engine. One of them replied ďSaab 1 lakh km ho gaya hai fir bhi gaadi dhuaandhar chal rahi haiĒ. This boosted my confidence in CNG immediately. I asked him where he got his vehicle converted to CNG. He directed me to Dashmesh Autogas at Wadala.
3. Spoke to a ďTourist CabĒ driver who was driving a CNG fitted Swift Dzire. He said there are no issues and the owner had got the vehicle converted to CNG from Greenglobe, Mulund. Iíve seen this Greenglobe sticker on lots of vehicles in Mumbai.
4. Compared the cost of LPG and CNG and the effective mileage differences in both. CNG seemed to be an economical option.
5. Did a google on ďCNG Car conversion MumbaiĒ and got a list of retrofitters on Just Dial. Here is a link to the search result.
Cng Conversion Kit Dealers in Mumbai - Justdial
6. Called up lots of dealers in the last week of Jan. A few dealers that I called up were Dashmesh Auto, GreenGlobe, Riddhi Siddhi, Suman auto etc.
7. Checked out on the various configurations of CNG kits available.
Open Loop System: This is the traditional system in which there is a manual valve to adjust the Air Fuel mixture. Hence the engine timing needs to be adjusted manually. Best suited for carbureted vehicles.
Closed Loop System: There is a Lambda sensor which receives feedback from the oxygen sensor in the vehicle and based on the input, the air fuel mixture is decided. There is also a Timing Advancer Processor fitted in the vehicle which acts as a slave to the original engine ECU. Whenever the battery of the vehicle is disconnected the TAP and Lambda system need to be re-configured.
Advanced Closed Loop System: This is an advanced version of the Closed loop system which has static memory. There is no need of re-configuring the TAP and Lambda control system.
CL and ACL systems are best suited for MPFI Cars (Hatchbacks and Entry Level Sedans below 1500cc).
Sequential Injection System: This is the most advanced form of the kit and also the most expensive. There are separate injectors for Gas. Separate injectors means holes are drilled into the engine Manifold in order to accommodate the new injectors. This kit has a separate ECU which acts independently when on Gas. So there is no Master Slave configuration here. Such kits are recommended for vehicles like Corolla, CRV, Civic, Innova, Elantra etc.
I called up most of the dealers and the price range of the kits were as follows
Open Loop System : 23k Ė 25k (plus 2.5k for RTO passing)
Closed Loop System : 27k Ė 28k (plus 2.5k for RTO passing)
Advanced Closed Loop system : 33k (plus 2.5k for RTO passing)
Sequential Injection System : 60k+

Called up Vitesse and asked for a quote for a CL system. Vitesse quoted me 45k all inclusive for a BRC kit.
I shortlisted Greenglobe since they were offering a BRC CL kit (29,500/- all incl), which is the same which Maruti uses for OEM. Also, when I went to meet the guy at GreenGlobe, Mulund, he informed me that they were the OEM fitters for Tata, Chevrolet, Meru Cabs, BEST, TMT and the distributors in Mumbai for BRC kit. He also gave me a test drive of a swift which was fitted with a CL CNG system. The vehicle felt as smooth as butter. Also, I met a guy with an Accent at his workshop who had got his Accent converted to CNG. He claimed that he got FE figures of around 27km / kg of CNG on highway.
Ashish (partner at greenglobe) had converted his Honda Civic Automatic and CRV to CNG and claimed that he got an average of around 20km / kg on Civic with AC on the highway. He has an approval from ARAI for Civic, CRV, Corolla, Elantra, Innova in the big car league.
Went back home in order to do some Google to back his words. Came across this Rohan-BRC site.
Rohan Automotive Equipments Private Limited
This confirmed that Greenglobe was the distributor for BRC Kits in Mumbai.
Also, I had seen TMT buses and Meru Cabs and other Chevrolet vehicles (brand new ones which had come from the showroom for CNG fitting) at GreenGlobe.
I decided to go ahead with GreenGlobe for converting my baby to CNG.
1st Feb 2011, 10:30 hrs I reached the greenglobe workshop at Mulund. The workshop guy performed some checks on the vehicle. Engine Timing, Oxygen Sensor, Spark Plugs, Air-filter. Advised me to change the spark plugs and air-filter once CNG has been installed. Oil was just 1k kmís old and I use Castrol GTX Magnatic. They promised to deliver the vehicle the next day evening by 18:30 hrs.
I decided to collect the vehicle on 3rd Feb 2011 in the Morning and confirmed with the workshop guys whether the vehicle would be ready.
I had requested them to install the smallest possible size of the cylinder in order to avoid removing my Sony XPlod speakers and avoid alteration to the back seat. But they said that the speakers need to be removed at any cost (now Iím trying to find alternate space to fit my speakers). Iíll be posting pics at the end.
I was waiting impatiently for 3rd Feb and when I reached there on 3rd Feb, the vehicle wasnít ready in spite of getting a confirmation earlier. I called up Ashish and he was pretty concerned and promised to get the car delivered at my Powai office by evening. Collected the Invoice, made the cash payment (RTO Charges of 2500/- and 500/- for NGK spark plugs and Air Filter) submitted RC Book (for RTO endorsement), insurance policy copy and left.
By 18:30, as promised, his driver gave me a call and brought the car at Kensington, Powai.
Checked that everything was in place, handed over the cheque for 27k to the driver and left for office. Was getting impatient to leave from office in order to get on to my drive back home.
Left office by 21:00 hrs and here is the first impression of the vehicle
1. The car engine felt buttery and much smoother compared to petrol.
2. Negligible engine noise when on CNG.
3. No vibration at all when on CNG (on petrol there is extremely minor vibration).
4. A slight drop in power. Earlier I could go uphill in 4th Gear at Powai. Now I need to downshift to 3rd.
5. I really donít feel the difference in pick-up.

RTO Endorsement Procedure
1. Greenglobe handed over a MGL gas voucher (valid for a month) to me on the day of delivery. Without this voucher one doesnít get gas at the filling station or you need to give Rs. 10 extra per filling.
2. After around 2 weeks I had to go to Andheri RTO office for verification (through Greenglobe RTO agent). It was a pain and it I had to wait for around 4 hours for just 15 min work.
3. Got my RC book copy last week.
4. Went to Wadala RTO where MGL guys sit. Submitted the temporary voucher, showed the Endorsed RC book copy and got an MGL plate riveted below the hood. Now Iím eligible to get Gas without the voucher.
It has been almost a month and I have driven around 1500 kmís which includes a trip to Pune.
Points 1 Ė 5 of my first impression hold good, apart from that the following are my observations.
1. I have been advised to drive around 1km daily on petrol. The ride on Petrol has become a bit jerky in the mornings when the vehicle is cold started. I tried to find out the reason and Ashish mentions that itís due to insufficient petrol in the fuel line. He advised me to drive the last 1km of the day on petrol and check.
2. I usually have a habit of shifting to neutral while going down on the flyover slopes. On CNG, the engine just gets cut-off. I spoke about this to Ashish and he said that the Venturies in the controller vibrate due to the air (engine is shut and the air doesnít enter the combustion chamber) which causes the CNG to shut.
Apart from the above, there is no other issue.
On the mileage front, I used to get around 12-13 in city with A/C on Petrol. Now I get around 18km-19km with A/C in city driving ( which includes bumper to bumper traffic).
When I went to Pune, I clocked around 25km Ė 27km / kg with A/C.
The CNG Cylinder fitted is 12kg which can accommodate around 8kg -9kg gas.
Hope that this review is useful for fellow BHPíians.
Please feel free to correct if I have mentioned anything incorrect on the technical front on the different CNG kit types or feel free to ask me any queries you may have. Iíll be pleased to respond and try to answer your queries if within my knowledge remit.

Attached pics.
Attached Thumbnails
CNG'ed my 2002 ZEN MPFI : 1500 km's review-03022011.jpg  

CNG'ed my 2002 ZEN MPFI : 1500 km's review-03022011001.jpg  

CNG'ed my 2002 ZEN MPFI : 1500 km's review-03022011002.jpg  

CNG'ed my 2002 ZEN MPFI : 1500 km's review-03022011003.jpg  

CNG'ed my 2002 ZEN MPFI : 1500 km's review-03022011004.jpg  

CNG'ed my 2002 ZEN MPFI : 1500 km's review-03022011005.jpg  

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Old 6th March 2011, 15:57   #2
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Default Re: CNG'ed my 2002 ZEN MPFI : 1500 km's review

Good to know that you opted for an authorized kit with TAP & Lambda. Both these things are essential to get optimum performance from CNG mode.

The installer has committed the grave mistake of not securing the spare wheel. Please do so at the earliest even if it seems tight as it will come off in case of an accident. Ideally, it should be bolted on to the cylinder mountings or placed under the cylinder. A pdf is attached for reference.
Alto-CNG-Kit 9.pdf
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Old 31st March 2011, 11:47   #3
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Default Re: CNG'ed my 2002 ZEN MPFI : 1500 km's review

Great post! Liked the way you elaborated and explained all stuff in simple language.
Good to know that you are enjoying cheaper, cleaner and greener rides now. I am sure this will inspire more petrolheads to become CNGHeads

Whats the CNG filling experience. How are the queues in your area and do you have any issues around the same.
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Old 31st March 2011, 20:15   #4
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Default Re: CNG'ed my 2002 ZEN MPFI : 1500 km's review

Nice post Yogesh. Glad you too are on CNG. Welcome to the club. I've been using CNG since past 1 year and my daily commute is around 70kms hence it absolutely made sense for me.

For old cars, yes you have to retrofit and a good fitter should get the the job done with good long term results and peace of mind.

However if I were in the market for a new car, I would have blindly bought a maruti factory fitted car like the Wagon R or SX4. The reason being is they use sequential kits for their cars along with a sturdier rear suspension, hardened valve seats and guides, etc. Plus the benefit of a factory fitted unit rather than a retrofit. The price premium is high though, at around Rs. 55k v/s the petrol counterpart. Other car manufacturers don't have as nice a CNG package as Maruti...
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Old 5th April 2011, 11:42   #5
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Default Re: CNG'ed my 2002 ZEN MPFI : 1500 km's review

Congratulations Yogesh. Good to see the brigade in Mumbai switching to CNG.

I have been driving a CNG'ed Alto VX 1.1 since the past 14 months. I drive about 50 kms daily with an average mileage of about 24 km/kg of CNG. With my kind of running and the savings that CNG brings, I am certain to stay on the CNG brigade for a long time. Newer vehicle ventures are also in the CNG space for me

In my case, a couple of trips to the CNG tuner mechanics helped a great deal. Small issues can be sorted out too. I think you'll enjoy many more miles with your car now.
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Old 16th April 2011, 10:03   #6
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Default Re: CNG'ed my 2002 ZEN MPFI : 1500 km's review

Quote:
Originally Posted by indianv2 View Post
In my case, a couple of trips to the CNG tuner mechanics helped a great deal. Small issues can be sorted out too. I think you'll enjoy many more miles with your car now.
@indian:

Why did you have to do this? Was this immediately after installation or later?
Was this tuner also the installer?
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Old 8th May 2011, 12:07   #7
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Default Re: CNG'ed my 2002 ZEN MPFI : 1500 km's review

Quote:
Originally Posted by @Chaand View Post
Great post! Liked the way you elaborated and explained all stuff in simple language.
Good to know that you are enjoying cheaper, cleaner and greener rides now. I am sure this will inspire more petrolheads to become CNGHeads

Whats the CNG filling experience. How are the queues in your area and do you have any issues around the same.
Hey Chaand, Sorry couldn't reply to you earlier since somehow I missed this query. As far as the queues are concerned, it doesn't take more than 15 minutes. I usually tank up at the Indian Oil pump located at JVLR. I find that they are the best in terms of providing accurate quantity. Whereas when I filled at HP Coco Bandra or BP opp Amarsons, I found that the car used to do less km's with the same quantity of fuel.

I try not to tank up when there is a lot of taxi fellows in the queue.

Also, there is an HP pump at Chembur ahead of RK studios which has a good pressure (around 220) which helps fill around 10kgs in a 12 kg tank and is pretty neat in terms of quantity.
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Old 9th May 2011, 16:23   #8
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Default Re: CNG'ed my 2002 ZEN MPFI : 1500 km's review

Yogesh, I visited Greenglobe at Mulund Shastri Nagar today and talked to Ashish. He gave me a quote of 30000 - only difference was that he said he recommended a kit called Greco from Argentina rather than BRC. He said Greco is better & it costs the same as BRC - any idea about this?

My car is a Swift Petrol.

Few more things he mentioned
- I need to get the gas system checked every 3 months - this is free for the first year, but next year on, I need to pay 150-200 for this.
- He said my sparks have to be changed to NGK (if they aren't already NGK) at the time of installation & it costs around 400 Rs for 4.
- He said I would need to change Air filter every 20000 kms (The Swift's actual schedule is 40000 kms)

Also, have you filled CNG on Mulund (LBS) opp Greenworld - do you know how much line this is there usually.
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Old 9th May 2011, 16:43   #9
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Default Re: CNG'ed my 2002 ZEN MPFI : 1500 km's review

Hi Yogesh,
May i know below things after CNG installation
1. Any smell comes inside the cabin after putting CNG tank at boot ?
2. How muach cost per KG, CNG has ?

Thanks for all info in your ealier post.
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Old 10th May 2011, 08:59   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Yogesh, I visited Greenglobe at Mulund Shastri Nagar today and talked to Ashish. He gave me a quote of 30000 - only difference was that he said he recommended a kit called Greco from Argentina rather than BRC. He said Greco is better & it costs the same as BRC - any idea about this?

My car is a Swift Petrol.

Few more things he mentioned
- I need to get the gas system checked every 3 months - this is free for the first year, but next year on, I need to pay 150-200 for this.
- He said my sparks have to be changed to NGK (if they aren't already NGK) at the time of installation & it costs around 400 Rs for 4.
- He said I would need to change Air filter every 20000 kms (The Swift's actual schedule is 40000 kms)

Also, have you filled CNG on Mulund (LBS) opp Greenworld - do you know how much line this is there usually.
Hi Carboy,
My thoughts below
1. Am not aware about GRECO. When I went to him about 5 months back, he recommended BRC as Maruti uses BRC as an OEM kit. Just check with him what kit is Maruti using since he claims to be the CNG fitter for Maruti.

2. Yes, you need to get it checked every 3 months. The service schedule is 1k, 3k, 5k, 10k km's. i.e 4 times a year. Also ,bear in mind that every time you get your battery disconnected, you need to run your car on petrol and then go to the CNG fitter to re-program the Control System.

3. Yes, sparks need to be changed. Even I changed to NGK. I guess its a routine.

4. As far as the Air Filters are concerned, he told me also the same thing, but I'm not too bothered since I keep getting it dusted using a vacuum frequently. Change it when you feel its clogged. Coz in a city like Mumbai in the traffic an pollution, I feel that the filter gets clogged soon.

5. Havent really filled at Mulund. But Ashish told me that as per MGL rule even if there is a long queue of auto/taxis, pumps are supposed to service private vehicles first. None of the pumps adhere to this. I'm going to ask Ashish about this if its documented somewhere. If Yes, I'm planning to take this up with MGL.

Hope this helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RVG View Post
Hi Yogesh,
May i know below things after CNG installation
1. Any smell comes inside the cabin after putting CNG tank at boot ?
2. How muach cost per KG, CNG has ?

Thanks for all info in your ealier post.
Hi RVG,

No smell after CNG installation. However, the install needs to be extremely professional where they check for leakages at all joints and bends and only then deliver the vehicle to the customer.

CNG costs around 31.5 in Mumbai.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by manson : 12th May 2011 at 14:44. Reason: Kindly use Edit button to merge posts whilst posting within twenty minutes from the first post.
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Old 10th May 2011, 19:12   #11
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Default Re: CNG'ed my 2002 ZEN MPFI : 1500 km's review

Hi Yogesh,

Thats a really nice detailed review. Just'd a query.

Are you sure about the capacity of the CNG cylinder? From the pic it seems more like a 9Kg cylinder. I have been using the same capacity in my Alto Lxi since 2006, and it takes in a maximum of 6.75-7 kgs at full boost. I doubt the capacity of your cylinder because a 12Kg cylinder is shorter in length and bigger around its waist, compared to what we see in the pic.
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Old 10th May 2011, 21:41   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScorpMan View Post
Hi Yogesh,

Thats a really nice detailed review. Just'd a query.

Are you sure about the capacity of the CNG cylinder? From the pic it seems more like a 9Kg cylinder. I have been using the same capacity in my Alto Lxi since 2006, and it takes in a maximum of 6.75-7 kgs at full boost. I doubt the capacity of your cylinder because a 12Kg cylinder is shorter in length and bigger around its waist, compared to what we see in the pic.
Hi ScorpMan,
Your 9kg cylinder takes areound 6.75kg - 7 kgs at full boost. I feel that this installer wouldn't cheat me. He told me that its a 12kg tank. At full boost 220milibar, I've been able to fill around 9.5 - 9.75 kgs. So I feel it should be a 12 kg cylinder.
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Old 12th May 2011, 08:52   #13
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Default Re: CNG'ed my 2002 ZEN MPFI : 1500 km's review

Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Yogesh, I visited Greenglobe at Mulund Shastri Nagar today and talked to Ashish. He gave me a quote of 30000 - only difference was that he said he recommended a kit called Greco from Argentina rather than BRC. He said Greco is better & it costs the same as BRC - any idea about this?

My car is a Swift Petrol.

Few more things he mentioned
- I need to get the gas system checked every 3 months - this is free for the first year, but next year on, I need to pay 150-200 for this.
- He said my sparks have to be changed to NGK (if they aren't already NGK) at the time of installation & it costs around 400 Rs for 4.
- He said I would need to change Air filter every 20000 kms (The Swift's actual schedule is 40000 kms)

Also, have you filled CNG on Mulund (LBS) opp Greenworld - do you know how much line this is there usually.
Hello Carboy,

Did you speak to Greenglobe again on BRC v/s Greco ? Also, let me know your experience with Greenglobe if you happen to get your car converted from there.

Are you planning to get your vehicle converted anytime soon. If Yes and at Greenglobe, let me know coz even I need to drop in at GG for a routine checkup, we can catch up there.

Cheers,
Yogesh...
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Old 12th May 2011, 09:51   #14
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Default Re: CNG'ed my 2002 ZEN MPFI : 1500 km's review

Quote:
Originally Posted by yogeshnagpal View Post
Hello Carboy,

Did you speak to Greenglobe again on BRC v/s Greco ?
No, not yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogeshnagpal View Post
Are you planning to get your vehicle converted anytime soon. If Yes and at Greenglobe, let me know coz even I need to drop in at GG for a routine checkup, we can catch up there.
Date isn't fixed yet. But will probably get it done in the next couple of months.
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Old 14th May 2011, 23:07   #15
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Default Re: CNG'ed my 2002 ZEN MPFI : 1500 km's review

I need help for the CNG kit fitment for my 2008 Santro Xing GL.

I want to know, where should I go for the fitments in Pune and which type and brand of kit is best suited for Santro.

Any similar review for CNG on Santro ?
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