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Old 19th April 2013, 13:20   #181
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Default Re: 25-30 Lakh Car Buying Advice from Fellow Bhpians

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My bad. CVT. sublime. Nonetheless. Absolutely no pause of power flow during gear changes
Thats because technically there are no gear changes
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Old 19th April 2013, 14:10   #182
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Yep CVT - No Gear Changes - Just a band moving over different gearing of different
Dia depending on the speed.

DSG - Smooth Gear Changes - The Audi A4 engine is mounted 90 degrees different to the Jetta, Laura engine which I think makes mounting the same DSG technically complex.

The 2.0 in the Audi does have about 10 Bhp more power I think than the Jetta / Laura / Superb 2.0TDI

The VW and Skoda borrow the Audi Platforms rather than it being the otherway round which does not take away from the Audi Platform at all but allows the cars like, the Jetta, Laura, Superb and Passat to be that much better vs the Jap options in certain aspects.

Audi as a Brand is poised to become No1 vs Merc and BMW in India on an annual basis. Already were the largest selling in the last quarter.

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Old 19th April 2013, 16:43   #183
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The 2.0 in the Audi does have about 10 Bhp more power I think than the Jetta / Laura / Superb 2.0TDI
You seem to be mistaken mate. The Audi A4 makes 140.8 bhp and the Jetta makes 139 bhp. They have the same power but the jetta obviously drives better because it weighs less.

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The VW and Skoda borrow the Audi Platforms rather than it being the otherway round which does not take away from the Audi Platform at all but allows the cars like, the Jetta, Laura, Superb and Passat to be that much better vs the Jap options in certain aspects.
The question isn't who borrows from whom. The fact is that the exact same engine and chassis is available in cars which cost half as much. Not to metion the A4 is grossly underpowered compared to 320d and The C class both of which make upwards of 184 bhp. Which is also why I assume audi offers the cheapest price among competition and offers a lot more gadgets at a lower price/similar price.

Might I add this also makes the jetta/Laura/superb the priciest in their respective categories compared to their Jap counterparts. And by far the most expensive to maintain

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Audi as a Brand is poised to become No1 vs Merc and BMW in India on an annual basis. Already were the largest selling in the last quarter.
While Audi is on the fastrack, again lets not forget the fact is, BMW is no.1 as on today. Nonetheless, I think we'd all agree that there is a huge difference between the largest selling brand and the best brand. Case in point Maruti Suzuki.
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Old 20th April 2013, 08:30   #184
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Default Re: 25-30 Lakh Car Buying Advice from Fellow Bhpians

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Thanks for the tips. Since the car will mostly be driver-driven I think backseat comfort will be very important. Did you test drive all three before you selected on the BMW? How comfortable was the ride in the BMW as compared to the other two? Since the Merc and the Audi are going to the replaced in 2014, wouldn't they be the ones with the maximum discounts? Like I said, we don't mind getting a 2012 model if the on road price falls under 25L.
Of the three, obviously the 3 should be the best option Ė new to the market, and most engaging to drive. But because the 3 is relatively new, you may not get good discounts compared to the other two.

Personally I find the C a very handsome looking car, it still have good presence and looks modern. And you may get good discounts on this (not sure if it will go under 25L). But probably for the price of a base 3, you may get a higher variant of the Merc.

I will eliminate the A4 at this point. The Audi interiors are awesome, but this one probably will be the last one in the Audi line-up with the 140ps diesel and CVT gearbox.

To conclude, my recommendation will be to try and negotiate hard on the Merc. That maybe the best compromise on price, comfort and driving pleasure.

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Personally why I didn't go for Audi
1. I don't like the brand. They're basically glorified VWs
2. A4 has the same engine as the Jetta. Yes Jetta!!!. I would never be able to justify to myself why I paid 13-15 lacs extra for a jetta based car. Not to mention, that makes it very slow.
Agree on the brand preferences. But I will eliminate the A4 not because it has part sharing with the Jetta, but for the fact that the tech specs looks inferior to the competition. Other than that I consider brand Audi as an able competitor to Merc and BMW. IMO, they have the best interiors in comparison, and no way will you mistake it for a VW. Engine sharing happens even in the BMW world. They do share engine with Mini and lesser ones like Peugeot and CitroŽn.
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Old 20th April 2013, 10:08   #185
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Let me put things into perspective (personal opinion)-
As an Audi owner even il tell you the A4 2.0 TDi is an average car AT BEST when compared to the other 2 on the drivetrain front. There is no denying that. I would not have bought an Audi if i had to settle for the 2.0 TDi, but my priorities were completely different from what your dad would be needing. For your dad , the 2.0 TDi A4 would make perfect sense. If practicality rules over the heart then the A4 might just rule the roost.
Frankly all this jazz about Audis being glorified VWs is hogwash. If you must look at it that way also do remember Bugatti, Bentley, Lamborghini & Porsche too are all superlatively glorified VWs. Would you now be so skeptical about it ?
Anyway i do agree that as the 'jack of all trades' the 3 leads the pack (except for that horrid face) but looking at what your dad needs and the discounts Audi might offer, you just might run away with a killer deal. Good luck.

@ACM - the A4 2.0 / Laura / Jetta are in an identical state of tune.

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Old 20th April 2013, 10:26   #186
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Default Re: 25-30 Lakh Car Buying Advice from Fellow Bhpians

Currently the BMW is having good discounts;

320d baseline is offered @ 30.5L &

320d sportsline @ 35L

* OTR Mumbai

C - Class should be the 2nd option

Where as the A4 should be considered majorly on the looks basis. Also it isnt as spacious as the new 3 from the inside nor as comfortable as the C.

Where as the engine is concerned i think Audi missed out on the opportunity to bump up the power to 170 bhp (VW Passat tune) when the facelift was launched
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Old 20th April 2013, 13:42   #187
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Let me put things into perspective (personal opinion)-
As an Audi owner even il tell you the A4 2.0 TDi is an average car AT BEST.
Frankly all this jazz about Audis being glorified VWs is hogwash. If you must look at it that way also do remember Bugatti, Bentley, Lamborghini & Porsche too are all superlatively glorified VWs. Would you now be so skeptical about it ?
Umm not quite sure about the relevance of the above examples. Not trying to offend in anyway here

But where did bugattis, bentleys and Lamborghinis come into the picture?! The A4 2.0 Tdi uses the engine from much cheaper VWs and skodas. And as you rightly said, they're all in identical state of tune. Lambos bentleys and bugattis don't use engines from inferior cheaper VWs. They're owned by VW yes. And they may share some small parts and techs with VW. But that's pretty much it. And theyre certainly not in an identical state of tune.

When anybody goes for a bmw/Audi/merc or any other premium car, they do it for various reasons but somewhere in there Exclusivity and Uniqueness are the top drivers on the decision to go for a premium brand. And Audi is making itself less exclusive, diluting its brand equity (aka being called as glorified VWs) by offering the same engines/performance in cheaper models unlike its rivals.

1. A4 2.0 Tdi - same engine as jetta/Laura/superb
2. A6 2.0 Tdi - Same engine as the passat
3. Q3 2.0 Tdi - same engine as the passat

Porsche does share a lot with toureg but it isn't in an identical state of tune. And it obviously shares it with an equally premium car rather than sharing it with a much cheaper car. On the other hand, the Q5 uses the chassis of a skoda yeti.
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Old 20th April 2013, 14:06   #188
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Umm not quite sure about the relevance of the above examples. Not trying to offend in anyway here

But where did bugattis, bentleys and Lamborghinis come into the picture?! The A4 2.0 Tdi uses the engine from much cheaper VWs and skodas. And as you rightly said, they're all in identical state of tune. Lambos bentleys and bugattis don't use engines from inferior cheaper VWs. They're owned by VW yes. And they may share some small parts and techs with VW. But that's pretty much it. And theyre certainly not in an identical state of tune.

When anybody goes for a bmw/Audi/merc or any other premium car, they do it for various reasons but somewhere in there Exclusivity and Uniqueness are the top drivers on the decision to go for a premium brand. And Audi is making itself less exclusive, diluting its brand equity (aka being called as glorified VWs) by offering the same engines/performance in cheaper models unlike its rivals.

1. A4 2.0 Tdi - same engine as jetta/Laura/superb
2. A6 2.0 Tdi - Same engine as the passat
3. Q3 2.0 Tdi - same engine as the passat

Porsche does share a lot with toureg but it isn't in an identical state of tune. And it obviously shares it with an equally premium car rather than sharing it with a much cheaper car. On the other hand, the Q5 uses the chassis of a skoda yeti.

You dont get the relevance right ? So lets leave it at that. Dont stress yourself
Honestly ? This is a common point anyone who has a problem with Audi has to make. 'Glorified VW'. The 4 litre V8 used in the Conti GT is from the Audi S8/ RS7/S7/RS6/S6. But probably you might have something to complain about that as well ?
About interior sharing with VW, Audi has time and again won best interior / trim awards in the past and continues to do so. If the 'VW spec interior, is winning them accolades why ever not ??? Its good enough to help them pip Merc and BMW right ? Like vb-san pointed out component sharing goes on in the bmw groups as well. So that's that.
I hope you understand that just because you dont appreciate a brand does not make it bad.

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Old 20th April 2013, 16:54   #189
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Our priorities are pretty simple. Ride quality, backseat comfort and price. The engine in the A4 although the same as the cheaper VW's don't really matter. I have my doubts if my father will even go to the technicality of the engine and power output let alone finding out what other car shares the same engine.

All the big three discussed here carry badge value and he already knows that. Eventually he will choose a car that he is comfortable in and one that is within his budget.

Asked around a bit and it seems Mercedes has the best offers going on, BMW has the best service package and the A4 has the most comfortable backseat and looks the part.

So there we are.
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Old 20th April 2013, 18:31   #190
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You dont get the relevance right ? So lets leave it at that. Dont stress yourself
Honestly ? This is a common point anyone who has a problem with Audi has to make. 'Glorified VW'. The 4 litre V8 used in the Conti GT is from the Audi S8/ RS7/S7/RS6/S6. But probably you might have something to complain about that as well ?
Its good enough to help them pip Merc and BMW right ? Like vb-san pointed out component sharing goes on in the bmw groups as well. So that's that.
I hope you understand that just because you dont appreciate a brand does not make it bad.

Oops. Looks like I ended up offending you. My apologies ! It was unintended.

While most big brands like Mercedes & BMW do share engines and technology withing group cos, they almost always ensure that each car/model's engine is tweaked In order to preserve the uniqueness and USP of the car. Audi however shamelessly uses engines from inferior cars like VW in an IDENTICAL STATE OF TUNE. this is where the problem lies. You seem to have missed this point.

In the same way, Bentley GTC V8 while using the engine from the S8 churns out 500 bhp compared to S8's 520 bhp and S7's 420 Bhp. So just to put an end to this completely irrelevant discussion here's the link to a review of the GTC V8 done. Caranddriver.com who clearly mention that the engine even though borrowed from S8, seems different.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review.
Many other websites have posted similar reviews.
Although you've still left me wondering how you managed to drag in Bugatti and Lamborghini into the Glorified VW space ?


Now coming back to the original discussion.

Like you said the Audi A4 2.0 Tdi is an average car at best compared to rivals. This is exactly why I did not go for an Audi A4 because unlike you most buyers like me who are on a budget cannot afford to go for the V6 while we find the 2.0 grossly underpowered thanks to the fact that it uses a jetta engine. I agree Audi offers the best in class interiors, but that's not the deciding for most petrol heads.

[/quote]About interior sharing with VW, Audi has time and again won best interior / trim awards in the past and continues to do so. If the 'VW spec interior, is winning them accolades why ever not ??? [/quote]

Now where did the interior come into the picture ?
As far as I'm aware, and I've Diven all Audis available in india, the interior is completely different from that of VW. Quite surprising to see this coming from an Audi owner.

Audi does have the best interior by far but sadly that's all they have over their competition.

I don't hate Audi. Infact I quite like it and was considering an A6 at one point. But you're right, my opinions won't make the brand bad. What does however effect their image is the fact that they continue to con customers by offering inferior engines At such High prices.
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Old 21st April 2013, 09:31   #191
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Oops. Looks like I ended up offending you. My apologies ! It was unintended.

While most big brands like Mercedes & BMW do share engines and technology withing group cos, they almost always ensure that each car/model's engine is tweaked In order to preserve the uniqueness and USP of the car. Audi however shamelessly uses engines from inferior cars like VW in an IDENTICAL STATE OF TUNE. this is where the problem lies. You seem to have missed this point.

In the same way, Bentley GTC V8 while using the engine from the S8 churns out 500 bhp compared to S8's 520 bhp and S7's 420 Bhp. So just to put an end to this completely irrelevant discussion here's the link to a review of the GTC V8 done. Caranddriver.com who clearly mention that the engine even though borrowed from S8, seems different.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review.
Many other websites have posted similar reviews.
Although you've still left me wondering how you managed to drag in Bugatti and Lamborghini into the Glorified VW space ?


Now coming back to the original discussion.

Like you said the Audi A4 2.0 Tdi is an average car at best compared to rivals. This is exactly why I did not go for an Audi A4 because unlike you most buyers like me who are on a budget cannot afford to go for the V6 while we find the 2.0 grossly underpowered thanks to the fact that it uses a jetta engine. I agree Audi offers the best in class interiors, but that's not the deciding for most petrol heads.

Not offended so chill.
One of the problems when your owned by someone else i guess. I dont know how much of a role does VW owning Audi and BMW / Mercedes not being owned by anyone else have to play in this.
Id ideally like to imagine that Audi must be the only one to have a say in what engine block should go in which of their cars and what tune must it be in but im unaware of how things work in that group. If VW is flexing its muscle over Audi , its really silly because selling a 2 litre 140hp and multitronic gearbox car in the wake of BMW rolling out its latest model is preposterous. Ofcourse Audi is still somehow managing to sell it.
I completely disagree with that fact that interior is the only department where Audi are leading but then its your opinion i shouldn't bother changing it.

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Old 23rd April 2013, 15:41   #192
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Here are the current deals/financing offers (From TOI) in Ahmedabad on Mercedes, BMW and the Audi A4.
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Old 23rd April 2013, 16:59   #193
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Here are the current deals/financing offers (From TOI) in Ahmedabad on Mercedes, BMW and the Audi A4.
Have you checked out the Volvo offers for the S60 ? Don't know much about it, but the car is worth checking out. Or are you intent on going with the Germans? Can't say much about the offers, but about the cars, I would say that the 3-series is better. What variants are you considering?
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Old 24th April 2013, 15:47   #194
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Here are the current deals/financing offers (From TOI) in Ahmedabad on Mercedes, BMW and the Audi A4.
Rather than go by the Advts. Would suggest you get all the three to quote for varients that are acceptable to you. Then get them to again make their best offer - after if reqd. indicating that you prefer the competing model from one of the other two options (irrespective of your actually liking it). And once you have the second quotes you should call over the guys with whom you are actually prepared to close the deal and make a final offer from your end. (preferably do it closer to the month end or even better the quarter end.)

The actual deals should be much better than the ones advertised in the paper. (though specific finance options may not vary)
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Old 29th April 2013, 17:15   #195
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Is it just me or has the auto industry declared a state of emergency and panic in our country ? Automakers seems to be throwing away cars with Hyundai offering the i20 base diesel for 5.7 lacs. Volkswagen offering 50 % advance payment and no payment for the next 1 year. Other dealers offering financing at rates as low as 2 percent.

Anybody looking to buy a car , I don't think the timing could get better than now. BMW is the leader in india in terms of sales just by a small margin of approx. 120 cars over Audi. This stiff competition has resulted in Audi offering massive discounts on their cars because they obviously want to do anything under the sun to overtake bmw in the coming quarter. The BMW india head on the other hand announced last week that they're not going to compromise on pricing and brand value to stay at no. 1.

My take : BMW is also offering heavy discounts on their cars pan india. A friend bought a 3 series luxury line (original price 34.25 lacs) last week for 32 lacs ex showroom. This is 50k cheaper than the price I paid. Similarly BMW Chandigarh are selling a 2012 520d (original price approx 40.5 lacs) with a complete M body kit along with 18 inch wheels worth a total of 6 lacs for the price of 43 lacs. This price was quoted to me by the sales rep so im assuming he'll bargain and come down to at least 41.5 lacs. That again sounds like an amazing deal ! BUT Audi's discounts on a Pan india level seem to be much higher and more aggressive. The A6 can be bought for as low as 36 lacs. So the timing could not be better.

Irrespective of what brand you're going for, please ensure you bargain hard, and squeeze out the best possible deal for yourself.
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