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Old 14th December 2013, 00:49   #211
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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post

Buddy stop getting confused and go and get that beemer. There is no comparison between the 3 series and the XF. They are talking about the XF since the member got a quote of 45L for the 3 series sportsline that included BSI and company registration. The XF competes with the 5 series and E class and is priced at around 10L over these cars. AFAIK its priced around 55-60L OTR as compared to 45-50L OTR for the 5 series and E class and A6.
I am just curious that's it. And I thought so that XF will be much more expensive.

BTW, I forgot to ask you before but did you opt for BSI? If yes, then which one? I think there are two three types?!
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Old 14th December 2013, 07:23   #212
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Default Re: BMW 320d (F30) vs Audi A4

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Originally Posted by lapsi View Post
Also note, the registration charges are paid on the net invoice after discount, but they will collect the registration charges on the invoice amount before discount. If the discount is 4-5 lakhs and the registration charge is 20%, you could save 80,000 - 1 lakh on the registration charges. Tell them that you will do the registration yourself, if necessary.

I got two cars registered in September: A Mercedes E250 CBU and another BMW 320d SportsLine. The dealers issue what is called an RTO invoice. This invoice is a net invoice after all discounts. The Registration charges are calculated on the net amount recorded in this RTO invoice. Dealers pocket the additional tax that they have collected on the ex-showroom price. They may even give you a receipt of the amount quoted to you. This is one of the biggest trade secrets. And I believe this is one more scam waiting to be unearthed.

Btw, since I got the cars registered on my own, I also got a copy of the Invoice issue by the manufacturer to the dealer. So I knew the exact price at which the dealer bought from the manufacturer.
No there is this big confusion going on regarding this and it varies across different cities. For instance in Gurgaon its possible to get the car registered on the discounted price where as in Delhi its not. The dealer showed me both invoices i.e. the one that was billed to him from Chennai BMW plant and the one which they are billing to me on the current ex showroom price. But in Delhi its not possible to get the car registered on discounted price. The dealer in my case hasn't pocketed any difference in the road tax since he has given me the RTO receipt for the exact road tax that they quoted to me. So its not a scam but a loophole in the system itself with some RTOs knowingly or unknowingly registering the vehicles at discounted prices and other are not.

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Originally Posted by the_skyliner View Post
BTW, I forgot to ask you before but did you opt for BSI? If yes, then which one? I think there are two three types?!
I am going to opt for the BSI plus with extended warranty according to the new nomenclature. Haven't yet paid for it. But it is same as the earlier BSI ultimate. BTW I have been wanting to ask this. Do you need to pay for the BSI in cheque too or can this be done in cash ( difference being that does it need to be shown in your books for taxation?).
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Old 14th December 2013, 07:48   #213
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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Road tax is calculated on the showroom price without any discounts in most places across the country. So discount doesn't reduce the tax but is deducted from OTR price. This is what is followed in Delhi. Also the price quoted to op includes the BSI too.
Haha no Drmohit.

Road tax across the country is charged on the final invoiced price (after all discounts). The dealers want you to believe that it's the other way round as they pocket the difference.

I bought a honda 2 years ago and the dealer insisted I pay full registration. I decided to get the car registered myself and the RTO informed me that registration was to be charged on the final invoice given to me.

Please beware of such hoaxes.
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Old 14th December 2013, 10:14   #214
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Default Re: BMW 320d (F30) vs Audi A4

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Originally Posted by the_skyliner View Post
Would you mind sharing the scheme details? I was under the impression that XF is much more expensive than 3. Do you know how much is the exact price difference between the two?
The scheme they are offering is an EMI scheme of 60k per month for 84 months.
http://www.jaguar.com/in/en/jaguar_f...inance_options


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Your insurance of 1.40 lakhs plus the zero depreciation of .42 lakhs costs a total of 1.82 lakhs. If you buy a zero depreciation policy from a Nationalized Insurance company, it should cost you in the range of 60,000. If you have no claim bonus, the amount will become lesser. Go ahead and get a quote from a Nationalized Insurance company and see for yourself. Once you have a quote, you will have a clear picture on the figures. Your saving should be in the range of 1.25 lakhs.

Also note, the registration charges are paid on the net invoice after discount, but they will collect the registration charges on the invoice amount before discount. If the discount is 4-5 lakhs and the registration charge is 20%, you could save 80,000 - 1 lakh on the registration charges. Tell them that you will do the registration yourself, if necessary.

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Road tax across the country is charged on the final invoiced price (after all discounts). The dealers want you to believe that it's the other way round as they pocket the difference....
I consulted my father on this. He said that there is some tax (i forgot the name) that is always charged on the MRP of the car. So there is some tax that I should pay (as a law abiding citizen) on the MRP of the car as the government expects that from me.

So let's say the tax is at 10%.
That's 10% on 35 lacs. Therefore, the cost is now 38.5 lacs.
The dealer then gives me a discount of 5 lacs. Therefore, the cost is 33.5 lacs now. And the road tax can be charged on this amount apparently.
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Old 14th December 2013, 14:15   #215
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The scheme they are offering is an EMI scheme of 60k per month for 84 months. http://www.jaguar.com/in/en/jaguar_f...inance_options I consulted my father on this. He said that there is some tax (i forgot the name) that is always charged on the MRP of the car. So there is some tax that I should pay (as a law abiding citizen) on the MRP of the car as the government expects that from me. So let's say the tax is at 10%. That's 10% on 35 lacs. Therefore, the cost is now 38.5 lacs. The dealer then gives me a discount of 5 lacs. Therefore, the cost is 33.5 lacs now. And the road tax can be charged on this amount apparently.
Just checked my bill. Vat @12.5% has been charged on the reduced amount. The ex showroom price finalized with me was 32.5 lacs. The invoice says BASE PRICE = 28,88,889 VAT @ 12.5% = 361,111 Vehicle ex showroom price = 32,50,000 VAT may vary from state to state.

Over and above this only registration is applicable. There are some states that charge OCTROI/ADVANCE TAX/ENTRY TAX. This tax is payable on the price that the dealer pays the parent company for each car. NOT THE MRP.

In other words the end customer pays all taxes VAT/REGISTRATION/any other tax at the reduced discounted final invoice raised to him.

Last edited by Bluebeem : 14th December 2013 at 14:39.
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Old 14th December 2013, 16:52   #216
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Default Re: BMW 320d (F30) vs Audi A4

AFAIK the road tax is paid on the invoice price and not the MRP. I have had my cars registered in various states such as Maharashtra, Haryana, Bihar, Jharkhand, West Bengal and Delhi and all the times I have been charged the road tax on the invoice price. However there can be additional taxes as Bluebeem pointed above. For eg, Bihar has an entry tax of 7% so if someone is registering a car which is bought from another state he needs to pay 8% + 7% but even this is charged on the invoice price. It would clearly be unpractical for RTOs to keep a track of the ex showroom/MRP of all the cars hence they straight away charge on whatever the invoice price is.
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Old 14th December 2013, 21:25   #217
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Default Re: BMW 320d (F30) vs Audi A4

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post

No there is this big confusion going on regarding this and it varies across different cities...

... he has given me the RTO receipt for the exact road tax that they quoted to me. So its not a scam...
It is quite possible that what you are saying is correct and it varies across different cities. Earlier, I was also told exactly what you were told but it was only when I actually did the registration process myself, that I came to know that dealers issue two invoices, one for the buyer and another for the RTO.

There is one simple way to find out. Can you please file an application under RTI to get a copy of all the papers that were filed at the time of applying for the registration of your car? The full set of papers are quite interesting. They also have ARAI documentation among other things.

It is possible that you are right, but if you are not, you will find out that the tax has been paid on the discounted invoice i.e. net invoice amount and that the actual tax paid has been less but you got a receipt for a higher amount. Therein lies the scam. The Government has a one amount on its record and the customer has a higher amount on his receipt.

A little bit of effort on your part to file an application under RTI will go a long way in consumer awareness.


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Originally Posted by shoaib3030 View Post

So there is some tax that I should pay (as a law abiding citizen)...
It is not as if the payment of tax is voluntary and you have a choice in it. They will not register the car without payment of tax and you cannot use your car unless the car is registered.

Last edited by lapsi : 14th December 2013 at 21:29.
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Old 14th December 2013, 22:57   #218
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Default Re: BMW 320d (F30) vs Audi A4

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Originally Posted by shoaib3030 View Post
The scheme they are offering is an EMI scheme of 60k per month for 84 months.
http://www.jaguar.com/in/en/jaguar_f...inance_options






I consulted my father on this. He said that there is some tax (i forgot the name) that is always charged on the MRP of the car. So there is some tax that I should pay (as a law abiding citizen) on the MRP of the car as the government expects that from me.

So let's say the tax is at 10%.
That's 10% on 35 lacs. Therefore, the cost is now 38.5 lacs.
The dealer then gives me a discount of 5 lacs. Therefore, the cost is 33.5 lacs now. And the road tax can be charged on this amount apparently.
Off topic, but what's the down payment with 60k EMI?
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Old 15th December 2013, 00:21   #219
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Originally Posted by lapsi View Post

It is possible that you are right, but if you are not, you will find out that the tax has been paid on the discounted invoice i.e. net invoice amount and that the actual tax paid has been less but you got a receipt for a higher amount. Therein lies the scam. The Government has a one amount on its record and the customer has a higher amount on his receipt.
I know of the 2 different invoices. The dealer gave both to me. But tax in Delhi atleast has to be paid on ex showroom without any discounts. The dealer has given me the RTO receipt of the exact tax amount that they have paid which matches to the quote. So there is no question of the dealer pocketing any money.
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Old 15th December 2013, 03:16   #220
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Default Re: BMW 320d (F30) vs Audi A4

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post

I know of the 2 different invoices. The dealer gave both to me.
Yes, I am aware that you know of the two invoices. One issued by the manufacturer and another by the dealer. However, I was referring to two invoices issued by the dealer: one for the customer and another for the RTO to get the car registered.

But since you are convinced that the actions of your dealer are legitimate, let's leave it at that.
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Old 15th December 2013, 10:55   #221
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Yes, I am aware that you know of the two invoices. One issued by the manufacturer and another by the dealer. However, I was referring to two invoices issued by the dealer: one for the customer and another for the RTO to get the car registered.

But since you are convinced that the actions of your dealer are legitimate, let's leave it at that.
To further clarify, I have total 3 invoices with me :
1. Invoice issued to dealer by chennai Bmw plant. This is for a much lesser price than the ex showroom price told to the customer and gives an idea of how much margin dealers have on each car!

2. Invoice of full ex showroom price of my car i. e. For rs 31 lacs ( prevailing price in Delhi). This price is used for RTO taxation purpose and Delhi RTO doesn't allow registration on discounted price. Gurgaon RTO does it on discounted price though! Also this invoice is used for insurance premium calculation.

3. Lastly I have an invoice which is ex showroom price - discount offered. This invoice has been used for bank loan as obviously the bank would not sanction me a loan of more than what I actually paid for the car.

Now there is no cheating here since the dealer has issued me the RTO tax receipt which matches the exact amount I paid. Again I feel if you have a proper source or a good tout, it still may be possible to get the car registered on discounted price even in Delhi. The Law regarding this is not clear and different RTOs across the country are doing whatever pleases them. I even started a thread regarding this and there too the same was evident.

Also to clear the confusion mentioned by Bluebeem above regarding Vat and other taxes. The ex showroom price listed on the brochure or price list is incisive of Vat. Octroi charged in done states is extra over this. But VAT is included in the ex showroom price. So all you need to pay over and above the ex showroom price is only the road tax and insurance +/- miscellaneous dealer charges like handling etc depending upon your negotiation with the dealer.

Hope the confusion is cleared now.
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Old 7th January 2014, 14:39   #222
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Default Re: BMW 320d (F30) vs Audi A4

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2. Invoice of full ex showroom price... This price is used for RTO taxation purpose

3. Invoice which is ex showroom price - discount offered. This invoice has been used for bank loan
In Maharashtra, these two invoices serve opposite purposes:

- Invoice of full ex showroom price: Goes to the bank.

- Invoice which is ex showroom price Less discount offered: This goes to the RTO and registration charges are calculated on the discounted amount.

Cheers!
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Old 7th January 2014, 14:43   #223
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Default Re: BMW 320d (F30) vs Audi A4

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In Maharashtra, these two invoices serve opposite purposes:

- Invoice of full ex showroom price: Goes to the bank.

- Invoice which is ex showroom price Less discount offered: This goes to the RTO and registration charges are calculated on the discounted amount.

Cheers!
So are you suggesting that the Bank releases you an amount more than what you actually paid for the car? Assuming a car costs 30L exshowroom and you get a discount of 3L over it. So final cost is 27L. The bank will need the discounted invoice and will sanction you loan of 27L ( assuming you have taken 100% loan for simpler understanding). If it sanctions you 30L then the dealer is literally taking you for a ride as they got the full amount i.e. 30L in this case and you end up paying higher EMIs to the bank as the bank will want its 30L ( + interest) from you.
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Old 7th January 2014, 14:58   #224
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Default Re: BMW 320d (F30) vs Audi A4

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So are you suggesting that the Bank releases you an amount more than what you actually paid for the car?
I am not suggesting it. I am stating it as a fact.
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Old 7th January 2014, 15:06   #225
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I am not suggesting it. I am stating it as a fact.
Sir with all due respect then what is the fault with my calculations above? Please go through the post once. And if you find it all correct then all buyers in Maharashtra are being taken for a ride by the dealers? The bank cannot give you more money than what you paid for!

I can imagine the RTO, being government organisations, enforcing the same law in 2 different ways across the country. But the banking sector will have similar requirements and procedures nationwide.

Last edited by drmohitg : 7th January 2014 at 15:07.
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