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View Poll Results: Which car around 25-27L should I choose?
Audi A4 TFSI 19 33.33%
Skoda Superb DSG Diesel 21 36.84%
Mercedes C Class Elegance Petrol 10 17.54%
Toyota Camry 7 12.28%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12th December 2012, 16:11   #16
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Default Re: Entry to the holy Trinity (or whatever 25L gives)

Any one out of the holy trinity - the 3, C or the A4 - would do the job. SUV's are out of question, I understand. You might have to stretch your budget a couple of lacs here or there if you need one with a sunroof. For driveability, get the 3. For luxo value get the C. For looks get the A4. That's it then, right?

Last edited by 9thsphinx : 12th December 2012 at 16:13.
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Old 12th December 2012, 16:16   #17
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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
Superb Elegance diesel DSG.


Jokes apart, you requirements seem to be tailor made for the Superb. Call Skoda for a test drive, all of you will come out impressed.

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Originally Posted by Pashin View Post
Hi

Have you considered the New MB B class. It has a pretty good road presence. Ingress/egress would also be easy, since you do not have to bend much to be seated.
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
So basically, a comfortable chauffeur-driven car for ~27 lakhs ex-showroom.

From the Germans (which you clearly have a liking for), it's between the Skoda Superb & the C Class / 3 Series. For sheer comfort & space, the Superb blows the more expensive, prestigious Germans away...

The C Class has heavy discounts and should fit in the region of your budget. A relative recently bought a diesel for 3.5 lakhs discount, thus bargain hard...

...You might want to consider the Nissan Teana (I find it more comfortable than even the Skoda Superb), Honda Accord (old & on its way out) and the Hyundai Sonata (everything works for it except the badge)...

Happy Hunting
Quote:
Originally Posted by imp! View Post
... The Superb has only one problem when considering the diesel (the petrol auto is another ball game), it does not have effective rear cooling. There is a new Superb coming out next year. There will also be a new A4, sporting a lighter body, better engines and better transmission. All this will lead to huge price discounts on existing models. ..
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Originally Posted by eq24 View Post
I will suggest you go for the B Class, This car also came up in our contention list, our needs were of course different to yours so the B class was passed on, but Boy O Boy was it a nice vehicle....
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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
...Basically if you get any car from the holy trinity below 30lakhs, driver bhaiya will be a happy guy but the same can't be said about the saheb and memsaheb's at the back.
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Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
A friend bought the x1 for 23.5 recently. The CE one. Discounts on all variants.
Thank you all for great feedbacks. We should get a "Proud-2b-bhpian" bumper sticker as well

The usual suspect is definitely on the cards. The Skoda Superb does make the most sense when one buys a car in the segment. I had momentarily sat in one and really felt in acres of space at the rear. Didn't have the time to play around, but from what i learnt, it is no slouch even with it's size. The problem like Vid said is that it will be similar to the Passat - but hey! not a problem that a TD won't solve.

GTO, i loved the Teana. It definitely has the best seat upward or downward of the 40L mark. The panoramic sunroof makes the cabin that much more desirable. The main problem with the car would be the sluggish transmission (not that this car we will get will be used for drag racing - but u know!) The Sonata on the other hand is a great suggestion - it does have 200 horses on tap.


Imp, what's with the lighter A4? I have taken around the A4 brilliantly, test drove it over big boulders (somehow they call it speed bumps in aamchi Mumbai), around fast corners et. al. But i can't get past the fact they pretty much have the same heart as my outgoing Jetta

Oh btw! Forgot to mention, but the car is fed by the Company - so petrol or diesel really doesn't matter!


My two pence on the cars in the region, tell me if i am going wrong;

1. C - Easily the most pleasing to the eyes amongst the three bozos. They launched the Sports version @ 29L ex; guess the discounts should get it in the bag quite easily.

2. 3-series - Would have loved to drive, but not really driven in. I believe the new one is better, but having sat in the back of the E90; it frankly is a joke to sit back there with a suit on!

3. A4 - The cheapest of the lot if i am not wrong. But the irony of the matter is its only worth if one goes for the 177bhp petrol; the diesel - though adequate - does leave you feeling short-changed. But it also reminds me of my mechanic when i was in the States; Joe said "Don't be caught dead driving the 1.8T on the Audi". Let's face it (no offence) Audis are not really known for its reliability.

4. Skoda Superb/ VW Passat - Similar drive train, similar features. You can or cannot go wrong with these cars. They do give the most bang for your Gandhis; but be prepared to shell them out just as easily with a breakdown.

(i remember the time i drove from Malad to home with a broken clutch coil)

5. Honda Accord - Was our first choice 3 years back when buying the Jetta. 3 years one the only thing changed are the indicators on the ORVMs. Honda seriously needs to wake up!

6. Hyundai Sonata - Was a big fan of the twin headlamp Jaguar-esque design of the first Sonata in India. Remembered jumping with joy having noticed one in Singapore just before it got launched in India. Should be a worth-while contender considering Hyundai is next only to the Suzukis whereas A.S.S. is concerned. Since Diesel/ petrol doesn't matter; the only thing going majorly against it is - like GTO put it - It's not exactly you start a piggy-bank for when young!

7. Volvo S60 - Anyone? The last i heard was it was a coupe confused for a luxury sedan and doesn't have a spare tire. Please, someone be kind enough to throw some more light on this. Could be the dark horse

8. Rexton/ Santa Fe/ Fortuner - Really not sure!

9. X1 (on the other hand) can be considered more of a car than the above SUVs. It is currently running incredibly good discounts; which again reminds me of the new one around the corner. Nothing like buying a new car; just to realize the bugger next to you in the traffic is driving the upgraded/ updated version after a month


Personally, i am skewed towards the A4 base or the C-class Elegance (both in Petrol avatars). This however, before i read so many of us vouching for the Superb Elegance DSG. It's big - it's classy - it's diesel and it's worth considering. Thanks.

Mod Note: Please remember our 2 smiley per post rule. Thanks!

Last edited by noopster : 12th December 2012 at 21:46. Reason: Refer mod note in post
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Old 12th December 2012, 16:25   #18
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Default Re: Entry to the holy Trinity (or whatever 25L gives)

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Originally Posted by methecupid View Post
1. C - Easily the most pleasing to the eyes amongst the three bozos. They launched the Sports version @ 29L ex; guess the discounts should get it in the bag quite easily.

2. 3-series - Would have loved to drive, but not really driven in. I believe the new one is better, but having sat in the back of the E90; it frankly is a joke to sit back there with a suit on!

3. A4 - The cheapest of the lot if i am not wrong. But the irony of the matter is its only worth if one goes for the 177bhp petrol; the diesel - though adequate - does leave you feeling short-changed. But it also reminds me of my mechanic when i was in the States; Joe said "Don't be caught dead driving the 1.8T on the Audi". Let's face it (no offence) Audis are not really known for its reliability.


Personally, i am skewed towards the A4 base or the C-class Elegance (both in Petrol avatars). This however, before i read so many of us vouching for the Superb Elegance DSG. It's big - it's classy - it's diesel and it's worth considering. Thanks.

It's great about the petrol bit, that means a lot more options opened up for you.

C Class is indeed a beautiful car, both inside and out, and yes the rear seat is a bit cramped, but hey it's a proper MERC for a decent price. A bit of advise, I don't know how Mumbai is but in Delhi, we were getting follow up calls from all the brands except Mercedes, the fact is that Mercedes has so little stocks left and they have stopped ordering new kits so whatever inventory is left is being snapped up. In the C class all they had left, were either the elegance trims or the avantgarde in 250 CDI avatars.

Also with the Beemers's factoring in the Runflats is important, that was one reason we gave up on the X1, even though it was priced well and OK was a bit cramped but not a deal breaker, the absence of proper tires was a strict no no.
So if C class floats your boat do act fast and do have a look at the B class.

Last edited by eq24 : 12th December 2012 at 16:29.
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Old 12th December 2012, 16:36   #19
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Default Re: Entry to the holy Trinity (or whatever 25L gives)

If the back seat is going to be used most of the time, forget the German cars. Honestly it will be too much of a compromise for the better driving pleasure only a little of the time. The Superb diesel would be the best choice, since it has loads of place, all the features you need and isn't really a slouch. But a facelift is due next year, if that doesn't matter to you then go ahead. Skoda service for me has been great, at least at Autobahn.

Do you have the old Passat? If so the new Passat is worth a look, its got better ride and sound insulation than the Superb. The engine is more powerful for the few times you will drive it. And it too is packed with features. If the reduction is rear legroom compared to the Superb is fine, this is my pick.
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Old 12th December 2012, 16:45   #20
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Originally Posted by methecupid View Post


Imp, what's with the lighter A4? I have taken around the A4 brilliantly, test drove it over big boulders (somehow they call it speed bumps in aamchi Mumbai), around fast corners et. al. But i can't get past the fact they pretty much have the same heart as my outgoing Jetta
It's going to be a completely re-designed car, should handle better, better engines will be offered as well, also it should be slightly larger as well. The current auto-box leaves rather a lot to be desired, this too should be addressed in the new A4. The current A4 is on its last dying breath. All this information holds true for the 2014 A4, it should be launched in 2013, but then with a brand new Q5, Q7 on the way, Audi may just push it back to 2014. I haven't been on the grapevine recently to have heard of any new developments, perhaps others here may chip in.

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Oh btw! Forgot to mention, but the car is fed by the Company - so petrol or diesel really doesn't matter!
Unfortunately my friend, someone does pay for the fuel but there is another point that makes it important. Diesel quality is consistent throughout the country. Good quality high octane petrol is only available within larger/prosperous cities, so long distance drives will certainly be an issue for a luxury german petrol sedan in this country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by methecupid View Post

My two pence on the cars in the region, tell me if i am going wrong;

1. C - Easily the most pleasing to the eyes amongst the three bozos. They launched the Sports version @ 29L ex; guess the discounts should get it in the bag quite easily.

2. 3-series - Would have loved to drive, but not really driven in. I believe the new one is better, but having sat in the back of the E90; it frankly is a joke to sit back there with a suit on!

3. A4 - The cheapest of the lot if i am not wrong. But the irony of the matter is its only worth if one goes for the 177bhp petrol; the diesel - though adequate - does leave you feeling short-changed. But it also reminds me of my mechanic when i was in the States; Joe said "Don't be caught dead driving the 1.8T on the Audi". Let's face it (no offence) Audis are not really known for its reliability.

4. Skoda Superb/ VW Passat - Similar drive train, similar features. You can or cannot go wrong with these cars. They do give the most bang for your Gandhis; but be prepared to shell them out just as easily with a breakdown.

(i remember the time i drove from Malad to home with a broken clutch coil)
Well looks are relative so I am in no position to offer feedback, but, IMHO, and this shouldn't make a bit of difference to you is that the 3 series is the best looking of the entire lot. It is also the newest car of any in the above list with surprisingly good leg room for a 3 series. I have a Laura TSI which has a similar 1.8 to the Audi, its a riot to drive and in 3 years of ownership it has only been in the shop for regular maintenance. No complaints here. I think the problem with the Audi is the gear box, the CVT is practically begging for an update. There is a new superb coming out next year, so you should be able to get good discounts on the current model if you are interested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by methecupid View Post

5. Honda Accord - Was our first choice 3 years back when buying the Jetta. 3 years one the only thing changed are the indicators on the ORVMs. Honda seriously needs to wake up!

6. Hyundai Sonata - Was a big fan of the twin headlamp Jaguar-esque design of the first Sonata in India. Remembered jumping with joy having noticed one in Singapore just before it got launched in India. Should be a worth-while contender considering Hyundai is next only to the Suzukis whereas A.S.S. is concerned. Since Diesel/ petrol doesn't matter; the only thing going majorly against it is - like GTO put it - It's not exactly you start a piggy-bank for when young!
I couldn't agree more, the Sonata may be a safe bet, but, it isn't exactly a driver's car. You will hate driving it.

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Originally Posted by methecupid View Post

7. Volvo S60 - Anyone? The last i heard was it was a coupe confused for a luxury sedan and doesn't have a spare tire. Please, someone be kind enough to throw some more light on this. Could be the dark horse
There is next to no legroom in the rear, not sure if it will suit your requirements. But, it is one hell of a machine, check it out. You may be pleasantly surprised!

Quote:
Originally Posted by methecupid View Post

8. Rexton/ Santa Fe/ Fortuner - Really not sure!

9. X1 (on the other hand) can be considered more of a car than the above SUVs. It is currently running incredibly good discounts; which again reminds me of the new one around the corner. Nothing like buying a new car; just to realize the bugger next to you in the traffic is driving the upgraded/ updated version after a month
If SUV's are in the picture, a Volvo XC 60 would be perfect if the budget can be stretched, you will get bored of the car before it gets bored of you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by methecupid View Post

Personally, i am skewed towards the A4 base or the C-class Elegance (both in Petrol avatars). This however, before i read so many of us vouching for the Superb Elegance DSG. It's big - it's classy - it's diesel and it's worth considering. Thanks.
If considering the Germans, look to Bavaria my friend! they offer the best everything at the moment!

warm regards

imp!

Last edited by imp! : 12th December 2012 at 16:48.
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Old 12th December 2012, 17:41   #21
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Default Re: Entry to the holy Trinity (or whatever 25L gives)

Quote:
Originally Posted by methecupid View Post
Personally, i am skewed towards the A4 base or the C-class Elegance (both in Petrol avatars). This however, before i read so many of us vouching for the Superb Elegance DSG. It's big - it's classy - it's diesel and it's worth considering. Thanks.
The A4 base and the C Class offer you ONLY one thing over the Superb for your requirement: "Brand".

But remember that the brand also comes with its associated luggage like repair costs, low resale value and a higher sense of caution on the road.

As someone who comes across as pretty young (early twenties I guess..), I understand your pull towards a "brand" upgrade but when you think of your parents, the Superb is the best choice IMO.
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Old 12th December 2012, 20:14   #22
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Well i am not going to suggest any different - Superb makes a very strong case, based on your notes.

My 2 cents - Since you already have a driver and you don't mind using a Petrol - I would recommend a manual transmission, the TSI motor is whole lot of fun, i have not driven the Superb version, but have had the pleasure of driving a Laura.

With regards to Skoda After Sales - I have not had any complaints from a service perspective. I have used them in Gurgaon and in Hyderabad - May be Mumbai is different.

Best - ML
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Old 12th December 2012, 20:15   #23
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Default Re: Entry to the holy Trinity (or whatever 25L gives)

I guess another name for the Skoda Superb is "Luxo-Barge". That in itself should seal the deal in the favor of the Skoda Superb and frankly is what i would recommend as well. It ticks all your requirements to the T. Given that Navi Mumbai only has JMD whose service reviews are better that should not be so much of an issue. However you may want to consider that there is a facelift due early next year so if you must go for the Superb then bargain hard as there is a INR 162,500 discount already in terms of 150,000 cash and 12,500 corporate discount.

Amongst the germans i would vote for the new 3 series. How about taking a look at the Volvo S60 (its Swedish though) sedan some exclusivity perhaps but you might have to compromise on a few items there plus the service is question mark due to the sparse network.

Hope this helps!
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Old 12th December 2012, 20:23   #24
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You can also consider the petrol manual transmission elegance. There is a price difference of 6 lacs between the TSI and TDI elegance versions and its simply not worth it until and unless you are running upwards of 3000 km a month and are planning on a rather long term ownership. The manual petrol will also be more fun to drive than the auto diesel for you. Since your Dad doesn't drive, I doubt he'd care about an auto or a manual box. It requires only regular petrol so out of town trips won't be an issue. I think it hits the perfect sweet spot for your driving fun and your parents comfort. The resale will be less than the diesel, but if resale is a consideration, then factoring in the time value of those extra 6 lacs over the ownership period should offset the difference in resale.

Edit : Oh nice I see some one pipped me to the suggestion! Makes perfect sense to me. Even I prefer petrols to diesels.

Last edited by imp! : 12th December 2012 at 20:25.
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Old 12th December 2012, 20:26   #25
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Can't you make your parents use the Passat that you own for there daily driving? In that case you can go for a new 3 series and enjoy the badge and the driving charm it offers. At the same time since the rear seat has improved over the earlier versions, it can also be used as a chauffeur driven cars occasionally. Otherwise I would say check out the X1. The Superb Diesel is a fantastic car but it would be exactly like the passat with nothing new to offer. Also the scare of something going wrong on the service front would always be too hard to bear, atleast for me. In short I don't really see the point of owning 2 very similar sedans both of which are known more for there space rather than the drive. On the other hand the BMW offers you something really different.
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Old 12th December 2012, 23:00   #26
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What a sweet dilemma to be in. Go after the brand name and have something to smile about.

Go after a Merc or a BMW or an Audi. Enough fiddling with smaller siblings of german making.

Passat, jetta are just boring in design and offer something as an affordable german cars.

Skip them and move to some real car in form of a 3 series.

My all time favorite is the 530D except for the cost offcourse. The new 535D is so beautiful and brilliant, i told my wife i will invest in a land and when it reaches the point where i can use it to buy a 535D i will buy one.

Having said that and your constraints i would say push a little bit more and move out of Skoda or VW.

BMW is my pick but not a chaueffer driven one.

A4 or C class should be your direction. i like superb but the car is sinned with problems. Not that its bad in reliability, it just a sin that it carries.
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Old 13th December 2012, 08:29   #27
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Currently we own all VWs uptill Passat (barring the bug!); but now looking to let go of our very beautifully aged Jetta. We got her when it was just launched, and still turns head from the unassuming (thanks to our driver bhaiyya for taking such good care; and also to VW who failed to market a perfectly competent car)
Since you’re someone who is used to VW, the new Passat maybe a good option to look at. And, as many others mentioned the Superb TDI DSG or TSI petrol MT are equally good options. I don’t think the ASC experience will be vastly different VW and Skoda. But unless there are heavy discounts, the Passat DSG highline may not fit in the 25-27 lakhs bracket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by methecupid
1. The ex-showroom for the car CANNOT be more than 25-27 Lacs.
2. dad or mom in the back seat ~ 85% of the times.
3. Dad doesn't like cars where you need to have spare ladder in the boot.
4. Mom wants a sunroof!
It may be hard to find an option from the German big 3 sedans to satisfy the above 4 parameters, especially #1 and #4 will be kind of mutually exclusive. If you let go the Sun-roof option, you may possibly find some good deals.

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7. Volvo S60 - Anyone? The last i heard was it was a coupe confused for a luxury sedan and doesn't have a spare tire. Please, someone be kind enough to throw some more light on this. Could be the dark horse

9. X1 (on the other hand) can be considered more of a car than the above SUVs. It is currently running incredibly good discounts; which again reminds me of the new one around the corner. Nothing like buying a new car; just to realize the bugger next to you in the traffic is driving the upgraded/ updated version after a month
The above two are indeed good options to look at. The X1 should come with hefty discounts (since the refresh should be in pretty soon), and the top variant may get into your price bracket. I will say don’t worry too much about the upgrade. Visual changes are minimum. The key updates I believe are (1) trimlines aligned to Sports, Luxury etc., and (2) 8-speed AT.

S60 is actually an excellent option. The Kinetic D3 variant should be around 27 lakhs On-Road, but the Summum D3 with Sunroof and a few add-ons will be above 30 lakhs. It’s worth checking if there are any year end discounts. And I guess you are right on the spare wheel. Similar to BMW, Volvo goes with run-flats and just provide a puncture repair kit. That said, I believe Volvo cars have an advantage of reduced insurance premium compared to rivals in the same segment. Probably worth checking with the dealer (substantial yearly savings).

On a side note, make your current Passat as your parents’ primary drive, and get a Skoda Laura vRS TSI. Fun car, around 7-8 lakhs less than your budget, and it got a Sun-roof as well

Happy shopping!
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Old 13th December 2012, 09:31   #28
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7. Volvo S60 - Anyone? The last i heard was it was a coupe confused for a luxury sedan and doesn't have a spare tire. Please, someone be kind enough to throw some more light on this. Could be the dark horse
You should go through a couple of ownership threads that we have of the ame on the forum. Actually to think of it your case might sound tailor-made for the Volvo. It would give you the European ownership experience and would be strikingly different from the much common trio of Bmw, Merc and Audi. I hardly spot Volvos on roads even now.

BTW what about the Mitsubishi Outlander since fuel is not an issue with you. You might want to check out that too and compare it with the X1.
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Old 13th December 2012, 11:03   #29
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7. Volvo S60 - Anyone? The last i heard was it was a coupe confused for a luxury sedan and doesn't have a spare tire. Please, someone be kind enough to throw some more light on this. Could be the dark horse
I was in recent quandry on the similar subject. My take on the Volvos and the Audis etc. is here - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/luxury...ml#post2724920 (Volvo S60 2012 vs Skoda Superb vs Sonata 2012)

Finally settled for the MT Superb Elegance Petrol - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...t-destiny.html (Skoda Superb - A tryst with destiny) . Go for it and you won't regret it and save your dad 5~6Lacs in the process. Also good discounts going on at this time of the year (upto 2L).
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Old 13th December 2012, 13:22   #30
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Thanks to all who have contributed in getting a beautiful mind some much needed inceptionesque clarity. This has been more than helpful and really have uncluttered a lot of mess that has been there in the last 24hrs.

Reading the scores of review pages, ownership travails and car-bashing alike (i don't really know why i am getting paid at work, while i keep myself entertained otherwise); it has culminated in a few surprising drop-outs (have rested them by the hayside, licking their wounds) whereas a few dark-horses have made a back-door entry.

First casualty, the blue-eyed boy, BMW 3 Series. <dodging all the egg yolks and swollen shoes> Let me explain why! The Gandhis in the bank aren't strong enough to get one. With the new one on the block, there are no discounts and the one that can be bought, should not be called a BMW. At that kind of price, i would expect a bells and whistles. All the base BMW do is whimper!

Secondly, the Volvo S60. With no clearer terms, i will be looking to get one on the second hand market for myself here. It trumps the trinity with 306 bhp, 440 nm torque on tap. But would i want parents to enroll into a crash diet course to squeeze into the rear seat? A big hell no! Dad goes to office in a suit not with Arai helmet. Add to this, the rumored New avatar of the S60 should be ready for launch next year.

Third, the Hyundai Sonata. So let me get this straight - 201 bhp but not a driver's car. Big and luxurious but doesn't handle well to keep the passengers comfortable on the highways. Guess the only people jumping in it (quite literally) will be the kids with all the gizmos and buttons. Too bad, there are none in the family.


As for the cars making up the count for the aforementioned fall-outs - Skoda Superb, Toyota Camry.

Great, so now that we have established the home-stretch starters; let's get some perspective and votes on the following;

1. Audi A4 TFSI
2. Skoda Superb DSG Diesel
3. Mercedes C Class Elegance Petrol
4. Toyota Camry

Last edited by methecupid : 13th December 2012 at 13:29.
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