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Old 26th November 2016, 23:13   #16
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Default Re: Replacement for a 6-year old Superb?

Congratulations V.Narayan on booking the Lexus. Hope to see you again soon along with your new ride at one of the Team Bhp breakfast meets.
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Old 27th November 2016, 12:01   #17
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Default Re: Replacement for a 6-year old Superb?

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checking out the Lexus ES300H
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Delivery is in April'17.
Congrats on booking Lexus, you must be amongst first few customers for Lexus India. Can you share booking experience & the time frame when Lexus dealers will be operational?

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Haven't done a test drive but that is a risk I'll take
I won't suggest you buy something without even seeing or test driving. In my opinion, if you can wait till April and have 75 Lacs to spend -from Auto car figures - or do you have some different numbers do share , I will suggest you try new Mercedes E-Class which we may get in LWB as being discussed in another thread. Lexus will be a no match for Mercedes, understand you will be getting a 40,000 USD Car @ 75 Lac INR whereas E-Class will be 70,000 USD Car @ 65 Lac Having seen both ES and newer E-Class ( regular not LWB) I can tell you Lexus does not hold a candle to E-Class in any way, E-Class will be a segment higher for less amount of money. Buy a Star Care Maintenance package and if you worry about re-sales, I can Guarantee much lower resales for Lexus given the high prices.

Best - book a ticket overseas and go see both cars in person before Lexus takes away advance cheque from your Bank ( Refundable or ?)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post4098500 (2017 Mercedes E-Class caught testing in India!)

Edit - Have a look at Lexus prices in Australia, compare this with Ford Everest aka Endeavour and then you will realise what's actual worth of the car

Lexus - A$ 50,000 INR - 75 Lac
http://www.caradvice.com.au/lexus/es...-lexus-es300h/

Everest / Endeavour A$ 65000 INR 30 Lac
http://www.caradvice.com.au/369140/ford-everest-review/

Last edited by Turbanator : 27th November 2016 at 12:20.
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Old 27th November 2016, 15:07   #18
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Default Re: Replacement for a 6-year old Superb?

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I won't suggest you buy something without even seeing or test driving.
A very good point. I suggest you make it clear to the dealer that you reserve the right to cancel the booking and get your money back if the TD is not satisfactory.

Even if the Lexus you drove abroad was good, you may not get the same specs, color, <whatever other thing you liked> in the India version and an opt out clause is important.
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Old 27th November 2016, 21:29   #19
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Default Re: Replacement for a 6-year old Superb?

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Congrats on booking Lexus, you must be amongst first few customers for Lexus India. Can you share booking experience & the time frame when Lexus dealers will be operational?
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Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
A very good point. I suggest you make it clear to the dealer that you reserve the right to cancel the booking and get your money back if the TD is not satisfactory.
Thank you for your inputs. Turbanator thanks for the article links.

The sticker price on the form was Rs 66.6 lakhs. They are only bringing in the top trim variant. At Rs 75 lakhs I may need a tranquilizer! Sample car is expected in February and delivery in April. Buying experience was good. I had test driven the Camry Hybrid exactly 2 years ago when searching for a new car - eventually bought the Volvo XC60 then. At that point I'd told the Grace Toyota salesman I would look at the Lexus Hybrid if and when it comes and my next car buy date is 2017. He remembered and called me up co-incidentally the day after I first posted this thread. He came home a couple of times and we completed the booking. I have sent them a letter about cancelling the booking if I am not pleased with the test drive. I am quite clear we want a hybrid or hybrid plug-in as a family. Next few years I want to go all electric. Turbanator, to answer your question this was the second ES300 to be booked in NCR. - I am usually not an early adopter.

I'll update you as we go along.
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Old 27th November 2016, 22:56   #20
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Default Re: Replacement for a 6-year old Superb?

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I am usually not an early adopter.
Well, in this case, you have taken a very Bold decision if I may say so

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I have sent them a letter about canceling the booking if I am not pleased with the test drive
Yes, do take confirmation on cancellation charges. I understand Toyota takes hefty cancellation charges on CBU models but I won't know about Lexus.

All the best !
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Old 28th November 2016, 05:49   #21
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Well, in this case, you have taken a very Bold decision if I may say so

All the best !
Turbanator, dost yeh chadti hui budhape ka sanki panna hai [this is a sign of my idiosyncracies due to creeping old age]
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Old 28th November 2016, 14:05   #22
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Default Re: Replacement for a 6-year old Superb?

Idiosyncrasy rarely ever finds a relief in Japan

IMO, a lot of "pros" of buying a Lexus in the west don't apply here. It is not going to be understated, discrete, or VFM on Indian roads. It carries more bling and exclusivity than the far-too-common Germans. It is decidedly underwhelming and less plush on the inside. Most people who can afford this car have multiple cars in the garage, with drivers and staff to deal with any potential downtime, so a rock-solid reliability can not command such a huge premium in our market especially given that the Germans offer decent warranty and service packages now. I feel you are needlessly avoiding the Germans but that's just my opinion. Hope you will like the car when it arrives and have the option to change your mind in case you are not satisfied with it.
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Old 28th November 2016, 15:09   #23
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Default Re: Replacement for a 6-year old Superb?

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Most people who can afford this car have multiple cars in the garage, with drivers and staff to deal with any potential downtime, so a rock-solid reliability can not command such a huge premium in our market especially given that the Germans offer decent warranty and service packages now. I feel you are needlessly avoiding the Germans but that's just my opinion. Hope you will like the car when it arrives and have the option to change your mind in case you are not satisfied with it.
You'll be surprised how important peace of mind can be!
I believe that our family fits that criteria that you have mentioned, but slowly slowly our garage is switching back to the Japs.
The service speed, part availability, etc. are a pain to live with - and no matter how many cars you have in your garage (unless they're all identical), it is still a compromise when your car is in the garage.
We have 4 germans at home, and 2 japs - I can safely tell you that the 50% of the kms the japs have munched up is solely due to one of the Germans being in the garage - and even then, they still have niggles that need to be sorted out unlike the fill it, forget it nature of the Japs.

At the same time, at the prices that Lexus is expecting to command - they are clearly not going to find many takers. I am willing to compromise on some features or a boring design - the ES300H was going to be an ideal replacement for the E60 5 series (given it sees a lot of chauffeur driven use since a while) but definitely not at an estimated 75L ex-showroom as indicated by ACI. At that price, I'd rather get the E350d LWB whenever it comes to town.
However, if they price it at 520d/e250d levels - it would definitely be a strong contender whenever I muster the courage to let the 5 series go (head v/s heart!).
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Old 28th November 2016, 16:56   #24
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I can safely tell you that the 50% of the kms the japs have munched up is solely due to one of the Germans being in the garage
Well, that looks more like an exception. None of mine BMW's have ever spent more time in the workshop than probably anything else I owned including Ford and Toyota. I think both MB & BMW are fairly reliable. Most of the horror stories here on the forum as well in my circle are from Skoda, JLR & Audi. It's a different matter that one lose resales much higher if your German car has done more numbers whereas it does not matter much on a Japanese. For Example, a 3-Year-old 5 series with 80 K will lose much value over similar old but with 30 K whereas mileage on Fortuner or other Japanese cars won't bother much to potential buyers.

I think Lexus is going to use Toyota workshop at the moment and most of the staff is also transferred from existing setup. I don't think they can match the premium experiences of Germans so easily. All in all at the price point that Lexus plans to launch here, beyond few customers especially who have heard horror stories about Germans and good things about Lexus, they will have a hard time finding buyers. Now at 1,5 Cr probably, I would have also thought of LX-450 but at 2 Crore & beyond- Thank you very much Toyota.
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Old 28th November 2016, 22:12   #25
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Default Re: Replacement for a 6-year old Superb?

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Originally Posted by androdev View Post
so a rock-solid reliability can not command such a huge premium in our market especially given that the Germans offer decent warranty and service packages now. I feel you are needlessly avoiding the Germans but that's just my opinion. Hope you will like the car when it arrives and have the option to change your mind in case you are not satisfied with it.
Yup. You guessed right.

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Originally Posted by lamborghini View Post
You'll be surprised how important peace of mind can be!
I believe that our family fits that criteria that you have mentioned, but slowly slowly our garage is switching back to the Japs.
The service speed, part availability, etc. are a pain to live with - and no matter how many cars you have in your garage (unless they're all identical), it is still a compromise when your car is in the garage.
......they still have niggles that need to be sorted out unlike the fill it, forget it nature of the Japs.
Agree Agree

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Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post

It's a different matter that one lose resales much higher if your German car has done more numbers whereas it does not matter much on a Japanese.
I think Lexus is going to use Toyota workshop at the moment and most of the staff is also transferred from existing setup. I don't think they can match the premium experiences of Germans so easily.
You are right I am avoiding the Germans. Several of my business associates, employees and customers who own a Mercedes have a litany of complaints against MB. The status of an MB does not hold enough value for me to compensate for the hassles of maintenance and recurring troubles. BMW I don't care too much for and Audi has been rejected by my boss. For me steady reliable clockwork running and courteous efficient service is key. Peace of mind tops the list. As a joint family our car usage is on the higher side with weekly out station runs on work. So hydro locks and run flats and electronic crashes can't be coped with. Our old model Camry (office utility vehicle) does 3000 kms in NCR each month and is running flawlessly in its 9th year now.

I have arranged to meet, next week, the senior most Lexus business head in North India for a chai pe charcha and will jot down my discussions on Team BHP. Had done the same when the Volvo XC60 came into the garage 2 years ago. In case of our more expensive cars I like reaching out to some senior management member and just have a one on one with him. If you are firm enough they usually oblige. Even General Motors obliged 16 years ago when we purchased a Opel Astra in year 2000! If the Volvo S.90 had come in Hybrid form it would have been my choice. The car is a stunner to look at and the interiors are alluring.

Once the service cycle starts I'll update the thread (or the car review) on the experience.

My sincere thanks to you for your inputs each of which I have read thoughtfully and kept a note of. While my views may occasionally differ each point raised is valid in its own way and important.

Best regards, Narayan

Last edited by V.Narayan : 28th November 2016 at 22:22.
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Old 29th November 2016, 00:13   #26
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Default Re: Replacement for a 6-year old Superb?

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I have arranged to meet, next week, the senior most Lexus business head in North India for a chai pe charcha
Some Masala news to discuss Do keep us updated


Lexus ES 300h

If you are looking for a big luxury car that will mostly be chauffeur-driven, the ES300h, Lexus’ entry ticket into India, is a must have in your list of probables. The ‘h’ in the name stands for the car’s hybrid powertrain – a 2.5-litre petrol paired with an electric motor. It will take on the VW Passat and the Honda Accord hybrids, and like its rivals, the first few models will be CBU imports. However, it shares its hardware with the Toyota Camry –making it easy to build locally – and so, ES300h is likely to be the first Lexus to be assembled in India.

Coming: March 2017
Price: Rs 45 lakh
Engine: 2.5 P + electric

http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-new...-403600.aspx/0
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Old 29th November 2016, 01:20   #27
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Default Re: Replacement for a 6-year old Superb?

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If the Volvo S.90 had come in Hybrid form it would have been my choice. The car is a stunner to look at and the interiors are alluring.
Why not in diesel form though? I can clearly notice your preference for Hybrid, and will like to understand that preference better. Now, in most developed countries (primarily US), Lexus Hybrids provide both easy economy (since its primarily petrol only market) as well as peace of mind. Those are its USPs. The fact that India is a mixed fuel market, coupled with the expected high sticker price, negates both those USPs!

The Volvo S90 ticks both those boxes too - Volvos globally do have a fairly strong reputation for being reliable and overall cheaper to own than Ze Germans. And because its diesel, it will do high miles easily too. I am with you and think the new one oozes class and has its own distinctive Scandinavian design, and Volvo hasn't tried to make a German feel-a-like Swedish car. Minimalist, classy, understated; yet just as beautifully crafted and full of quality. I've also noticed that your family has found the ingress a bit cumbersome due to low seat, which is a sure shot irritant for the elderly. Is it a deal breaker though?

I expect that because you have an existing relationship with Volvo, and the fact that Volvo is aggressively looking to make an impression with their newer cars, Volvo is likely to bend over its back to try and please you. If I were you, I'd re-look at the S-90. Beautiful car.

However, if you (after reading all the suggestions) still strongly feel that the Lexus reliability factor is too overpowering and outweighs the merits of other brands - then, you've made clear decision after much deliberation. Just go with it.

Happy hunting.

Last edited by Abhi_Automobile : 29th November 2016 at 01:31.
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Old 29th November 2016, 08:44   #28
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Some Masala news to discuss Do keep us updated


However, it shares its hardware with the Toyota Camry –making it easy to build locally – and so, ES300h is likely to be the first Lexus to be assembled in India.

Coming: March 2017
Price: Rs 45 lakh
Engine: 2.5 P + electric

http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-new...-403600.aspx/0
Turbanator, I must say you are a very well wired up person. Thank you for the information. Your article link to the car.advice Australia was most useful too and reassured me I hadn't committed a boo-boo!! I'll update all of you on my meeting with the Lexus company manager.
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Old 1st December 2016, 18:17   #29
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This is the car and colour ordered. I have taken it from the dealer in writing that the amount will be refunded if I am not pleased after my test drive and first viewing. Doing that in Dubai on 14th December. Meeting a senior Lexus executive on Saturday 3rd December. Will update this thread on both events.
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Old 3rd December 2016, 17:05   #30
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The executive from Lexus came home, today, for a cup of tea accompanied by the Sales Agent. I had sent him my list of questions which were important to me as a prospective buyer. Discussions held jotted down below.

1. Their showroom is expected to be in Oberoi Gurgaon; to be commissioned in March 2017. A second will be set up in Central Delhi.

2. Service workshop will be at Gurgaon on the Manesar road in the same premises as the Grace Toyota centre. There will be one more for NCR-Delhi region. Each Toyota service centre across India will also be geared up for Lexus to address emergency/limited repair/get the car back on the road kind of support

3. Car and Battery warranty is 3 years or 100,000 kms which ever is earlier. In Australia warranty on the battery is 8 years and in USA 10 years. This is as required by law in those countries. Lexus-Toyotas claim they have not had a battery issue in the last 10 years.

4. Normal full size spare tyre recessed into the dickey and not sitting on top like in some other upper end cars

5. Moves largely in electric mode only for speeds upto 40 kmph

6. Ground clearance 151 cms - same as my Superb

7. Ten airbags

8. The engine air intake is near the top of the engine and not at the bottom (like in most of the German III) so hydro locking is not expected to be an issue.

9. The car can be immersed in a tank of water without the electrics short circuiting. My question was whether the electrics would short circuit or give a shock if the car is wading through 9 inches or more of water logging.

10. Lexus is only made in Japan and now more recently in USA. No plans to produce locally in any country. Only imports will be available in India.

11. They plan to follow a policy of cost effectiveness on repairs and after sales service and not go down the route of some of the other high end car makers where large invoices are the norm. This is a conscious policy from Lexus.

I will update this thread after my test drive in Dubai on 14th December.

The future direction on hybrids being pursued by Lexus-Totota -->

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Mirai

Last edited by V.Narayan : 3rd December 2016 at 17:26.
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