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Old 27th September 2016, 01:50   #106
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Default Re: Luxury Sedan Advice Needed - A6 vs E-Class vs 5-series

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Originally Posted by titan1999 View Post

Thanks for the advice mijnoirhammer67.

You are right in estimating my budget, although this has been stretched from 40l initially. Rear seat comfort doesn't affect me much, only 1 out of every 100 drives would have more than 2 people in the car.

What about front seat comfort?

I have driven the 530d (old model), but not these other two, will drive them both hopefully tomorrow.

The reason I am able to look at this range is due to the massive discounts on offer with the dealers. I don't think the new upcoming E-class or new upcoming 5-series would be anywhere close to this price range. So no use waiting for them.

I didn't mention any of the SUV's in my original comment as they don't appeal to me. They are not part of my consideration.

I am worried about your comment regarding the 530d's brakes, does the 520d also has this issue?

Also, I don't think I will be able to convince the wifey for a Volvo anytime soon. But i will lookout for the S90. However, being new I don't think they will offer any discounts on it.
Well, to be honest only i seem to be complaining about the 530d's brakes. No one else on the forum has brought this issue to light. What i feel about the brakes is that they are far from adequate. They don't offer enough bite, no real zeal present in them. I feel very scared when driving this car due to its brakes. If i am cruising on at about 80 or 100kmph and a sudden situation requires me to break hard, ill be scared taking this car in. Whereas the other BMW i have, the older previous generation X5 (E70) has the 3L diesel engine too, albeit lesser tuned, its braking is so inspiring even at speeds greater than 100. Also, its nearly 400 kgs heavier. The A8, A3 and even the A class has better brakes. Im planning on buying the 6 series and I'm worried ill be facing the same issue. I have sent the car to the workshop once, they told me its completely fine. I do plan on sending it again. Maybe its an issue with only my car. When you TD it again, you can check it. I feel the most important aspect of the TD is the brakes. Whenever TD'ing a car, i always brake hard and aggressively to check them brakes. I bought the 530d without a TD so i don't know how it goes for other cars. Im sure you'll find out tomorrow. Find out exactly what features are present and missing on the M-sport vs the Luxury line. The M sport has better front seats and better bolstered rear seats hence why there is bad legroom out back. The front seats don't offer enough room in my opinion. Like I'm nearly 5'10 but drive with the space of a 7 footer. My legs and hands are completely relaxed in my optimum driving position. So the seating setting for the 5 is completely stretched out for me, it does not go any further back. If it were upto me, id go back just a lil further but out of space so not possible. The side bolstering is wonderful. The seat is rather sunken in, so its at its highest position and feels sufficient for me. The under thigh extension is a boon. Its so comfy and useful for me. Also, the steerings travel range vertically is somewhat limited. The X5 has definitely spoiled me here.

The storage compartments in the front doors can't hold 1 L bottles, such a shame. The fascia around the gear lever is prone to scratches like every other car. Looks ugly after scratches as with every other car. The i-drive is the best in class, no MMI unit or system is as good in my opinion. The 10 inch on the M sport is very helpful in reversing and easy while reading. The HUD is present in the M sport, not in the Luxury line though i never use the HUD. Sound system is just enough, wish it could go higher. M-sport steering is so much better than the luxury line ones, though all are slippery when used with one hand. No real alcantra present and to get an alcantra M sport steering wheel i was quoted 5 lakhs. Tackles all potholes and speed brakers if taken meticulously. M sport rims look better than RR's. No chrome in M sport which is the best thing, i hate chrome. Negotiate for the donut in the purchase of your car. Make em give it for free if it isn't. BTW, i have a feeling the 520d is coming home

Last edited by mijnoirhammer67 : 27th September 2016 at 01:57.
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Old 27th September 2016, 02:12   #107
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Default Re: Luxury Sedan Advice Needed - A6 vs E-Class vs 5-series

No Pre-worshiped options considered? I just checked carwale and see a few 2015 530d's going for 50-55 lakh in Delhi. If these are with a 5 year BSI, may be worth a shot to check them out.

GTO's threads on his pre worshiped beasts have made buying used cars so tempting!
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Old 27th September 2016, 02:22   #108
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Default Re: Luxury Sedan Advice Needed - A6 vs E-Class vs 5-series

Any good deals on the E350D - that may be worth considering!

Personally, I found the 5 Series ride to be too bouncy which took away from the experience.
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Old 27th September 2016, 03:29   #109
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Default Re: Luxury Sedan Advice Needed - A6 vs E-Class vs 5-series

Thanks Akshay and Lamborghini.

I am certainly not disregarding 1-2 years old 530d and E350 options. Will check them out while visiting the BMW and Mercedes dealerships. (The dealership themselves have lots of options as far as used cars are concerned)

Little wary of buying pre-worshipped cars directly of the market. Also Carwale has a lot of options, however I need to buy the car in company name and since my company is registered in Delhi, Only Delhi registered vehicles are applicable.

Planning to test drive the new cars first, that will give me an exact idea how good the used cars are in comparison.

However, I'm afraid the mind will autoblock the used cars, to favor the new ones.


Quote:
Originally Posted by akshaymahajan View Post
No Pre-worshiped options considered? I just checked carwale and see a few 2015 530d's going for 50-55 lakh in Delhi. If these are with a 5 year BSI, may be worth a shot to check them out.

GTO's threads on his pre worshiped beasts have made buying used cars so tempting!



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Originally Posted by lamborghini View Post
Any good deals on the E350D - that may be worth considering!

Personally, I found the 5 Series ride to be too bouncy which took away from the experience.
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Old 27th September 2016, 08:56   #110
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Default Re: Luxury Sedan Advice Needed - A6 vs E-Class vs 5-series

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the dealers here in Delhi are giving the maximum discounts on the worst engines. 10 lakhs for 520i, 6.5 lakhs for 520d and only 3 lakhs for 530d. Putting the 530d with the 5 year BSI and extended warranty package over 75l OTR.
That's, unfortunately correct, however you can get 520-D also with around 10 Lac discount, though I am not sure about M version, perhaps you can plan a trip to the Himalayas sometime and drop me a PM. I will get you connected with right guys here. If you can extend your budget for 530-D by any means, that's the car you should go far.

Quote:
I'm afraid the mind will autoblock the used cars, to favor the new ones.
I will agree, there is something different when you buy as a New and good ones are hard to find in re-sales. You need a lot of patience. But if you can wait for another 3-4 month, expect even larger discounts. Newer 5 should be here pretty fast and at that time whatever variants will be left will go for low rates.

Last edited by Turbanator : 27th September 2016 at 08:58.
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Old 27th September 2016, 09:29   #111
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Default Re: Luxury Sedan Advice Needed - A6 vs E-Class vs 5-series

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Originally Posted by titan1999 View Post
Thanks Androdev!
Seems you have caught on to my subtle BMW bias!
Ha ha, your bias is not subtle and you have a lot of clarity in terms of what you want and what you don't want.

520D won't disappoint you but explore all options to get a 530D. Take up @ Turbanator's offer to get connected to the right folks

If there is an option, opt for a lower trim of 530D. See if you can buy extended warranty alone without service package, or defer buying these packages as you anyway have 2 year standard warranty before you can buy these later. Don't buy BMW branded insurance. Wait for few months to get better discount (absolutely worth it to get 530d). Basically, work backwards

I have a 520d and I thought why would I need a 3L engine at 10lakh premium (back in 2012) but I regret that decision. 2L engine is rough and diminishes the driving pleasure of 5 series. Of course 520d is still much better than competition, 2nd only to 530d.

Don't bother with used car segment, picking a good used car is a skill most of us lack.
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Old 27th September 2016, 10:19   #112
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Default Re: Luxury Sedan Advice Needed - A6 vs E-Class vs 5-series

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Originally Posted by titan1999 View Post
The Contenders (Shortlisted to 2):
- BMW 520D M Sport or Luxury Line (520i rejected due to it being Petrol, My daily drive is 100kms. Although I am getting 10 lakhs discount on the petrol version from Bird Automotive Delhi. 530d is sadly beyond budget)
- Mercedes E250D Avant-garde or Edition E (Same reasons as above, for not choosing other variants)

Considerations:

Self driven: The vehicle will be self-driven 100% of the time, also I run an IT company where I work in Night-shift. So I have the luxury that few people have, empty Delhi roads and highways at 4 AM!

Ride quality: Good ride quality above 100 kmph. Although Delhi roads are good, need something that can be 100% stable at high speeds on the highway. Since it will be mostly me or my wife in the driverís seat (who is also a driving enthusiast!), I will rate ride quality a bit over comfort. Although comfort has to be good considering I have to drive almost 100kms daily, ride quality needs to be excellent.

Ease of maintenance: Which one is relatively cheaper to maintain? BMW or Mercedes? I will get the maximum coverage they offer, so want to know which one is usually cheaper to keep. I havenít had a costly affair with the Jetta till now. Best roadside assistance is also critical, as I usually go on long drives on the weekend, along-with my night shifts during the weekdays.

I also need the car almost daily, so which companyís service centers have the best turn-around time? I have heard horrible stories about Jaguar and Land roverís being kept in the shop for almost a month! This will be a disaster for me!
This is a good choice to be in. Though since you mention self driven 100% I would have to say leave out the Mercedes, unless you get a E350cdi at a great deal. The Mercedes feels lazy and more laid back compared to the BMW. The ride is better, but the BMWs ride isn't bad at all. In terms of driving pleasure the 520d beats the E250cdi hollow, even though it misses a bit of the mid range punch of the Mercs 500nm.

In terms of which variant of the 520d. The M sport looks great, but it misses out on the Harmon Kardon system, which is a big deal for me. The way I see it - Its not thaaaaat quick so why dress it up with all the go fast bits. Leave that for the 530d.

The other option you could consider is the 320d M sport, which is a size smaller but much more fun to drive. Its more nimble, a better handler and is far quicker because its smaller. Its also got features like the heads up display which is great. You will miss features like the digital instrument cluster, Harmon Kardon audio and the feeling of a bigger car. But the driving experience may just change you.

The last option is a pre owned 530d, which in my books is ideal. Look at something like this - http://www.carwale.com/used/cars-in-...rk=7&isP=false
Almost brand new, and a fair price too. Its definitely worth a look, considering its still in warranty and you can buy BSI for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mijnoirhammer67 View Post
Well, to be honest only i seem to be complaining about the 530d's brakes. No one else on the forum has brought this issue to light. What i feel about the brakes is that they are far from adequate. They don't offer enough bite, no real zeal present in them. I feel very scared when driving this car due to its brakes. If i am cruising on at about 80 or 100kmph and a sudden situation requires me to break hard, ill be scared taking this car in. Whereas the other BMW i have, the older previous generation X5 (E70) has the 3L diesel engine too, albeit lesser tuned, its braking is so inspiring even at speeds greater than 100. Also, its nearly 400 kgs heavier.
Is yours the M sport or regular 530d? What tyre size and brand of tyres are you running?
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Old 27th September 2016, 10:37   #113
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If I were in your shoes I would wait,till early next year. Turbanator has quoted things well. 530d has no big enough discounts to buy it now. 520d can be a bit underwhelming for you in the long run. Be patient
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Old 27th September 2016, 10:41   #114
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Default Re: Luxury Sedan Advice Needed - A6 vs E-Class vs 5-series

Guys, when is the new E-Class and the S90 expected to hit our shores? Any confirmations so far?
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Old 27th September 2016, 11:36   #115
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Default Re: Luxury Sedan Advice Needed - A6 vs E-Class vs 5-series

Just a word of caution if you're buying the 5 series for out of the city runs or hill station visits. The 5 series is very susceptible to hydrostatic lock, and more so than some of the other cars mentioned. This is something you need to take into account when deciding.
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Old 27th September 2016, 19:54   #116
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Default Re: Luxury Sedan Advice Needed - A6 vs E-Class vs 5-series

Quick update for all:

Went to both BMW and Mercedes dealerships in Noida (instead of Delhi). Both are giving heavy discounts (~9L) on account of Shradhs. Costing for both 520D M-sport and E250 Edition E is within a whisper of each other. So pricing will not influence the decision now.

Should i wait till December for even more discounts? Will they cross 10 lakhs?

Both the dealerships in Noida, Deutsche motoren (BMW) and Silver Arrows (Mercedes) had knowledgeable and dynamic sales reps. 10/10 as far as experience is concerned. Incidentally both didn't say a bad word about the other brand, but both bashed Audi! Maybe they profiled us somehow. RWD master race!

Have scheduled test drive for both cars tomorrow.

Looked at the GT while at BMW dealership, looks really good. So scheduled a TD for that as well. It will be 7-8 lakhs cheaper than the 5er and E-class.

Initial impressions (Without the Test drive):

Mercedes E250D Launch Edition:

Pros:
- Much more space inside the car, car looks so much more roomier. Much better rear seat leg space, although smaller seats. (Good enough for me)
- Better boot space and a Full size spare! No stupid space saver here.
- Panoramic Sunroof, which makes the car look roomier with the beige interiors.
- Better music system than the M sport, although BMW luxury line with Harman Kardon is better than both M sport and E250D.
- Better Ambient Lighting
- More inside storage spaces

Cons:

- Gear selector behind the steering can be accidentally engaged. Don't feel as ergonomic as BMW's standard gears.
- Foot operate parking brake seems a no-no. I have a habit of relaxing my feet on the sides.
- Infotainment system not so good, i-drive is better.

BMW 520D M - Sport

Pros:
- Looks much more chic and sporty with the aluminium trims on the M-sport. Looks futuristic. Dosent look dated as all, like some users had told me before.
- Bucket seats in front, with excellent thigh support. For a 6 foot, 100 kg guy like me BMW seats almost encompass me from all sides which feels great.
- idrive is excellent.
- Gear selector is better positioned for me, has electronic parking brake and start stop button.

Cons:

- Rear seat space is abhorrent. I think my parents will refuse to sit in this car, I may just reject the car based on this.
- Less boot space, and only a space saver instead of full size alloy. although luggage space is not a big deal for me.
- Inside looks cramped due to the smaller sunroof, bigger seats and cinnamon brown interiors. Looks smaller on the inside than my Jetta.

Also what's with the huge transmission tunnels in both cars (they aren't 4x4s!), no way a 5th person can sit in either car. My Jetta is so much better in this regard.

So far its neck and neck, however the rear seat leg space in BMW may be a dealbreaker. I knew it was bad, didn't know it was this bad. I am 6 footer and there is not even space for a child to sit behind me. Really stupid of BMW.

GT has much better rear space, will see how it drives compared to the 5er tomorrow.

Everything will be based on the TD tomorrow. Mercedes is inching towards the win, BMW has to drive much better to win this race.

Little boy inside me is super excited! No matter what i choose, both the cars are really good overall.
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Old 27th September 2016, 20:51   #117
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Default Re: Luxury Sedan Advice Needed - A6 vs E-Class vs 5-series

Mercedes Guys told me that new E-series will get here end of Q1 2017. Although it expected to be 8-9 lakhs more expensive OTR than the current model, that along-with the 9 lakh discount on the current E-series, will make the new one a whopping 17 lakhs more expensive effectively!

No idea about the S90.

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Originally Posted by DuHasstMich View Post
Guys, when is the new E-Class and the S90 expected to hit our shores? Any confirmations so far?
Thanks Akshay.

As i said before the E350 and 530D are out of my budget. Not interested in buying a pre-worshipped car as well. So unfortunately have to contend with the lower trims for now.

The lack of a better music system in M-sport doesn't concern me that much.

Most of the time I am either talking to someone on bluetooth, or listening to an audio book or podcasts (Ted talks and all). I have realised that my 100km driving time goes by fast when I listen to an audio book. Moreover it helps nowadays that I don't get the time to read any physical book.

I am sure it won't be that bad even when listening to proper music.

As i said before the 320D M Sport is only 7 lakhs cheaper after all the discounts. Makes no sense for me to buy it.

3 series is way too common on the roads these days. 5er still has that badge value.

Will look at the GT sport though.

Rest will be revealed by the test drives planned tomorrow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akshay1234 View Post
This is a good choice to be in. Though since you mention self driven 100% I would have to say leave out the Mercedes, unless you get a E350cdi at a great deal. The Mercedes feels lazy and more laid back compared to the BMW. The ride is better, but the BMWs ride isn't bad at all. In terms of driving pleasure the 520d beats the E250cdi hollow, even though it misses a bit of the mid range punch of the Mercs 500nm.

In terms of which variant of the 520d. The M sport looks great, but it misses out on the Harmon Kardon system, which is a big deal for me. The way I see it - Its not thaaaaat quick so why dress it up with all the go fast bits. Leave that for the 530d.

The other option you could consider is the 320d M sport, which is a size smaller but much more fun to drive. Its more nimble, a better handler and is far quicker because its smaller. Its also got features like the heads up display which is great. You will miss features like the digital instrument cluster, Harmon Kardon audio and the feeling of a bigger car. But the driving experience may just change you.

The last option is a pre owned 530d, which in my books is ideal. Look at something like this - http://www.carwale.com/used/cars-in-...rk=7&isP=false
Almost brand new, and a fair price too. Its definitely worth a look, considering its still in warranty and you can buy BSI for it.
Thanks for the offer Turbanator, Really appreciate your help.

However, I need to get the car registerd in Delhi, In the company name.

Fortunately the dealerships i visited today are giving me ~9+ Lac discounts. Even on the M-sport.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
That's, unfortunately correct, however you can get 520-D also with around 10 Lac discount, though I am not sure about M version, perhaps you can plan a trip to the Himalayas sometime and drop me a PM. I will get you connected with right guys here. If you can extend your budget for 530-D by any means, that's the car you should go far.


I will agree, there is something different when you buy as a New and good ones are hard to find in re-sales. You need a lot of patience. But if you can wait for another 3-4 month, expect even larger discounts. Newer 5 should be here pretty fast and at that time whatever variants will be left will go for low rates.
Ohh man, if only i had the budgets for a new 530D.

Problem is that with the discounts its not a 10 lakh premium, but more than 15 lakhs, would you go for 530D even for this much extra?

I'll test drive 520D, 320D GT and E250 tomorrow, let's see how they hold up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by androdev View Post
Ha ha, your bias is not subtle and you have a lot of clarity in terms of what you want and what you don't want.

520D won't disappoint you but explore all options to get a 530D. Take up @ Turbanator's offer to get connected to the right folks

If there is an option, opt for a lower trim of 530D. See if you can buy extended warranty alone without service package, or defer buying these packages as you anyway have 2 year standard warranty before you can buy these later. Don't buy BMW branded insurance. Wait for few months to get better discount (absolutely worth it to get 530d). Basically, work backwards

I have a 520d and I thought why would I need a 3L engine at 10lakh premium (back in 2012) but I regret that decision. 2L engine is rough and diminishes the driving pleasure of 5 series. Of course 520d is still much better than competition, 2nd only to 530d.

Don't bother with used car segment, picking a good used car is a skill most of us lack.
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Old 27th September 2016, 21:22   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by titan1999 View Post

Cons:

- Gear selector behind the steering can be accidentally engaged. Don't feel as ergonomic as BMW's standard gears.

- Foot operate parking brake seems a no-no. I have a habit of relaxing my feet on the sides.

- Infotainment system not so good, i-drive is better.

-Gear selector is actually very easy to use. Earlier even I was wrongly informed about the awkward placement of drive select lever. But that's not the case. Accidental shift of the lever will never shift the gear while driving.
-Even I'm against this conventional Merc Parking brakes. But as you said it will never come on your way.
- Infotainment is good but not as good as I drive
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Old 28th September 2016, 18:51   #119
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Default Re: The verdict (BMW 520D M Sport vs Mercedes E250D)

Update after test drive of 520D M-Sport, 3 series GT Sport, Mercedes E250D

I will not repeat the points i had mentioned earlier. Without the test drive the Mercedes E250 was leading the BMW 520D. Mercedes has more space inside, has more features and looks more luxurious. If you want a chauffer driven vehicle, buy the Mercedes without any question.

BMW has few critical flaws which I pointed out in my previous posts. Especially the poor rear leg space and the lack of a proper spare wheel.

However after test driving them both, there is no competition.

BMW 520D M Sport wins hands down in every department vis-a-vis driving pleasure.

1. Smoother gear shifts. You don't feel the gears lagging for a second. Even the Paddle shifts responded better. (Best gearbox of any car I have ever driven). Mercedes gears had terrible lag.
2. Better acceleration and braking. Although Mercedes is not far behind on this.
3. Better driving dynamics. Although the Mercedes has a smaller turning radius.
4. I prefer the seat controls on the side of the seat, than on the door.
5. Better location of parking brake button and gear selector lever. Hate the foot operated parking brake in the Mercedes.
6. Front seats of 520D were built for a 6 footer like me, they are so much better. Better side and thigh support.
7. Dakota leather in the 5er has a softer feel compared to the man-made Artico leather in the Mercedes.
8. idrive is so much better to use, especially while driving.
9. The new M-sport dashboard comes alive in the Sport mode. Looks so much better than the 520D Luxury line or the Mercedes. Looks like a cockpit!

I will not compare 3 Series GT Sport to the 520D M sport as GT was a class below in every way to the 5er.

I disagree 100% with everyone who said that 320D GT has a better drive than the 5er. Even the 320D which i test drove last week had a much better drive than the GT.

Only negative that the 520D has is that its not the 530D. 530D will be my next car for sure.

Thanks to fellow BHPians for their kind words and advice.

Hunt now continues for the best deal and finance schemes on the 520D M-Sport all over Delhi NCR.

Will update everyone, when i finally make the purchase.
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Old 28th September 2016, 19:57   #120
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Default Re: The verdict (BMW 520D M Sport vs Mercedes E250D)

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Originally Posted by titan1999 View Post
Only negative that the 520D has is that its not the 530D.
Make it large. Seriously, if you wish to keep it for long and your financial future look promising. Assume you'll keep the car for 5 years, you can easily assign a value of 3 Lacs per year to own 530D instead of 520D.

530D is special. You should test drive both of them back to back to see if the difference is justified in your opinion. 520D will do in case you want to stick to the budget.
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