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Old 18th June 2013, 01:20   #46
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Default Re: This is interesting to note about Hyundai Sonata

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Its always the economics! If budget permits I would always pick up the later model. If not for anything else at least for resale at a later date and possibly for the upgrades on the facelift.
Its always the economics. - So true.
Yeah if money didn't rule, Transform, it would be blindly or may be the Germans. However the liberties of the salaried class is limited, even for the ones with decent paychecks. Money is the only reason we end up wondering about alternatives.
I found all the quantifiable parameters the same between Transform and Embera. The foremost criteria was to have a comfortable ride where one could do a weekend+2days round trip of about 2k kms in comfort, making the best of bachelor days and still get back to work without body aches.
This Hyundai is among the better ones and even the external looks are the same, except for the substandard dash, which we are preparing to accept. :-)
So you still have your Civic or have you swapped it?
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Old 18th June 2013, 07:36   #47
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Default Re: This is interesting to note about Hyundai Sonata

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Its always the economics. - So true.
Yeah if money didn't rule, Transform, it would be blindly or may be the Germans. However the liberties of the salaried class is limited, even for the ones with decent paychecks. Money is the only reason we end up wondering about alternatives.
I found all the quantifiable parameters the same between Transform and Embera. The foremost criteria was to have a comfortable ride where one could do a weekend+2days round trip of about 2k kms in comfort, making the best of bachelor days and still get back to work without body aches.
This Hyundai is among the better ones and even the external looks are the same, except for the substandard dash, which we are preparing to accept. :-)
So you still have your Civic or have you swapped it?
Still holding on to the Civic. It has done 47k kms overall. Would probably look at replacing it next year.
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Old 18th June 2013, 11:03   #48
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Default Re: This is interesting to note about Hyundai Sonata

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.
2009 Sonata Transform: About Rs. 8 L to 8.5 L
2009 Sonata Embera: About Rs. 6.7 L to 7.2 L
2008 Sonata Embera: About Rs. 5.5 L to 6.0 L
2007 Sonata Embera: About Rs. 4.7 L to 5.2 L
Among these the 2007 Embera should be about 3.75-4
The 2008 Embera about 4.5, the 2009 Embera about 5.5, the 2009 Transform about 7

So yep there is that difference in price between the Embera and the Tansform but here there were some changes and there may have been some mechanical improvements too which we may not know about. Yet the prices quoted are a bit higher then they should be - But I guess they would be negotiable.

Do note 3 years down the line all of these will be at quite a low resale value, so attempt to get as good a deal as possible.
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Old 18th June 2013, 19:59   #49
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Default Re: This is interesting to note about Hyundai Sonata

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Among these the 2007 Embera should be about 3.75-4
The 2008 Embera about 4.5, the 2009 Embera about 5.5, the 2009 Transform about 7

Yet the prices quoted are a bit higher then they should be - But I guess they would be negotiable.
Thanks ACM, that is a valuable input but is it that low? Those prices I mentioned are the final brackets the local Hyundai dealer told me, he didn't sound like it was negotiable even by little, (please note being Hyundai Advantage prices it could be higher by 30k/40k - an average margin they keep, also this guy is a common friend), moreover is this difference due to the basic fact that the average resale value of cars is higher by about 50k - 100k in Goa than other places like Mumbai or Pune or Ahmedabad. Also the average running of cars in Goa too is higher than other places like Mumbai/Pune/Ahmedabad.
For instance I believe 2007 Civic's are available in Mumbai for as low as 4 L, however an acquaintance picked a 2007 Civic @ 57k kms here for 5.5 L recently (petrol prices are lower in Goa). Also the local newspaper recently carried an ad for a 2009 Transform and the guy is asking 9 L, of course it will be negotiable but I doubt by 2 L. We'll end up waiting for long for a good deal.
Your evaluation has completely derailed our current calculations, please help me understand hence. Appreciate it. :-)
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Old 18th June 2013, 22:31   #50
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Default Re: Used Hyundai Sonata Embera

@ ACM please let me know whether my reasoning is correct, because if you are correct that would mean we end up paying for a 2007 model, a 2009 car's price.
Please note I am referring to the Sonata Diesel only and not the petrol model which will fetch lower.

I'd appreciate all who can provide their inputs in regards to this, it is important as my mind is spinning out of control. There has been a colossal shift in the price thresholds.

@ Flypsyde - I sense another happy Civic owner. Civic is a great car, worshiped by many still. Hope Honda makes the replacement model desirable too, since this one is so good.

Last edited by s_pphilip : 18th June 2013 at 22:40. Reason: Notify that the prices are for the diesel cars in case ACM has quoted for petrol model in error
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Old 19th June 2013, 09:53   #51
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Default Re: Used Hyundai Sonata Embera

^^^

Yes In Goa the vehicles tend to be driven more due to the way it is structured (Linear from Panji to Verna to Margao and distance between any two nodes is 20-30 kms or even more. But Goa too has very heavy rains and narrow roads requiring the vehicle to go on to the side skirting often and hence the vehicles are not really in that great a condition after a few years. (even compared to Mumbai which too is at the Sea)

Vehicles in Goa cost a lot lesser than in Mumbai and are even more cheaper when compared to Bangalore due to the lower taxes.

Lower purchase price does tend to imply lower cost of purchase.

In Goa due to the lesser number of vehicles being sold the options though would be limited. That Said the Hyundai dealer would be considerably more expensive than dealers. (The difference need not be as low as 40K and can be even 1L+ for some vehicles).

I suggest you look at outside dealers for vehicles with a proper service history. It is harder to search but worth it for the price you are likely to get.
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Old 19th June 2013, 11:19   #52
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Default Re: Used Hyundai Sonata Embera

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^^^
But Goa too has very heavy rains and narrow roads requiring the vehicle to go on to the side skirting often and hence the vehicles are not really in that great a condition after a few years. (even compared to Mumbai which too is at the Sea)

In Goa due to the lesser number of vehicles being sold the options though would be limited. That Said the Hyundai dealer would be considerably more expensive than dealers. (The difference need not be as low as 40K and can be even 1L+ for some vehicles).

Thanks ACM for clarifying. Really appreciate your time here. I agree to your points and we would not really mind picking one from Mumbai provided there is a way to verify the car history.
Though we will be buying the car from Hyundai Advantage, this car belongs to a local political figure who is known in our common circles. He swapped the car for a new Merc (same guys own Hyundai and Merc showroom) and I got to know from our common friend he sold for about 5 L. Moreover the sales rep is also an old acquaintance hence he will not bloat the margin by much. Goa being a small state this is possible. :-)
If they themselves have swapped for 5 L I believe Goa may have a better resale. Another plus picking from Hyundai advantage is they are willing to offer 1 yr extended warranty applicable all over India for additional 10 k which is some kind of peace of mind.
Of course we did try looking at several cars from independent dealers, a 2008 Altis GL manual was under the hammer a couple of months back and went for 6.5 L. I think Mumbai has a better rate to offer and so will be a similar story.
I love this site for this, there is so much information on offer, thanks ACM again, and let me your feedback.
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Old 19th June 2013, 14:06   #53
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Default Re: Used Hyundai Sonata Embera

^^

Will suggest you stick to Goa and buy the best priced vehicle that you can pick up there. Yes Extended warranty of 1 Year will be good to have.

Further to just explain a trick used by authorized dealer while buying back a vehicle: Many times dealers give a big value for an older vehicle being exchanged rather than dive a discount on the new vehicle. The Seller will compare with prices in the market outside and tend to select the option of going with the dealer because of the price offered on his used vehicle. It is a marketing gimmick so the price at which a vehicle has been bought in exchange need not necessarily be the limit on the sale price to the next owner (as he had actually taken a hit in lieu of a greater profit on the new vehicle he sold)
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Old 20th June 2013, 01:35   #54
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Default Re: Used Hyundai Sonata Embera

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^^

Will suggest you stick to Goa and buy the best priced vehicle that you can pick up there. Yes Extended warranty of 1 Year will be good to have.

Further to just explain a trick used by authorized dealer while buying back a vehicle: Many times dealers give a big value for an older vehicle being exchanged rather than dive a discount on the new vehicle. The Seller will compare with prices in the market outside and tend to select the option of going with the dealer because of the price offered on his used vehicle. It is a marketing gimmick so the price at which a vehicle has been bought in exchange need not necessarily be the limit on the sale price to the next owner (as he had actually taken a hit in lieu of a greater profit on the new vehicle he sold)
Thanks ACM for being with me patiently through out this discussion. Yes the additional extended warranty factors plays big on our minds though it comes at an additional price, which is what we find attractive in this deal.
Also I believe Advantage inspection will ensure the car is not abused.
Your words have been playing foremost on my mind all day and hence today we got the first owner's no and called him, he mentioned he bought a New Verna and cancelled his plan to buy a Merc. He now has ordered some other car instead of the Merc from Mumbai though he didn't tell which car.
I believe the dealer margin on Verna could be about 20k-30k, but that is something we may not be able to push into our argument to bargain with the dealer.
The first owner said point blank that it is a well maintained car. As mentioned earlier it belongs to a local political figure and has a VIP no :-).
Details of the car are: Manufactured: July 2007. Registered: July 2008. Kms: 78k kms. Color: White. Car is in stock form and Advantage guys maintain they did some touch up and basic servicing which is worth some 10-15k.
We asked the owner on the gap in the manufactured and registered date and he said even he wasn't aware of it, he had to wait for a month after booking and bought it for 17 L. He is very happy with this car and he says this is the only car he kept for 5 years, rest he swaps in 3-4 yrs.
I must say buying a pre-owned car is not a cake walk with all the discussions, calculations, stress and mind games involved. Thank God for T-Bhp. Some place where we can put our 'minds wrecking havoc' to rest.
Good part is we have T-Bhp stickers ready, from my previous order which we will use on this. I don't see a lot of T-Bhp cars in Goa except those occasional KA/MH or other states cars driving in for vacations. We are proud to flaunt it and be part of the premium car fan tribe. Thanks again to ACM and T-BHP and all the Gurus there. Cheers.
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Old 20th June 2013, 02:59   #55
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Default Re: Used Hyundai Sonata Embera

Also to add, I even drove the car today, my 2 cents,
It looks good from outside, especially from rear and definitely feels premium because of the size and weight.
Inside except for the dashboard which lacks cohesiveness and flow (The dash feels like it is designed by 4 separate guys at 4 corners and they just placed the 4 pages of different parts together and called it a dash), The plastic in the bottom half is hard and ugly.
The rest is pretty good, with the heavy doors and large seats, the leather does the trick, it feels from a higher class.
The car stalls massively in 2nd gear when you lift off, every time you slow you have to slip into 1st. The 6th gear is useless unless you are about 120 kmph, I think. At 80 kmph in 6th gear the car feels like it is running in neutral gear, press the accelerator and nothing happens.
I am positive on expressways it will be great - staid and graceful. I didn't miss any shifts nor find any difficult to slot. But some how I didn't feel it running away in any gear like 3rd or 4th, maybe gear ratios aren't right.
Massive initial lag and even after 2k/2.5k rpm it doesn't feel like it likes to hurry. I've driven the earlier Elantra long back and the same engine I feel is more powerful.
Maybe the bulk masks speeds. I briefly did 110 kmph and didn't feel it.
I pressed the clutch and revved till 4/5 k rpms and it went all the way, didn't feel it struggle, though it was coarse.
The car tracks straight, 2 wheels off the road and nothing happens to the car, it is really absorbing. Your body does not rock or shake if the road below changes.
Brakes are disappointing or maybe that is some thing to be checked. The dealer says the pads were changed during their check-up after purchase. I don't have any earlier experience driving Embera to relate to, but it does not feel like Skoda's, this starts to bite and then some where looses the plot.
I am not confident of the brakes, other users please let me know if this needs inspection.
Though I don't have much experience driving big cars -I mean this long- but during the drive the Embera seemed to shrink around me, of course could not cut and dart but still could weave my way, also cars ahead somehow automatically made way, Goan roads are narrow and most road users have small cars or bikes.
Since there weren't suitable roads I could not try high speed cornering or handling but we am fully aware this car is not meant for it and we are fine with it. We want it for comfort and space.
Maybe because of the surrounding noise of other road users, the engine noise was faint, of course we weren't revving the pants off, I feel it is adequately damped for NVH. We were talking really softly inside the car and could hear each other clear.
The horn is pathetic, You can't even hear it inside the car, they say it is the original horn, I wonder how the first guy lived with it, more over when he claims he used this car for long distance drives.
Steering is really light, does not feel heavy at all, also has wooden finish, I would have preferred leather here as it feels better to grip.
The music player is average, maybe because we were playing a radio station, but in general the FM reception is pretty good in Goa, at least near Panjim. I could not feel additional bass from the woofer.
I liked the small things like hook for bags, electric seat and mirrors (foldable too), cup holders, bass woofer, arm rests, central compartment, felt under-lining for compartments, subtle lighting for vanity mirrors etc.
There aren't any bottle holders in the doors, that's a negative for a highway car.
The boot is HUGE, wow really liked it. Two can sleep inside.
One thing the car was parked against the dealers wall which is white, he claims they used to start it daily, there are two black marks of soot the size of a clenched fist on the wall where the exhaust would throw up. Is it something to be worried about?
Under the extended warranty they claim you have everything covered like a new car, except consumables and wear and tear parts.
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Old 20th June 2013, 12:21   #56
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Default Re: Used Hyundai Sonata Embera

Do you not have the option of a pre-owned Skoda Laura of similar age at similar price. If the vehicle is going to be self driven and back seat space is not to much of a concern then this might be a better purchase at similar price points, and give more joy. Alternatively a 2008 Accord for about 8L too would be good idea if petrol as a fuel is fine
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Old 20th June 2013, 22:45   #57
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Well petrol is not a problem as long as it is not a gas guzzler, which apparently the accord is known for. Skoda's are my personal favorite reflecting right down to my passwords but my friend is a bit wary, we though did hunt for a diesel Laura but could not get our minds to settle on one. We even saw a 2011 TSI for 8.5 L, but couldn't convince ourselves. Firstly most diesel Laura's had covered more than a lac, secondly exorbitant spares, a colleague had to shell out 15k to replace power window switches for a small Polo, fear to think what it could be for Laura, thirdly stray reports of inconsistent quality, we hence always approached a Skoda's suspiciously for fear of being a lemon, fourthly, availability of Spares, lastly lack of rear seat space, reason, our cheerful close friend is quite round @ about 100+ kgs, he does slide into the co-passenger seat of the Swift without complaints but we know "space" and he will be real happy. We hang together and if he has to join us on our interstate trips, the only way to convince him is "space". He also does not like speed. Incidentally he has made his mind on the 2006 Accord and is looking for one.
We did flirt with many other makes and seriously considered the City, Civic and Altis, all reliable spacious cars, almost closing on a 2008 Altis GL, but were piped to the post by another buyer @ 6.5 L. This is the next one that fit the bill, though it has its share of eyesores, that wooden steering looks part of a vintage car, the dash lacks design, does not feel quick and really poor braking which we definitely will get checked as it does not sync with the highway speeds the car can do. The plus's are space, sofa like comfort, diesel diet and Hyundai ASS, which were our priorities, I think it makes for a really competent comfortable economy D-segmenter. This will not be our regular run about and will be for those occasional interstate drives. Hence the cumulative mileage it builds up over a span may be low, but these trips could each be about 2k kms or more, depending on how many official leaves we get, like drive down to Kerala or MP/Gujrat or something like that.
We checked several cars and felt all are priced higher than what it is in Mumbai/Pune hence we decided to accommodate a marginal hike.
unless we find a real reason not to pick it, we should probably be settling this one.
My sincere gratitude for walking with us the distance. Thanks ACM. I should keep you posted.
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Old 21st June 2013, 19:44   #58
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Default Re: Used Hyundai Sonata Embera

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^^
Yes Extended warranty of 1 Year will be good to have.
ACM do you have any idea whether the Embera suffers from poor braking. The braking feels plasticky, not confidence inspiring. I will get it checked and if needed replace components which is what prompts us to pursue extended warranty.
I would also appreciate all past/present users to share their feedback on the Embera crdi's performance and ownership.
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Old 21st June 2013, 21:14   #59
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Default Re: Used Hyundai Sonata Embera

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ACM do you have any idea whether the Embera suffers from poor braking. The braking feels plasticky, not confidence inspiring. I will get it checked and if needed replace components which is what prompts us to pursue extended warranty.
I would also appreciate all past/present users to share their feedback on the Embera crdi's performance and ownership.
s_pphilip, I own a Feb 2008 Sonata Embera AT Petrol. I bought it used in Aug 2011 for little over 4 lakhs at 45k km done. Got it checked by Hyundai and pulled all the service records before buying. Mine is petrol while you are looking for the CRDI, but if the following helps you, you're welcome.

My wife and I wanted a "big" car, AT and airbags mandatory. The Embera is a fine car - reliable, safe, staid driving, low maintenance, and comfortable. It will happily munch highway miles for hours on end at 120kmph without tiring you. Like a Buick. This car is my daily drive as well.

Never ever felt the brakes were iffy. Rather, quite a few times on the highway I've had to stand on the brakes (inevitable in India) and the car always stopped quickly without any fuss. I can't comment on the acceleration, since I always drive with a very light foot, preferring to slowly and smoothly bring the car up to speed and then maintaining that speed instead of accelerating madly and braking wildly. But whenever I have needed extra power (for sudden manoeuvres) the big 2.4 litre engine has responded immediately. Similarly while stopping I just take my foot off the accelerator well ahead and let the car coast down as much as possible.

Since I bought the car I have driven it Delhi - Haridwar, Delhi - Chamba, Delhi - Pune (with my only my dog for company), Pune - Bangalore - Salem - Bangalore - Pune, Pune - Alibagh, Pune - Bombay - Pune, etc. Never once had a single problem - touch wood. My wife and I are able to take turns driving, and the massive boot can swallow all the luggage needed by us for ourselves, our son, and our dog.

VERY comfortable seats, powerful automatic AC, good lights, cavernous boot, good visibility all round, and decent stereo (radio, 6-CD changer, and tape deck). I miss a cruise control on the highways. During hill driving I tend to use the manumatic transmission to force the car to stay in 3rd or 2nd, especially while coming downhill. Otherwise it is always just D.

Size (especially length) makes it tricky to navigate within tight city spaces, parking can be troublesome (you don't want to park near other cars who will ding you with their doors), and mileage isn't the greatest.

Cost of ownership is reasonable, Hyundai are not thieves like Skoda. I've had good experience with their ASC in NCR and now in Pune.

Feel free to ask me anything else you want to ask about the Embera and I'd be happy to help if I can.
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Old 21st June 2013, 23:18   #60
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Default Re: Used Hyundai Sonata Embera

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s_pphilip, I own a Feb 2008 Sonata Embera AT Petrol. I bought it used in Aug 2011 for little over 4 lakhs at 45k km done. Got it checked by Hyundai and pulled all the service records before buying. Mine is petrol while you are looking for the CRDI, but if the following helps you, you're welcome.

My wife and I wanted a "big" car, AT and airbags mandatory. The Embera is a fine car - reliable, safe, staid driving, low maintenance, and comfortable. It will happily munch highway miles for hours on end at 120kmph without tiring you. Like a Buick. This car is my daily drive as well.

Never ever felt the brakes were iffy. Rather, quite a few times on the highway I've had to stand on the brakes (inevitable in India) and the car always stopped quickly without any fuss. I can't comment on the acceleration, since I always drive with a very light foot, preferring to slowly and smoothly bring the car up to speed and then maintaining that speed instead of accelerating madly and braking wildly. But whenever I have needed extra power (for sudden manoeuvres) the big 2.4 litre engine has responded immediately. Similarly while stopping I just take my foot off the accelerator well ahead and let the car coast down as much as possible.

Since I bought the car I have driven it Delhi - Haridwar, Delhi - Chamba, Delhi - Pune (with my only my dog for company), Pune - Bangalore - Salem - Bangalore - Pune, Pune - Alibagh, Pune - Bombay - Pune, etc. Never once had a single problem - touch wood. My wife and I are able to take turns driving, and the massive boot can swallow all the luggage needed by us for ourselves, our son, and our dog.

VERY comfortable seats, powerful automatic AC, good lights, cavernous boot, good visibility all round, and decent stereo (radio, 6-CD changer, and tape deck). I miss a cruise control on the highways. During hill driving I tend to use the manumatic transmission to force the car to stay in 3rd or 2nd, especially while coming downhill. Otherwise it is always just D.

Size (especially length) makes it tricky to navigate within tight city spaces, parking can be troublesome (you don't want to park near other cars who will ding you with their doors), and mileage isn't the greatest.

Cost of ownership is reasonable, Hyundai are not thieves like Skoda. I've had good experience with their ASC in NCR and now in Pune.

Feel free to ask me anything else you want to ask about the Embera and I'd be happy to help if I can.
Thanks for stepping in to help Pacifica, this really helps and yes if anything I sure will reach you.
It is reassuring to know that you had a real pleasant experience and its amazing that despite the petrol prices you literally traveled from North to South. I am expecting a similar euphoria with-in us after our ownership experience. I agree to whatever you mentioned about the car, only that I find the breaking inadequate and lower rpm power lag annoying for the crdi.
I can't understand whether the braking has something to do with this car in particular or was it a design flaw. We were not aggressive in driving. I am expecting more opinions and also a way around it. Thanks again.
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