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Old 20th January 2012, 00:44   #136
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Default re: Advice on CNG Conversion

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Originally Posted by ptaneja View Post
Dude the problem here is not about the cost - I can still live with the fact that I have invested double the $$, but what about 1 year warranty that Apra will provide on "true value vehicle" which would be gone If I get the kit installed from outside source ?

Anyone has a known buddy in Apra with whom I can talk to ?

I have a K - series Ritz, running on a conventional kit installed by an independent installer. The car has done 50k km and is running perfectly fine.

The issue with sequential kits is not the kit itself but the delicate installation procedure, a slight error could mean a lot of expense.

As far as Apra warranty on true value, doesn't make sense because post CNG it wont remain Maruti warranty but will become an Apra only warranty. (How much of it they actually honor, is anyone's guess.)

My advice have a look at my thread and call up a few more Maruti Service Stations and find out their opinion.

Link to my thread: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...onversion.html (Maruti Suzuki Ritz Petrol to CNG conversion)
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Old 20th January 2012, 08:29   #137
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Default re: Advice on CNG Conversion

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Originally Posted by maglev View Post
I have a K - series Ritz, running on a conventional kit installed by an independent installer. The car has done 50k km and is running perfectly fine.

The issue with sequential kits is not the kit itself but the delicate installation procedure, a slight error could mean a lot of expense.

As far as Apra warranty on true value, doesn't make sense because post CNG it wont remain Maruti warranty but will become an Apra only warranty. (How much of it they actually honor, is anyone's guess.)

My advice have a look at my thread and call up a few more Maruti Service Stations and find out their opinion.

Link to my thread: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...onversion.html (Maruti Suzuki Ritz Petrol to CNG conversion)
Yea, I have seen your Ritz conversion to CNG thread before. And Apra warranty makes sense because I have seen them honor it - my own Swift ZXi which is now approx 1.10L Kms driven is on CNG since it reached 30k kms on odo. And during the warranty they have replaced multiple faulty parts which came up in normal servicing wear and tear. So far I have good experience with Apra in regards to True Value, Servicing and Warranty Honor in place of Maruti.

What I have been trying to grasp is the advantage of having sequential kit -
all I hear is -
"its better" - in which form better? more mileage ? less missing/firing ?
"you don't have to go for setting adjustment too often" ---well on my normal kit too I don't go for any sort of setting adjustment more than once a year ...

So what exactly is the technical enhancement in Sequential over normal kit that would cost me double ? For my running kms per month, I would recover the cost of normal kit in 6 months, and sequential kit would take a good 12/13 months.
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Old 22nd January 2012, 23:21   #138
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Default re: Advice on CNG Conversion

Hi Team,
Today I decided and finally got my k series Wagon R Vxi 2011 model, converted to CNG.
The kit installed was M Sequent , which is made in
Poland @ 41000 INR, including paper work.
I was really cursing myself that why I waited so long and wasted so much money on petrol.
I have driven 10000 km since last Jan.
As it is already known to those who have k series Wagon R that real juice is after 1500 rpm, so while on CNG 1000 mark is already on standby while car is not in motion,hence u press the gas paddle slightly and see the magic.

I can say now that sequential kits are really made for k series engine which are advance and more modern in terms of adaptability to modern alternative of fuels.
I will definitely post the pics and experience soon after 5 or 6 days.I can tell that n number of questions may arise on CNG conversions but the reality is that it is the future fuel, it will be better to experience its on your own rather than just getting trapped in ifs and buts. E.g. Getting married. : )
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Old 8th February 2012, 19:49   #139
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Default Swift VXi CNG Conversion

Hi All

This is my first thread on Team BHP but I am a regular reader of the forums at this great site. I really like the way Fellow BHPians help each other and share the information. I am starting this thread to get advise on the CNG Conversion of Swift VXi.

I am from Mumbai and I own a Sept 2006 Swift VXi which has done only 28000 kms till now. The car is in very good condition and is sparingly used. Now I plan to convert this car into CNG as now I travel around 60 Kms everyday.

I did some research on team bhp and found there are 3 different types of Kits:
1) Open Loop (w/o Lamda & TAP)
2) Closed Loop (with Lamda & TAP but would require a reconfiguration if battery is disconnected)
3) Advanced Closed Loop (with Lamda & TAP and would not require a reset if battery is disconnected)

I had contacted two renowed names for CNG Conversion in Mumbai. One of them GreenGlobe Mulund is suggesting GREECO Kit and the other one Dashmesh Auto Wadala is suggesting Tomasetto or Buggati Kit. Both are saying that these are closed loop kits and are best for Swift. They say only this kit is available and there is no kit available which would not require any reset if the battery is disconnected.

For Greeco Kit its 34k and for Tomasetto and Buggati its 35k inc of RTO Passing.

I need help on the below points from all you fellow BHPians
1) How does Swift Perform on CNG and whats the mileage and the increase in maitenance if any due to conversion? (Fellow Swift Owners who have converted may share their experiences.)
2) Which kit is best for Swift Greeco, Tomasetto or Buggati or anyother Brand?
3) Which fitter is better of the two GreenGlobe or Dashmesh?
4) Is it true that there is no kit available which does not require reset if the battery is disconnected?
5) Given the fact that my Swift is a Sep 2006 model its already 5 and half years old, is it really worth to convert. The car is in excellent condition though.

Please advise what should I do and how should I go about this conversion.

All your help and advise would be greatly appreciated.

Regards
Abhishek

Mods note: Please use Search before opening a new thread. Thanks.

Last edited by Jaggu : 8th February 2012 at 19:58. Reason: Please use Search before opening a new thread. Thanks.
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Old 8th February 2012, 20:51   #140
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Default Re: Swift VXi CNG Conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by caabhishek View Post
I need help on the below points from all you fellow BHPians
1) How does Swift Perform on CNG and whats the mileage and the increase in maitenance if any due to conversion? (Fellow Swift Owners who have converted may share their experiences.)
I get around 20-22 miles per kg on CNG. But note that you will be spending 500-1000 on petrol other than the CNG consumption.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caabhishek View Post
2) Which kit is best for Swift Greeco, Tomasetto or Buggati or anyother Brand?
I was also offered Greco by Greenglobe - but I chose BRC because I hadn't heard about Greco - but Greenglobe does a lot of Greco, so I assume that's also a good kit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caabhishek View Post
5) Given the fact that my Swift is a Sep 2006 model its already 5 and half years old, is it really worth to convert. The car is in excellent condition though.
Mine was around 4 years old & had done around 53000 kms, I think. With 60 kms a day, your breakeven on the cost should be around a year or less, I think.
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Old 8th February 2012, 21:29   #141
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Default Re: Swift VXi CNG Conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by caabhishek View Post

I need help on the below points from all you fellow BHPians
1) How does Swift Perform on CNG and whats the mileage and the increase in maitenance if any due to conversion? (Fellow Swift Owners who have converted may share their experiences.)
2) Which kit is best for Swift Greeco, Tomasetto or Buggati or anyother Brand?
3) Which fitter is better of the two GreenGlobe or Dashmesh?
4) Is it true that there is no kit available which does not require reset if the battery is disconnected?
5) Given the fact that my Swift is a Sep 2006 model its already 5 and half years old, is it really worth to convert. The car is in excellent condition though.

Mods note: Please use Search before opening a new thread. Thanks.
Hey Abhishek !

My Swift ZXi is 1st Sep 2006 model - driven for around 1.10Lakh kms - out of which 85k kms are on CNG alone - so I can safely bet that you'll not regret the conversion.

1. I get approx 200 - 225kms per 300rs worth of CNG filled. Maintenance cost doesn't increase, its just that instead of getting it serviced every 10k kms, you'll have to get it done every 8k kms or so. Throttle cleaning, injector cleaning, spark plug change etc would be the normal expense.

2. On my two cars I have BRC and Tomasetto - both running absolutely fine. More than the brand, it's the workmanship that counts - the installer has to be an experienced fellow.

3. Don't know about either - from Delhi!

4. I have multiple times disconnected battery and reconnected it - have not faced an issue with CNG which requires a visit to dealer. Maybe I am getting the question wrong ?

5. Well it depends on whether you want to keep the car for another couple of years - because your 32k kit will pay itself up in one year - then you would definitely need another year to reap some profits off of it.
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Old 9th February 2012, 16:35   #142
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Default Re: Swift VXi CNG Conversion

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
I get around 20-22 miles per kg on CNG. But note that you will be spending 500-1000 on petrol other than the CNG consumption.

I was also offered Greco by Greenglobe - but I chose BRC because I hadn't heard about Greco - but Greenglobe does a lot of Greco, so I assume that's also a good kit.

Mine was around 4 years old & had done around 53000 kms, I think. With 60 kms a day, your breakeven on the cost should be around a year or less, I think.
Thanks for the replies. 20-22 is really a good thing on CNG. This would be cheaper than my Accent CRDi which I plan to sell off. How many Kms do you run on petrol everyday?

Currently Greenglobe is saying they only have GREECO and they dont have BRC. How was the service and fitment at GreenGlobe are they professional and experts. I am also tending towards Greenglobe as they appeared to be more professional to me.

I plan to get a new Dzire for family and use this car for daily commute to office for next three year i.e. at least till 1L kms. 70k more to go so it seems should be worth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptaneja View Post
Hey Abhishek !

My Swift ZXi is 1st Sep 2006 model - driven for around 1.10Lakh kms - out of which 85k kms are on CNG alone - so I can safely bet that you'll not regret the conversion.

1. I get approx 200 - 225kms per 300rs worth of CNG filled. Maintenance cost doesn't increase, its just that instead of getting it serviced every 10k kms, you'll have to get it done every 8k kms or so. Throttle cleaning, injector cleaning, spark plug change etc would be the normal expense.

2. On my two cars I have BRC and Tomasetto - both running absolutely fine. More than the brand, it's the workmanship that counts - the installer has to be an experienced fellow.

3. Don't know about either - from Delhi!

4. I have multiple times disconnected battery and reconnected it - have not faced an issue with CNG which requires a visit to dealer. Maybe I am getting the question wrong ?

5. Well it depends on whether you want to keep the car for another couple of years - because your 32k kit will pay itself up in one year - then you would definitely need another year to reap some profits off of it.
85k on CNG is really a long rally to give feedback. I can surely be benefited from your experience. Thanks for your replies. Service anyways I get done on every 6-7 k interval as the run of the vehicle is not much till now. It seems from your experience that nothing goes wrong drastically till 1 Lac mark. I definitely will go around 70 - 75 k more on this vehicle.

On the reset thing what the fitters were telling me that this is an closed loop system and the Lambda needs reconfiguration if the battery is disconnected. Do you require any calibration or reconfiguration once battery is disconnected?

Is this case with you as well Carboy? What happens when the battery is disconnected in your kit.
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Old 9th February 2012, 18:34   #143
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Default Re: Swift VXi CNG Conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by caabhishek View Post
Thanks for the replies. 20-22 is really a good thing on CNG. This would be cheaper than my Accent CRDi which I plan to sell off. How many Kms do you run on petrol everyday?
3-4 kms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caabhishek View Post
Currently Greenglobe is saying they only have GREECO and they dont have BRC. How was the service and fitment at GreenGlobe are they professional and experts. I am also tending towards Greenglobe as they appeared to be more professional to me.
I had a couple of small problems which were quickly rectified. After I took the car home, in the next couple of days I noticed a slight gas smell in the car - I took the car back, they did leak testing & immediately fixed it. Also I noticed that my battery was exchanged. Apparently, another car which was being serviced got my battery and I got his. Had to co-ordinate with them to get the other guy to the shop at the same time I was there & got it exchanged back - the other guy hadn't even noticed that his battery was exchanged.

My car was Pune registered, so the RTO work took around 45 days or so (I didn't have to go to Pune) - however, in the meantime the guy at the Mulund LBS marg CNG station used to give me gas even without the CNG plates (rarely charged me the Rs. 10 extra).

Otherwise, no other issues with the fitment till now.
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caabhishek View Post
I plan to get a new Dzire for family and use this car for daily commute to office for next three year i.e. at least till 1L kms. 70k more to go so it seems should be worth.
Won't your warranty be void on the new car if you fit CNG? I did it after my car was around 4 years old.
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caabhishek View Post
Is this case with you as well Carboy? What happens when the battery is disconnected in your kit.
Today, I got my car serviced at Carnation where the battery was probably disconnected (my radio station tuning was gone & my clock was reset). But when I started my car and changed it to gas mode after a couple of kms, it ran fine on CNG(I have driven around 10-15 kms till now). However, I am going to Greenglobe early next week to get it tuned.

Another thing is that the Greenglobe guys asked me to use NGK spark plugs (at the time of the fitment they told me that next I change sparks, I should go for NGK) - so I didn't get the spark plugs changed during the service at Carnation - I will do this at Greenglobe next week when I go for the tuning.
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Old 10th February 2012, 18:45   #144
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Default Re: Swift VXi CNG Conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post

I had a couple of small problems which were quickly rectified. After I took the car home, in the next couple of days I noticed a slight gas smell in the car - I took the car back, they did leak testing & immediately fixed it. Also I noticed that my battery was exchanged. Apparently, another car which was being serviced got my battery and I got his. Had to co-ordinate with them to get the other guy to the shop at the same time I was there & got it exchanged back - the other guy hadn't even noticed that his battery was exchanged.
Lucky that you got your battery back, otherwise your effective cost of conversion would have gone up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
My car was Pune registered, so the RTO work took around 45 days or so (I didn't have to go to Pune) - however, in the meantime the guy at the Mulund LBS marg CNG station used to give me gas even without the CNG plates (rarely charged me the Rs. 10 extra).

Otherwise, no other issues with the fitment till now.
My Swift is also Amravati (MH 27) registered. So I need to get the address changed to Thane RTO and then get the CNG Endorsed. CNG is not available in Amravati and hence RTO there doesnít endorse CNG.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Won't your warranty be void on the new car if you fit CNG? I did it after my car was around 4 years old.
I am planning to convert my Swift into CNG which is Sep 06 Model. New Dzire would run on petrol would be used by my family.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Today, I got my car serviced at Carnation where the battery was probably disconnected (my radio station tuning was gone & my clock was reset). But when I started my car and changed it to gas mode after a couple of kms, it ran fine on CNG(I have driven around 10-15 kms till now). However, I am going to Greenglobe early next week to get it tuned.
This I am not sure of. Greenglobe guys said you need to reconfigure and w/o that CNG kit would not start. Dashmesh guy said this can be tuned at 1000 rpm automatically. Didnít get exactly what he was trying to say.
Also at Greenglobe they say a periodic service and tune up of the kit Costing Rs 350 each time needs to be done at every 5000 kms but Dashmesh said this is required only in case of problems. What do you do for your car? Service he said would include the cleaning of Air filter, Spark Plugs and other tuning and oversight. I think Greenglobe makes sense, as if you maintain no problems would be there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Another thing is that the Greenglobe guys asked me to use NGK spark plugs (at the time of the fitment they told me that next I change sparks, I should go for NGK) - so I didn't get the spark plugs changed during the service at Carnation - I will do this at Greenglobe next week when I go for the tuning.
As per the other posts and what they have told me these needs to be changed at the time of conversion only. Mine is only 28000 kms run still they are asking to change. Probably this required for proper functioning and I thing should not be a big thing.
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Old 10th February 2012, 22:03   #145
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Default Re: Swift VXi CNG Conversion

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Originally Posted by caabhishek View Post
This I am not sure of. Greenglobe guys said you need to reconfigure and w/o that CNG kit would not start. Dashmesh guy said this can be tuned at 1000 rpm automatically. Didnít get exactly what he was trying to say.
Also at Greenglobe they say a periodic service and tune up of the kit Costing Rs 350 each time needs to be done at every 5000 kms but Dashmesh said this is required only in case of problems. What do you do for your car? Service he said would include the cleaning of Air filter, Spark Plugs and other tuning and oversight. I think Greenglobe makes sense, as if you maintain no problems would be there.
I was told a lot of things before conversion, but Ashish told me afterwards is that the only time I need to come there is if
- there is any problem
- or when I get my car serviced at a regular service station, I need to pay a visit to greenglobe after that to retune the car & do some basic stuff. He said this is free for the first year & after that it will cost 150-200 Rs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caabhishek View Post

As per the other posts and what they have told me these needs to be changed at the time of conversion only. Mine is only 28000 kms run still they are asking to change. Probably this required for proper functioning and I thing should not be a big thing.
My car was around 53000 kms at the time of the conversion. In Swift, the sparks are changed every 20000 kms, so mine was last changed at 40000. I was told originally that my sparks would be changed at the time of the conversion & I would have to pay for that separately - however, they didn't change it at that time - they said my sparks were in good condition. But he said at the time of next major service (60000), I should change to NGK which I will be doing next week.
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Old 11th February 2012, 17:31   #146
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Default Re: Swift VXi CNG Conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by caabhishek View Post

Currently Greenglobe is saying they only have GREECO and they dont have BRC. How was the service and fitment at GreenGlobe are they professional and experts. I am also tending towards Greenglobe as they appeared to be more professional to me.
Iam also a customer of Greenglobe. 4 months back i got a BRC kit fitting in my Santro, then too they were promoting Greeco. Didn't choose it as don't know any users of that brand.
Later come to know its Greenglobes own brand, and they say its imported from Argentina. If you go in their office, check above the cashier, there's a Government certificate saying " Greenglobe (Greeco) gas conversion system" dated May 2011. So its definitely approved by RTO.

guess that's why they stopped selling BRC kits now.

As for installation, they are professionals.
I haven't faced any trouble with the BRC kit. driven 4k km on Cng, 45k on the Odo.

UM
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Old 11th February 2012, 19:42   #147
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Default Re: Swift VXi CNG Conversion

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Originally Posted by UniqueMods View Post
Iam also a customer of Greenglobe. 4 months back i got a BRC kit fitting in my Santro, then too they were promoting Greeco. Didn't choose it as don't know any users of that brand.
Later come to know its Greenglobes own brand, and they say its imported from Argentina. If you go in their office, check above the cashier, there's a Government certificate saying " Greenglobe (Greeco) gas conversion system" dated May 2011. So its definitely approved by RTO.
Yes - it seems to be their own brand - Greenglobe Fuel Solutions is leading CNG Cylinder testing & certification station approved by Petroleum and Explosive Safety Organization (PESO), Government of India.
Anyway, even for BRC, I think they and (every other installer) use only the heart of the BRC system - every other part is locally made.


Quote:
Originally Posted by caabhishek View Post
My Swift is also Amravati (MH 27) registered. So I need to get the address changed to Thane RTO and then get the CNG Endorsed. CNG is not available in Amravati and hence RTO there doesn’t endorse CNG.
How much does it cost to get the registration changed to the Thane RTO. I was told it would cost 5% or something of the depreciated value of the car.

Last edited by carboy : 11th February 2012 at 19:45.
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Old 11th February 2012, 22:39   #148
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Default Re: Swift VXi CNG Conversion

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Originally Posted by UniqueMods View Post
Later come to know its Greenglobes own brand, and they say its imported from Argentina. If you go in their office, check above the cashier, there's a Government certificate saying " Greenglobe (Greeco) gas conversion system" dated May 2011. So its definitely approved by RTO.
guess that's why they stopped selling BRC kits now.
Thanks for sharing this fact about GRECO. If this is the case how can they call it as imported while selling? This is an unfair practice. Tried to google a lot for Greco brand and comparison with Tomasetto but was not able to find anything that Greco is an international brand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UniqueMods View Post
As for installation, they are professionals.
I haven't faced any trouble with the BRC kit. driven 4k km on Cng, 45k on the Odo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Yes - it seems to be their own brand - Greenglobe Fuel Solutions is leading CNG Cylinder testing & certification station approved by Petroleum and Explosive Safety Organization (PESO), Government of India.
Anyway, even for BRC, I think they and (every other installer) use only the heart of the BRC system - every other part is locally made.
This even I have heard that they are professionals as far as the installation goes. But the kit parts also need to be of that standard. Have checked the link provided by Carboy it shows various parts like Pressure Regulator, Lambda, TAP etc which are the heart of the system are of Greco brand and these are the parts which need to be imported in any kit. Is Green globe manufacturing these parts in India or procuring from outside and selling under their Brand Name? Rest of the parts like Cylinder, Pipelines etc are anyways Indian with any fitter.
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How much does it cost to get the registration changed to the Thane RTO. I was told it would cost 5% or something of the depreciated value of the car.
The same thing is told to me by some of the brokers at Thane RTO. 5% is Octroi and is charged on depreciated value. This value can be anything and for an old vehicle this can be 50k as well. As far as I know agents manage this as well and get this done for 5k.
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Old 12th February 2012, 14:07   #149
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Originally Posted by caabhishek View Post
The same thing is told to me by some of the brokers at Thane RTO. 5% is Octroi and is charged on depreciated value. This value can be anything and for an old vehicle this can be 50k as well. As far as I know agents manage this as well and get this done for 5k.
I was charged 1500rs for Gurgaon/Haryana Number (this includes the broker commission if any .. ).
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Old 12th February 2012, 16:03   #150
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Originally Posted by ptaneja View Post
I was charged 1500rs for Gurgaon/Haryana Number (this includes the broker commission if any .. ).
You don't have Octroi in Gurgaon/Haryana. We have it here in good old Maharashtra. One place other than Egypt which has Octroi.
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