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Old 5th March 2012, 16:55   #166
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Default Re: Swift VXi CNG Conversion

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Originally Posted by ptaneja View Post
All newer cars have more sensors in place, are more sensitive and will have this glowing light - you can try clearing the ECU memory once and see if it comes back up. On my swift it was never glowing till about 6 months back - I even replaced O2 sensor to get rid of the light. Finally it was because of a faulty CNG Advancer - replacing it fixed it.
Today this car was taken to HASS and they inspected the car's engine on their instruments and did a scan. As per them this car has too many sensors in place and all the settings are for Petrol. For installing Lambda some of the wires (connected to these sensors as well) are cut and attached with the Lambda. Now the Lambda is giving the settings for CNG but the sensor settings are for Petrol and hence the issue. If this was a open loop system all this issues would not have been there.

They have checked it on their apparatus and there is no issue with the engine and their sensor is not showing any error. Its just that the fuel is changed and the settings are for Petrol and hence the error.

They have tried resetting the ECU Memory, for some time this indicator went off but again after sometime it came up. HASS is saying that the car is perfectly fine and there are no issues with the engine. This indicator is of no use anymore.

Anyways the car is running fine and smooth with no drop in performance at all. Now it has done more than 600 kms on CNG and giving an amazing mileage of 25km/kg with AC on. I think if engine had a problem this mileage and performance could not have be attained.
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Old 5th March 2012, 18:33   #167
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Default Re: Swift VXi CNG Conversion

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Today this car was taken to HASS and they inspected the car's engine on their instruments and did a scan. As per them this car has too many sensors in place and all the settings are for Petrol. For installing Lambda some of the wires (connected to these sensors as well) are cut and attached with the Lambda. Now the Lambda is giving the settings for CNG but the sensor settings are for Petrol and hence the issue. If this was a open loop system all this issues would not have been there.

They have checked it on their apparatus and there is no issue with the engine and their sensor is not showing any error. Its just that the fuel is changed and the settings are for Petrol and hence the error.

They have tried resetting the ECU Memory, for some time this indicator went off but again after sometime it came up. HASS is saying that the car is perfectly fine and there are no issues with the engine. This indicator is of no use anymore.

Anyways the car is running fine and smooth with no drop in performance at all. Now it has done more than 600 kms on CNG and giving an amazing mileage of 25km/kg with AC on. I think if engine had a problem this mileage and performance could not have be attained.

In that case, fill it, forget it, and enjoy your monthly savings
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Old 7th March 2012, 01:23   #168
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Default Re: Advice on CNG Conversion

Hey Lalit i am also planning to get Sequential kit.Please share the contact no. of the place from where you got yours done.
It would be great if you can share your contact no. as i stay near to your place
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Old 8th March 2012, 09:40   #169
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Hey Lalit i am also planning to get Sequential kit.Please share the contact no. of the place from where you got yours done.
It would be great if you can share your contact no. as i stay near to your place
Hi Himanshu,

I am living in Sahibabad-Ghaziabad.And you can PM me your mail id so that I can send you all the details of my CNG fitter ( who almost fit CNG kit in 20 to 25 cars per day ) and other relevant details.

Also just for your information, I have already driven around 1800 Km since 26th Jan 2012 on this CNG kit and getting around 22 to 24 Km/kg though I never ever faced the condition of empty tank and rushing to the gas station. I have also covered around 222 km one time and that too in city driving conditions .Hence I will say that it was a wise decision to go green and feel responsible towards environment as well as increasing monthly expenses on transportation.

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Lalit
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Old 8th March 2012, 12:28   #170
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Originally Posted by himanshusharma View Post
Hey Lalit i am also planning to get Sequential kit.Please share the contact no. of the place from where you got yours done.
It would be great if you can share your contact no. as i stay near to your place

Hi Himanshu,

I don't know whether sharing the contact number in thread is acceptable in this forum or not. Well my contact number is 9810343666 for your reference.

Regards,
Lalit
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Old 10th March 2012, 11:23   #171
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Default Re: Advice on CNG Conversion

Hi,

I recently got my i20 asta CNGed... everything is running fine except the fact that the car sometimes stalls at low RPM, maybe because of the cold. But I was wondering would installing K&N Filters in my car improve the performance by negating some of the CNG effect?
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Old 11th March 2012, 15:42   #172
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Hi Team,

Today I got hold on the user manual of the Tomasetto Achille CNG Kit.I read in the advantages section of the manual that " The CNG is not washing the walls of the cylinders, assuring a better lubrication, that is directly related and increasing the life of Engine".

But, I have read it on our website that CNG makes cylinder dry during the combustion.Can someone throw light on this ? Because this is the most important aspect of the running life of automobile.

Also I will try to upload the PDF of the manual shortly.

Regards,
Lalit
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Old 12th March 2012, 12:27   #173
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Default Re: Advice on CNG Conversion

Just want to appraise, how CNG distributors/ retrofitters are cheating to the customer.
I have my baby Zen 2002 MPFI and wanted to install CNG kit as my running has now increased to around 65 km per day.

As a silent follower of Team-bhp, I read couple of post regarding the CNG fitting. Whatever I could gather is as follows

1) Three kinds of CNG kit : open Loop, Closed Loop and Sequential Loop
2) Generally all Italian or Argentina kits are good.
3) All important is the fitment and quality installation

I did research on who are the good fitters in Mumbai/Navi Mumbai as I am residing in Navi Mumbai.

Called up many of the CNG fitters, got their offers and in turn understood little about CNG kits.
Since my baby will is of old engine, sequential is ruled out.

Following are the offers

1) Green Globe – Mulund
a. Open Loop (Greco, Argentina) – 32.5K with RTO
b. Closed Loop (Greco, Argentina) – 35K with RTO
2) Dashmesh CNG Impex – Vashi
a. Open Loop (Bugatti or Tomasetto, Argentina) – 29K with RTO
b. Closed Loop (Buggatti or Tomasetto, Argentina) – 35K with RTO
3) Eco Green – Kharghar
a. Closed Loop – (Lendi Renzo, Italy) – 32K with RTO
4) Chemotech Fabcon – Andheri
a. Open/Closed Loop – 27K with RTO
5) Other Road Side CNG Fitter (from Quickr) – Mulund
a. Open/Closed Loop – 27K with RTO

Out of all these, I read good reviews about Green Globe. They are doing company fitting of CNG kit some good brands apart from many taxies and newly launched TAB cab radio taxies in Mumbai. When I called them, they suggested me that I should bring the car for inspection and then they would suggest whether open loop or closed loop will be good as car is 2002 model.

However I did not visited them coz

1) They are costlier than others
2) They are using Greco kit from Argentina. When I did some research on Greco, I did not find their website. I got an undercurrent that the kit is developed by Green Globe itself hence the name is Greco.
3) They have huge orders of fleet taxies so the priority will not be there for walk-in customer like me
4) They told me the difference between open loop and closed loop as 3K. I did have some doubt that they may be using the china or local made Lambda Control System.

Then I visited Dashmesh Auto in Vashi. The person Mr. Sonu has explained about Bugatti. They said they are the sole distributors of Bugatti CNG kit of Argentina in India. He clarified without me asking that the CNG kit has nothing to do with Bugatti Car Brand. However the person who has invented it was earlier working with Tomasetto brand and then he moved out and started its own brand and are in discussion with Bugatti Car Mfgr for the use of their Brand in CNG kit.
When I told him that the price he quoted for Closed loop is very high compared to what is available in market. He then showed me the original Lamda control system of Tomasetto and explained me followings

1) Many of the CNG fitters use several china made or local made parts taking the benefit of ignorance of the customers. Lamda control system he showed of Tomasetto costs around 5K and there is no compromise on quality. He can use the local made system and charge 3K but he doesn’t do that.
2) He then showed me Vaporiser and told that wherever I do fitting, I should check what make or quality of vaporiser they use. There are many varieties and CNG fitter can take advantage of it
3) He then showed Mixer and said its’ their own design and of huge success. Many people ask their design but they don’t give them.
4) He showed me the ongoing fitting in one of the car. He mentioned that many people use china made high pressure gas pipe and showed me that they use original.

After negotiation he finally offered 28K for open loop and 33k for closed loop.
Now after having got some idea about CNG kit, I started to enquire different CNG fitters in Mumbai. I got a list from Mahanagar Gas website. I contacted Tiwari Motors, they also offered Bugatti kit but for 32K. I then called up Mr. Sonu of Dashmesh and told him that if they are the sole distributors then how can other person offers the kit at low price then them. He explained that yes Tiwari Motor is their vendor and the difference of 1K is due to small vaporizer they use.
I then called up Mr. Abhijit, of Chemotech Fabcon – Andheri. He said they are the sole distributors of Longas Itallia CNG kit. When I asked what’s the cost of Open Loop he said 27K with RTO. I then asked what for Closed Loop. He said no difference in Cost and they generally do closed loop only and the rate quoted is for Closed Loop. I asked whether they use any local or china made components, he said they use all original and told that they are doing the fitment for Sai Services (Big dealer of Maruti in Mumbai).

I thought since they use original Italy kit and a choice of Sai Service and the cost is 6K less than other closed loop kits, let’s visit them. I then went to his workshop/office in Andheri. Mr. Abhijit is typical business man. When I asked him about the Kit details, he said “Don’t worry saab sab kar ke dunga”. I then asked what components they use in the kit? Lamda Sensor make? whether any local made component is used? Coz many people use them. He said “Hamare yah ape khali cylinder and stand local made rahega baki sab imported.” Then I asked whether they put power booster, safety valve, etc. He again said “Saab tension mat lo aap mera kam dekho sab kar ke dunga. Mere yaha jitna cylinder ka stock hai kahi nahi hoga, coz sab taxi wale, Tab fleet taxies yah ape ate hai fit karne”. I asked him whether I can use Credit card to pay. He said “Only Cash” he will accept. I felt kuchh garbad hai…but ignored my inner voice and thought all CNG fitter will ask only cash, so no problem. The deal was for 27K Closed Loop.

I trusted his words and decided to install CNG kit there. I took my car the next day to his workshop. I asked him to show me the kit. He then instructed his boy “Zen ka kit bana de”…!! I doubted what he meant by “Zen ka kit bana de”…why not “Zen ka kit dikha de..”? Then his boy started putting different parts from different bags like timing advance, emulator, HP pipes, mixer, etc. I asked him why he is assembling all parts from different bags…Mr. Abhijit said they order diff parts from Italy and assemble here…! It really looked fishy..as I see most of the component look local made…Again I ignored my inner voice and just checked the Main component is of Longas or not. It was longas so thought its fine. Then I asked him to explain me the kit and its functioning. He said “batata hu” but never he did. His boys started doing fitting. So I went to inspect that. I asked the person where is the lambda control system, he showed ignorance as if he is not aware what is Lambda control system. I again asked him which installation he is doing? Open Loop or Closed Loop? He said Open Loop..!!

I was shocked. I immediately told Abhijit whether they are installing closed loop or open loop as his boy is telling he is installing open loop in my car. He then fired his boy telling him whether he knows what is closed loop or open loop? He then told me “Saab voh last me lagta hai”. I said ok but he must watch the installation ans be sure to install lamda control system. He said “Chinta nai karo aab sab ho jayega”. Meanwhile I was observing that he is assembling many kits even sequential kits and sending to some of his own places for fitment. I show 2-3 taxi walas were coming to show the problem. Again I ignored the inner voice and thought as far as they put lambda control system and closed loop I should not bother if some parts they use local..!
I left their work shop for my office and told him that I will come in the evening to collect the car and repeatedly told him that they must ensure to put Lambda control system. He said ok.
When I called before leaving the office to check whether the car is ready or not..! Mr. Abhijit said “Saab car to kab ka ready hai aap ka”..I asked him whether they have put Lamda control system or not? He said “Sab laga diya hai”.

When I reached the place, the car was ready Mr. Abhijit was not there but his boys were there. I asked him to open the bonnet and show me the kit. And I was shocked to see……they did not put lamda control system and only did open loop installations. The finish of the fitting was very bad. Mixer was very ordinary and pipes also was of not great quality. I asked them where is the closed loop…!!!! Where is the Lamda Control System??? They were seeing each other’s face…! One person said “Saab yeh to raha” pointing to “Emulator” and “Timing Advancer”. I asked him these are not the control system. They said they know only this and call this only as closed loop…!! I showed them on my mobile google what s the lamda control system that uses the oxygen sensor and control the flow of gas to increase the efficiency. I was fuming….at thei ignorance or making fool of me..!! I called Abhijit and shouted that where is the control system??? He said he will talk to his boys…! Meanwhile one of the boy started searching something in my car and showed me one wire and told “Saab aapka yeh oxygen sensor kharab hai pehle usko thik kara ke lao fir maid dal deta hu lamda control system..!” I lost my temper…I said you are making fool of me….how can they say oxygen sensor is not working without doing scan??? And how now they suddenly know about lamda control system…!

They now behaving rudly…and forcing me to replace my oxygen sensor first or else they will not install closed loop. I asked since they did only open loop that too with many local components…I will give only 22K as Lamda control system costs itself around 5K. Meanwhile I tried to call Abhijit, he was not answering my call. But he was talking to his man when he calls. His man asked me “5000 thodi hota hai lamda control ka? Kisne bataya tumko? Meri bat karao use”. I immediately called Mr. Sonu of Dashmesh Auto and put on the speaker phone and asked him the price of only “Original lamda control system”. He said its 5K..! Here Abhijit’s man immediately asked that he is calling from Longas and asked what make of lamda is of 5K. Mr. Sonu said, Tomasetto’s original lamda control system cost 5K. On hearing, this man did not say anything and told me that they are not ok in deducting 5K and threaten me of removing the kit. I ask him that I am sure they are not going to use original lamda control so what is the max discount they can offer in 27K which was agreed for closed loop and they installed only open loop. He asked Abhijit on phone and told Max. 1K. I immediately told them to remove the bakwas kit from my car. They removed the kit within 10 minutes…

I took my car back and drove back to home. Soon after Mr. Sonu called and asked what happened. I said I went for enquiring to Chemtrol Fabcon (Longas Distributor) for CNG kit so was enquiring about Lamda (I did not say that they tried to make me fool…as I planned now to put CNG from him i.e Dashmesh). He then said, Longas is a good kit but I must focus on other components like vaporizer, emulator, fishining, HP pipe, lamda etc. I told him that I saw many local parts in the kits. He said whatever price Abhijit has offered, he can do in 1K less than that by also using the local components like Abhijit kind of people does.

So Mr. Abhijit, Chemtrol Fabcon Pvt Ltd. Andheri who is a Longas distributor is the CHEATER and FRAUD. They tried to sell Open loop (that too with many local components) at the promise of Closed Loop…Guys I wrote this incident in detail so that People must be aware about this kind of Frauds and cheating…..

I then visited Mr. Sonu, Dashmesh Auto in Vashi the next day. He assured me of quality and original fitments only. He suggested that he will do scanning of oxygen sensor and if it is not working than it is better to used open loop only. I said fine. Now I am going to him tomorrow for installation. Lets’ hope he also does not try to cheat me….

Last edited by AGP : 12th March 2012 at 12:31. Reason: Formating
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Old 12th March 2012, 16:26   #174
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Originally Posted by AGP View Post
Just want to appraise, how CNG distributors/ retrofitters are cheating to the customer........-
-
Now I am going to him tomorrow for installation. Lets’ hope he also does not try to cheat me….
Hi AGP,

I felt very sorry that you went through such incidence.Well better late then never.It was your sheer dedication and hawk eye which saved you from a fraud and also saved you from any future mishap.

I invested almost 2 years looking at various CNG installers and their deal rates, searched several websites, Googled a lot.And in the end I finally came to the conclusion that there is no such thing like peace of mind.And it comes at a price.I drove Esteem for close to 5 years but on petrol just because I was not confident enough regarding the CNG installers.

I live in Ghaziabad and regularly saw one CNG fitter who is on the way to my office.He almost installs 20 to 30 kit daily and also caters to the customer questions.Some give preference to kit of branded names and some prefer lesser cost kits.

He has both.I visited him to inquire for the Kit price close to 10 to 15 times.He was generous enough in telling the price everytime patiently and answer to my queries.

And finally in my New Wagon R after covering exactly 10000 Km, I straight went to this installer and that too on Sunday.He told me that it will take around 4 hours to install and 30 min for leakage check & calibration of ECU of my sequential kit.

And I am satisfied by the installation he did.I invested INR 41000/-.But I have complete peace of mind with respect to the running of my Car and overall performance.

So, I would suggest you to first search the genuine installer near your location and then invest your hard earned money.

Regards,
Lalit
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Old 13th March 2012, 09:28   #175
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Default Re: Advice on CNG Conversion

Thanks Lalit...

Which kit you have installed for 41K? did they perform car scan/oxygen sensor scan before puting closed loop? and are you aware about what is the cost of new oxygen sensor for Maruti Zen MPFI..?
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Old 13th March 2012, 12:11   #176
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Hi AGP,

Its called M-Sequent. Made in Poland and it is sequential kit which involves drilling the holes in the intake manifold for installing the injectors.

Over all the quality is good.The installer gave 1 year warranty on the kit and 6 months warranty on the electronics.Actually he did the calibration for close to 15 min in which the engine response on the petrol is recorded via the laptop and same settings are matched on the CNG mode.So, I think that only made it clear whether the Oxygen sensor is functioning properly or not since there are various sensors based on which the performance graph is made.

And I am sorry but I am not aware of the cost of the oxygen sensor of Zen.Since its already 10 years old car so I would suggest you to get it checked only at the Authorized Maruti service center to get it rectified, since all your doubts will be cleared after that scan and you can go ahead with the CNG installation.

Regards,
Lalit
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Old 13th March 2012, 16:03   #177
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Default Re: Advice on CNG Conversion

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Just want to appraise, how CNG distributors/ retrofitters are cheating to the customer.
.
Sorry to hear about the bad experience you had. But somewhere I feel that you should have investigated more as you were getting 8k difference for a closed loop system as compared to others. Seems from your post that you have done quite a lot of research on the fitters and the kits.

Just to share with you my experience and the research I did. I was planning to convert my Swift Vxi and my cousions i10 to CNG and wanted to have an Advanced closed loop system the settings for which dont change if battery is disconnected. I zeroed doen to three fitters in Mumbai:
1. Eco Fuel Systems Thane - Authorised Lovato distributor for Region
2. Dashmesh CNG Impex Wadala - Authorised Tomasetto and Buggati distributor for Region
3. Greenglobe Mulund - Authorised GREECO

I had discussions with all of them and visited only the first two. Greenglobe I didnt go for the same reason as mentioned by you as what I came to know is GRECO is their own brand and second thing their focus is more on taxis.

When I went to Dashmesh he explained about the differences about the closed and open loop and again what people are doing in the market. He quoted me 35k and that too with an Indian Lambda and not the Tomasetto or Buggatti one. He said everything original would cost around 40k. I didnt find this place customer freindly (My Internal Feeling) as the guy (will not quote the name) was in his own ego of "Dashmesh". Also saw lots of taxis around there so wondered about the quality. Also the place far away from Thane were I live. Also for the plates he said I need to visit the RTO. So I left this place.

Then I went to Eco Fuel Thane and met Rajesh Bhai there. Had heard lot about Lovato and got a feeling that its better than Tomasetto. Mr Rajesh explained me everything about the kit and he had 3 types of kits:
1. Open Loop - Completely Italian - 27k
2. Closed Loop - Completely Italian + MOCC Indian Lambda - 32k
3. Advanced Closed Loop - Completely Italian with Original Lovato Lambda with Step up motor for gas regulation, With 2yrs warranty - 36k (This is the one for better performance)

For all the above kits the cylinders and the stand are Indian. The gas mixer used is also Indian as its Indian Car Specific and cant be imported. The same thing was said by Dashmesh.

There are lots of packed kits at his place in stock and he showed me one which was opened for a current installation which had just begun. Everything was imported and original and he said to select any box and he would fit that in my car. He charge money by telling you upfront and whatever I decide he would fit that. for every installation he would use one box and all the components would be of same set. The box contains the Open loop system which has Pressure Regulator, High Pressure pipes, Vaporisor, Switch, Emulator, TAP, Pressure gauge etc. Lambda is seperate depending on the make you choose. He also undertook all the responsibilty for the RTO work and all the above prices were inclusive of RTO. i10 which my cousion has is Pune registered he agreed for Pune RTO as well

I was satisfied with this and went with this guy and decided for Advanced closed loop with all Lovato Components and Lovato Original Lambda.

Went with the i10 first. As agreed his guy came to my place and picked the car at the agreed time from my home. He said the car would be ready by evening. In the evening he called me that the car is ready. I went next day morning to take the delivery and Rajesh himself was there. He showed & explained to me the installation in detail and gave some tips. The installation was really neat and he showed me all the components as promised and everything was Lovato. The car was really smooth and other experiences are mentioned in this thread in my earlier posts. The car has done more than 1000 Kms now and is running absolutely fine with a mileage of 25km/kg with AC on. No issues whatsoever.

Then I went with the conversion of my Swift as well yesterday and got the car today morning. Again the installation is super neat and all the components as promised. Will upload the pics shortly. Swift is behaving really good on CNG. No drop in performance at all. Earlier in i10 I felt a drop but that was because I was not used to drive i10. He filled up gas for testing only, I think 2 odd kgs. Only reserve indicator was on. I have driven the car for 35 kms and still it didnt run out of gas. I assume this as good efficiency and will update more on this soon as I drive 65 kms everyday.

In conclusion this is really a good fitter and Lovato kit is also great. Will upload the pics of Installation soon.

Regards
Abhi
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Old 13th March 2012, 16:52   #178
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Hi Abhi,

Thanks a lot for sharing your experience.

I visited Dashmesh, Vahi several time. He showed me original Tomasetto Itly Lambda control system and told that not all fitters use original components.

Though I have decided to put CNG kit from him on coming Saturday...I am doing research and recently found an old thread in team bhp.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ts-market.html (Fake CNG Components In Market)

Where it is evident that Most of the Italy or Argentina kit Manufactures are manufacturing only critical components like Reduce...but rest of the components like Emulator, TAP or Lamda Control System are either Local made or illegally using the conpany brand name using the stickers....

It was shocking for me...Now I realised that from whome-so-ever I install CNG kit...there are bound to be many local or fake components in it...

Somewhere I read that only Lovato makes all the components and ready kits. At the same time Dashmesh was telling that Lovato components are made in China....

Some other post, I read that Most of the fake components are made in Haryana and not even China...!

I will definately enquire Eco Drive, Thane...What is the final bargain of your installations.?

Do they use Tecto meter (or something like that..) for scanning after installations?

Regards,

Anil
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Old 13th March 2012, 17:32   #179
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Somewhere I read that only Lovato makes all the components and ready kits. At the same time Dashmesh was telling that Lovato components are made in China....


Do they use Tecto meter (or something like that..) for scanning after installations?
All the things including the Reducer had a mark which says Made in Italy and the quality seems genuine. All the components are coming out of same kit. Moreover they are giving 2 yrs warranty and the cars are behaving perfectly. I think this should be the only thing which should matter. All the brands are more or less same, The thing which matters here is the worksmanship. I enquired about the China thing and Rajesh said there are lots of fakes in the market and they are the sole distributors for Lovato and they would not use fake. If anyone who is not a distributor and installs Lovato is using fake.

Also they use some apparatus for checking post the installation and check for leakage as well. Not sure what those apparatus are.
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Old 13th March 2012, 17:43   #180
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Thanks Abhi,

I googled Eco Fuel System. Got two contacts Eco Fuel in Ghatkopar and one in Thane. Contact persons are Mr. Harshal and Mr. Dhawan...Do they have branch in Ghatkopar also? if you can provide the contact details of Rajesh or Eco Fuel System in Thane, it would help me...
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