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Old 15th February 2013, 11:07   #346
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@Ameya, have ecofuel guys solved you problem and will you recommend them?
=============
To be honest, I felt this second guy was taking me for the ride and eco fuel guy felt very promising and sound professional.

There was a problem with the timing advancer and he replaced it for free. Since then haven't faced similar issues. But i still think Ecofuel lacks the finesse in his job. I feel the car is not in the same shape as i was before giving it to him with a few creaks and rattles creeping in.

For eg, after fitting the cylinder a couple of weeks back, the cylinder started vibrating whenver the car went over some bumps. Post check up, the guy told me the metal in the floor of the boot(where the cylinder bracket and screws are fitted) is torn. When i said, it has not even been 6 months, he said "woh toh sab cars ka patra fat hi jaata hai, aap mee waale mechanic se welding kara lo".

If he knew that the metal gets damaged in 2 months, why not do the welding part before hand? I wont mind paying the incremental cost during fitting itself. Then I had to waste a Sunday and get the welding part done at some other mechanic.

So my assessment is - He is an average Joe when it comes to fitting kits, nothing extraordinary that others cant do. I would suggest check frank mehtas' fitter as he had given a brilliant feedback bout him.
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Old 15th February 2013, 11:51   #347
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For eg, after fitting the cylinder a couple of weeks back, the cylinder started vibrating whenver the car went over some bumps. Post check up, the guy told me the metal in the floor of the boot(where the cylinder bracket and screws are fitted) is torn. When i said, it has not even been 6 months, he said "woh toh sab cars ka patra fat hi jaata hai, aap mee waale mechanic se welding kara lo".

If he knew that the metal gets damaged in 2 months, why not do the welding part before hand? I wont mind paying the incremental cost during fitting itself. Then I had to waste a Sunday and get the welding part done at some other mechanic.
.
I faced the same issue with my Swift Vxi. The floor of the boot cracked. Got the same reply from eco fuel that this happens in most of the maruti cars. My arguement was same as yours that was this not done earlier to which he said people generally not like to get welding done to their cars and dont wanna spend that extra 1200. I didnt really buy this arguement. Spent my sunday morning at a mechanic's place fixing this.

I am facing a strange issue now. Post this job getting done the mileage on CNG has suddenly dropped. Might be an coincidence or is it a small leakage as the guy has removed the pipe connecting the cylinder and had refitted. But there is no smell at all. Earlier my Swift used to do around 220 kms on full tank but not its around 170 only. Also i'm feeling a drop in performance the car, I'm feeling a slight drop in the pickup.

Any reasons why this can be? I hardly suspect leakage. Is this something to be lambda or any other part.
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Old 4th April 2013, 23:15   #348
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Guys, Today, I have fitted open loop levato CNG kit in my 2004 honda city from EcoFuel, thane. Cost 31k. These guys are real pro's. They fitted the kit in my car in less then 1 hour! (actually in about 30-45 minutes), that's amazing. 6 guys started working on my car immediately and it was completed before I return to the spot. Installation look pro and everything so far seems good except check engine light.

I also raised concerns raised by caabhishek about tank stand welding but they said that will not be the problem with my car because those problems appears in old car where metal has corrode. I did not want to believe him, but I thought what maximum could happen, I have to weld it in future! We will see that in future.

After fitting, their mechanic took me to cng station and after filling up CNG they tuned it up. There was some leak which was visible after filling CNG. They checked for leaks with soapy water. If you put soapy water (probably water mixed with surf excel washing powder) on valve's, you can clearly see the bubbles. Just tight the screw and you are done. (good tip for regular self checkups). I drove the car for about 30 kms and performance so far looks amazing. I don't want to speculate but so far I don't feel much lag, may be because I am sedate driver and there is too much traffic in thane roads! The car seems to be cruising fine without any problems on CNG. You will not notice its on cng about 60kmph speed.

I also felt that they should have explained me more about the installation and gave me more instructions about how to self tune car in case of emergency and what precautions to take. These guys did not explained me anything them self and I have to dig out information from them. May be it was because it was their closing time but they surely need to improve on that or may be its just like that in India! Chalta hai kind of attitude. But, so far I will still recommend them.

I am seeing check engine light for some reason. Do anyone know anything about it? I will go check this out with ecofuel tomorrow and update. I will also post all pictures. I also need to get CNG kit passed/stamped on papers.

Loving the conversion so far and unlike other members, I promise to keep this thread alive with more updates. Btw, my car engine is awesome and have not experienced any accidents till today.

Last edited by Max : 4th April 2013 at 23:43.
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Old 5th April 2013, 17:18   #349
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Default Re: Advice on CNG Conversion

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Guys, Today, I have fitted open loop levato CNG kit in my 2004 honda city from EcoFuel, thane. Cost 31k.
Congratulations on fitting the tried & tested Lovato CNG kit. How much has your car run till now? It seems you have made quite a late entry on to the CNG bandwagon (after 9 years running your car on the costliest fuel). Why did you opt for the Open loop instead of the closed or sequential one? Though it is quite early to post you this query, please share with us, how much mileage the car is giving on CNG/kg & petrol (just to get an idea in how many days/kms you would be recovering the investment.
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Old 6th April 2013, 02:35   #350
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Today I visited ecofuel and gave them papers and have a chat with mechanics there. They answered all my queries to my satisfaction and told me check engine light problem is common so ignore it. I also did some research yesterday and it does appear to be common problem, however I am going to visit my regular garage soon for second opinion. In the mean time, If anyone knows about it then please let me know.

Today, I completed 90kms drive and I am very happy with the performance and tune-up. EcoFuel guys have really done the great job.

While cruising, I really don't feel any lag and performance is same like driving on petrol.

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It seems you have made quite a late entry on to the CNG bandwagon (after 9 years running your car on the costliest fuel). Why did you opt for the Open loop instead of the closed or sequential one? Though it is quite early to post you this query, please share with us, how much mileage the car is giving on CNG/kg & petrol (just to get an idea in how many days/kms you would be recovering the investment.
Well, I wanted to buy diesel swift 2 years back but waiting period kept me away. I also don't drive allot (only 7k-8k/year) but cost of per km was totally devastating the fun of driving. After many calculations CNG kit did not made any sense to me, however I installed it just for the heck of it! and I am very happy with the decision considering I am driving here and there for no reason because cost per km is so low and CNG station is very near to my house. I have already planned few trips and mapped CNG stations on route. Also, my car is well maintained and is in very good condition so I wanted to give it a try and keep her for few more years.

All CNG fitters, I visited recommended me going for open loop system and all of them claimed close loop was giving problems after some time. They also told me that sequential is only successful with newer engines and open loop will be best suited for my car and there will not be any performance issues. It seems they was correct with regards to performance so far, lets see.

Yesterday I filled 9.5kgs of CNG and 2 lights out of 5 are still ON after 91kms so I think mileage should definitely be more then 12km/kg with a/c ON (in heavy traffic 10kms -50kms speed) and should go more then 16-20kms on express way. I have taken many photographs, will post them soon.

Also, IMO, Big cars like honda city / honda civic are perfect for CNG where as small cars will definitely face performance issues due to smaller engine (I may be wrong?). I am not sure about how CNG effect life of car engine.

@AutoIndian, I noticed you are from pune, have you visited Vardhaman Petrol Pump (cng) on mumbai pune bypass road (1828'59.16" N 7348'08.63" E) or sai express way service (cng pump) (1837'42.86" N 7344'32.26" E) after end of express way on mumbai pune bypass? If you happen to go around the route then please sneak around and update this thread about how much waiting is there for CNG fill-ups.

Last edited by Max : 6th April 2013 at 02:48.
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Old 6th April 2013, 10:14   #351
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The last two days, all CNG bunks have been getting this MIX gas. This is not a myth. The MIX gas is less dense and higher volume goes in. Average takes a hit, but the car runs the same. I managed 400 rupees of CNG in my Honda Civic yesterday due to the MIX phenomenon. Generally the maximum that goes in is 340 rupees.
The MIX gas is a result of MGL cleaning their tanks and using an additive to empty their tanks.
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Old 6th April 2013, 10:27   #352
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Default Re: Advice on CNG Conversion

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The last two days, all CNG bunks have been getting this MIX gas. This is not a myth. The MIX gas is less dense and higher volume goes in. Average takes a hit, but the car runs the same. I managed 400 rupees of CNG in my Honda Civic yesterday due to the MIX phenomenon. Generally the maximum that goes in is 340 rupees.
The MIX gas is a result of MGL cleaning their tanks and using an additive to empty their tanks.
I filled yesterday at an MGL outlet, but didn't get the Mix gas. I have posted about the Mix gas earlier here - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...ml#post2811722 (Advice on CNG Conversion)
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Old 6th April 2013, 19:34   #353
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Guys, Today I did first refill, I think I am getting about 14km-16km per KG of gas in city with a/c ON, I use to get 11-12kmpl on petrol. Btw, I started car on petrol first time in day and ran it on petrol for about 1-2kms till engine warm light is ON, so I must have used some petrol as well. Very Happy with the conversion so far.

Sometimes, I am also experiencing tiny little squeeze sounds, specially on rough roads, may be they are coming due to weight of gas cylinder?

@frankmehta, How do you know its mixed gas? do they have board or something outside? I think I got pure gas.

Last edited by Max : 6th April 2013 at 19:37.
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Old 8th April 2013, 14:23   #354
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I also raised concerns raised by caabhishek about tank stand welding but they said that will not be the problem with my car because those problems appears in old car where metal has corrode. I did not want to believe him, but I thought what maximum could happen, I have to weld it in future! We will see that in future.

I also felt that they should have explained me more about the installation and gave me more instructions about how to self tune car in case of emergency and what precautions to take. These guys did not explained me anything them self and I have to dig out information from them. May be it was because it was their closing time but they surely need to improve on that or may be its just like that in India! Chalta hai kind of attitude. But, so far I will still recommend them.

I am seeing check engine light for some reason. Do anyone know anything about it? I will go check this out with ecofuel tomorrow and update. I will also post all pictures. I also need to get CNG kit passed/stamped on papers.

Loving the conversion so far and unlike other members, I promise to keep this thread alive with more updates. Btw, my car engine is awesome and have not experienced any accidents till today.

Hi Max,

The floor of the boot will definitely start cracking in about 6 months. It happens because of the not-so-great quality of the cylinder fitment. Each time the car goes thru potholes and bumps on the road, the holes which hold the screws for the fitment keep getting marginally bigger and one fine day the cylinder will start vibrating. Then this fellow will give you Madhu Garage's number.

Also, you mentioned that he didnt give you instructions. One thing you should definitely know is how to turn off the main valve of the cylinder. In my case, the o-ring (place where the gas is fed into the system) went kaput and there was a huge leakage, which wouldnt stop. The only alternative in this case is shutting off the valve on the cylinder. Please ask him to show you how its done, as it can be a life saver.

Check engine light will be you constant companion now.
The Eco-fuel guy will disconnect the battery and it will disappear for a while. But my observation is its an on - off thing, so unless you find the car acting wierd, you can ignore the CE light.

Just my 2 cents. Hope you find it useful.
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Old 10th April 2013, 12:33   #355
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Hi Max,
In my case, the o-ring (place where the gas is fed into the system) went kaput and there was a huge leakage, which wouldnt stop. The only alternative in this case is shutting off the valve on the cylinder. Please ask him to show you how its done, as it can be a life saver.

Check engine light will be you constant companion now.
Hey Ameya, thanks for the advice. He did show me how to turn off the cylinder in the boot the next day. Also, I think his installation is fine but its the weight of cylinder which will cause the problem in future. You are correct welding may help but again it can also come out? don't you think so?

Also, did you emptied cylinder at the time of welding or just went ahead with it with gas inside?

I did trip to pune this sunday and visited 3 CNG pumps. WOW, there was huge line of cars waiting for CNG and waiting time was about 1 hour to 1 hour 30 minutes. I did stand at one pump where it appeared I will get CNG in 30 minutes but it took me 1 hour! CNG is not good or pune people for now till they install more CNG stations.

Surprisingly, I got mileage of 20-22+ km per kg. CNG, I am loving it
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Old 10th April 2013, 12:57   #356
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Hey Ameya, thanks for the advice. He did show me how to turn off the cylinder in the boot the next day. Also, I think his installation is fine but its the weight of cylinder which will cause the problem in future. You are correct welding may help but again it can also come out? don't you think so?

Also, did you emptied cylinder at the time of welding or just went ahead with it with gas inside?

Surprisingly, I got mileage of 20-22+ km per kg. CNG, I am loving it
He didnt take out the cylinder, but did a single point welding because the crack was not that big. He said it should suffice for now. However, if the crack is big then he takes out the whole cylinder, welds 2 strips in the boot floor and then refits the cylinder. One of my colleague has got the entire welding part done and is satisfied with the results.

CNG availability in Pune is pathetic!! I prefer using petrol instead of waiting in the never ending queue.
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Old 10th April 2013, 15:01   #357
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CNG availability in Pune is pathetic!! I prefer using petrol instead of waiting in the never ending queue.
Check out my post for cng availability in pune here
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/route-...ml#post3091049 (CNG filling pumps in Pune)

You are correct waiting for CNG in pune is just not worth it.
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Old 12th April 2013, 18:20   #358
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@frankmehta: Hi, i just had a detailed discussion with Mr. Jain from Suraj Auto gas for fittment of Cng kit foor Honda City(manual transmission, i-vtec, 2009 model). He has indicated similar kind of pricing for sequential kit and 70ltr tank. Also thrown the idea of having 13kg lighter tank.
Now my only concern is: I stay at panvel and have not heard of good cng installer in navi mumbai.
Btw one installer in kharghar had already screwed up my santro to such an extent i had to sell it off.

Need opinion and advice from the experts here, if Suraj sounds a good option considering i stay at panvel.
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Old 13th April 2013, 12:50   #359
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Btw one installer in kharghar had already screwed up my santro to such an extent i had to sell it off.
RHCP, I am very sorry for your santro, please tell us complete story.

Also, Here are installation pics as promised.

CNG Close loop explained. Picture courtesy Mijo Autogas CNG / LPG Kit installers in New Delhi.

Note: Open loop kit do not have lambda sensor.

Advice on CNG Conversion-cngr01large.jpg

Here is open loop kit installation in Honda City i-DSI engine.

Cng Cylinder in Boot

Advice on CNG Conversion-img_3156.jpg

Cng Cylinder Walve in blue color, turn it anti clock wise to turn off gas supply. Do this first in case of accident.

Advice on CNG Conversion-img_3157.jpg
Advice on CNG Conversion-img_3158.jpg

CNG stand installation in boot. You can see my boot is pretty solid, however CNG cylinder is very heavy and can cause damage in long run, i will update in case this happens.

Advice on CNG Conversion-img_3159.jpg


Advice on CNG Conversion-img_3160.jpg

I think this is emulator

Advice on CNG Conversion-img_3161.jpg

I think this velve adjust gas supply going to engine while throttling.

Advice on CNG Conversion-img_3164.jpg

Vaporiser / CNG Reducer / Cng Regulator

Advice on CNG Conversion-img_3165.jpg

Filling valve and pressure gauge

Advice on CNG Conversion-img_3166.jpg

Car Engine

Advice on CNG Conversion-img_3182.jpg
Advice on CNG Conversion-img_3172.jpg
Advice on CNG Conversion-img_3176.jpg
Advice on CNG Conversion-img_3173.jpg

Idle throttle adjustment screw, you can move this clock and anti clock wise to adjust gas flow.

Advice on CNG Conversion-img_3177.jpg

Advice on CNG Conversion-img_3178.jpg


timing advance processor

Advice on CNG Conversion-img_3183.jpg
Advice on CNG Conversion-img_3184.jpg
Advice on CNG Conversion-img_3181.jpg

Last edited by Max : 13th April 2013 at 13:06.
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Old 14th April 2013, 16:46   #360
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[quote=Max;3093612]RHCP, I am very sorry for your santro, please tell us complete story.

Well here how it goes.
I had to commute daily from Navi Mumbai to Worli (approx 90kms to & fro).My Santro used to return an decent FE of 15-16kmpl with AC. But still the petrol prices had started pinching my pocket. So one fine day i decided to get CNG/LPG fitted, so as to cut down my travel expenses.

Through a reference i landed at this dealer in Kharghar to get the job done. He suggested me to opt for LPG rather than CNG.(This was sometime in 2009).
At that time since there were no CNG stations in Navi Mumbai, i opted for LPG.

After LPG installation, all sorts of problems began to crop up one by one.
- The FE dropped to 10-11 even on petrol.
- The sensors (MAP, TPS etc) began to fail.
- The idling was errant.
- The engine used to misfire
- Engine knocking
- White smoke on cold starts.
- Engine overheating
- Sudden power drop while car in motion.(I had to shift to lower gears incase of overtaking or over a bridge).

My car used to visit the workshop every weekend or other to get the issues sorted. Once the installer said he would adjust some tappit settings & add some advancer which would solve the problems.

Dont know whether it was due to these experiments of his or sheer coincidence, the crankshaft had developed a CRACK and had to be replaced.I had to shell 23k ODD at H.A.S.S to get new one installed. After 6-7 months, even the new crankshaft developed a similar kind of crack. Somehow i manged to get it replaced from Hyundai FOC, but they recommended me to uninstall the LPG kit.

Then i uninstalled & sold the LPG kit. But the damage was already done. My car was never the same as it was earlier.

Thats the reason i'm a bit skeptical while going for CNG fitment on my Honda City.
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