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Old 21st October 2011, 13:07   #76
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Default Re: Thar to THOR

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear TORQUED - .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
BD sir,

thank you for your silent comment.

in future i would do the same rather than commenting, it would save me some infraction points and i wont get accused of causing personal attacks.

(im off this thread)
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Old 21st October 2011, 13:56   #77
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Default Re: Thar to THOR

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Originally Posted by TORQUED View Post
Yes, I agree the car is over the top, and its not over the top because it is trying to be simple, its over the top because it was built to be over the top, The buckets are as safe as benches would be (please explain why they are any less safer?)

Being over the top is a trait in the car not a mistake.
Torqued - Peace

Did not see any rollcage in the first set of snaps and really even now can't visualize exactly how it has been fitted as there was no provision for this in the first set of snaps.

Irrespective while I actually agree that buckets are always safer than bench seats for me,(forwarded mounted) the fact that the buckets were mounted sideways and the top of the buckets were exposed to sky with no roll cage and that there did not seem to be any harness to hold the passengers in the bucket seats made them seem less safe compared to front facing bucket seats and even the normal bench seats which would be mounted lower with lesser padding at the base.

Of course things seem a bit different in light of the new snap that you have shared.

Agree that if intended to be over the top it has achieved what it started out to do, but since am not too much a fan of pulp friction or the funda of pimping up the ride as is a craze for many individuals I would not be able to appreciate that aspect as neutrally as one would like.
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Old 21st October 2011, 14:38   #78
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Default Re: Thar to THOR

Disclaimer-This post is not to offend anyone.

I'm neither a vehicle designer nor an artist but this somewhat is not smooth sailing design,to me it looks more like a malunited fracture.Dude,dont take me wrong but you have torpedoed the Thar with the result as Thor(more like Thorpedoed).The first pic looks ok but once you look at others,especially the full frontal shot,its not treat to eyes.Take all the criticism in your stride and think on ways how to improve on this,not all the people posting in this thread are after you or your creation.I'm telling you this coz once i had screwed up my bicycle after watching a show of Gemini circus. But then this is not a bike and it does cost much more than that.It needs rectification.

Last edited by BoneCollector : 21st October 2011 at 14:44.
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Old 21st October 2011, 14:57   #79
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Default Re: Thar to THOR

Okie lets see, keeping the jeep itself aside.

I do not say what was done is perfect in any way or from any angle.

Coming to the point where the customer has been given an option to drive it around naked at the rear, so does an average jeep as everything (bars etc) are removable, but its really your choice how you want to drive it....its an option not compulsory to drive it like that...if you are wise enough not to drive the jeep when there is no support at the back, im sure every customer has brains to think that and not to drive it without the bars or with the seats reclined..its common sense is it not.

Again, can i ask why is it actually wrong to put up a lounge on a 4x4 jeep..??? is there a rule against it? if so, i will take back all my comments.

R32 - just because I am answering all points raised and engaging with everyone trying to give explanations, does not mean i am not interested in the feedback etc..if my answers are irritating you, means you are really not interested in any one else's point of view, also i never said safety is not important, its the most important...all i asked was to look at the car from a design perspective (over the top and quirky styling)...its more like a CONCEPT rather than an actual production model..

@ACM - There are very few people who are into pulp fiction and quirky ideas...so obviously I did not expect any different than what is happening here, but some reactions are outrageous.

I think the pics with the soft top (i do agree that one looks out of place and very odd) did not upload in the first instance as they were more than 1mb each...There is a metal frame structure underneath the soft top that provides support to passengers at the back, they are 1.5inch thick and are hard bolted on the frame like the bucket seats..true, its not very effective if the thing rolls over, but then its not built to be driven in a way that it would roll over..its a city drive, why is that so hard for everyone to digest?...if a customer/ anyone wants to drive a hardcore 4x4 in the city and lounge in it from time to time who are any of us to say it should be done any different??

It was great engaging with all of you..cheers
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Old 21st October 2011, 15:12   #80
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Default Re: Thar to THOR

Torqued.

I'm going to be honest with you here. I don't like your Thar very much. It's alright. it could have been better. It can be improved a great deal. Let me help with a few suggestions: Remove the bucket-seats at the back, and place them correctly (for the driver and passenger). Get yourself a proper roll-over-cage.

The two-tone paint-scheme isn't bad. But the whole thing looks a little disproportionate. I'd suggest you remove those extra wheel-cowls. They're quite unnecessary.

The snorkel is a nice touch IMO.

Anyway, what I'm most impressed with is your sporting nature and the way you've taken all this bashing in your stride. In a place like Team BHP, it's easy to lose your nerve, especially when you're around so many informed and knowledgeable individuals who can be critical and sometimes even a little harsh.

But it's great to see that you've not buckled under the pressure. Keep doing what you love. Don't be perturbed. Accept criticism and aim to improve on this project with the criticism you've received. It'll take you a long way!

All the best mate! :
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Old 21st October 2011, 15:27   #81
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Default Re: Thar to THOR

Keeping aside the aesthetics ( Paint color, the lights ) this is an EXTREMELY UNSAFE AUTOMOBILE . The rear bucket seats could literally kill somebody. Braking at 40-50km/hr even in city driving is a regular / daily affair, 4 Life's at risk.

Moreover with the chopping & extending of the wheel arches / fenders the aero-dynamics would have definitely taken a adverse hit.

This is not a road-worthy Auto-mobile.
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Old 21st October 2011, 15:44   #82
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Default Re: Thar to THOR

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear TORQUED - .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
And this comes from the BAAP of the THAR. This is one criticism that you have to take seriously mate
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Old 21st October 2011, 15:59   #83
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Thumbs down Re: Thar to THOR

Good Points -

1) Paint Finish (at least in pics)
2) Alloyz
3) Hard top for front 2 people

Grey Area -

1) Winch!! - why grey? - STICKING a WARN Sticker Over a RUNVA - 2.5Ton (5000pound) Made In China winch!! And for what? An ATV winch, 2.5Ton capacity on a 2Ton vehicle for what?

It is like Joey (in friends) using the putty paste to show he has a foreskin!!!

Name:  chinese 5K.JPG
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2) Snorkel - The THAR's air filter inlet is no where near that place, or is it?

Not-So-Good Points -

1) Rear 4 seats being the biggest area of concern, but enough has been said!

2) The DIRECT FRONT View makes the vehicle look cowardly!! The arches extend out nearly 10inches on each side, while the Stock THAR looks MEAN - with the 'rubber-beyond-metal' stance!

3) Rear bumper!!

4) Look half baked with all the bling in the front and BLAND with the soft top - needs more effort there!
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Old 21st October 2011, 17:49   #84
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Default Re: Thar to THOR

Torqued,
Perhaps you should have started with - "It's is a lounge on a 4x4 jeep, meant solely for city driving", rather than
Quote:
Originally Posted by TORQUED View Post
... Its just something crazy...
See...they took your word for it. (Just kidding!!)

Maybe the reactions would have been softer then. We often see threads where people share the feeling of conquering the uneven inhospitable terrains, climb over obstacles/boulders, wade in 3 feet of water etc.... what are they doing? They are making their intent clear. What they want from the vehicle.

If your intent is to have a lounge on a 4x4 jeep meant solely for city driving, then kudos for the epiphanic design.(Though a Force Trax with all seats removed to make room for 4 bean bags would have been simpler) Take the comments like 'it looks disproportionate/out of place/weird' in your stride.

Do take the safety concerns seriously!!

PS: I have zilch exp in 4X4s or offroading.
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Old 21st October 2011, 17:49   #85
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Default Re: Thar to THOR

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORQUED View Post
Okie lets see, keeping the jeep itself aside.

I do not say what was done is perfect in any way or from any angle.

Coming to the point where the customer has been given an option to drive it around naked at the rear, so does an average jeep as everything (bars etc) are removable, but its really your choice how you want to drive it....its an option not compulsory to drive it like that...if you are wise enough not to drive the jeep when there is no support at the back, im sure every customer has brains to think that and not to drive it without the bars or with the seats reclined..its common sense is it not.

Again, can i ask why is it actually wrong to put up a lounge on a 4x4 jeep..??? is there a rule against it? if so, i will take back all my comments.

R32 - just because I am answering all points raised and engaging with everyone trying to give explanations, does not mean i am not interested in the feedback etc..if my answers are irritating you, means you are really not interested in any one else's point of view, also i never said safety is not important, its the most important...all i asked was to look at the car from a design perspective (over the top and quirky styling)...its more like a CONCEPT rather than an actual production model..

@ACM - There are very few people who are into pulp fiction and quirky ideas...so obviously I did not expect any different than what is happening here, but some reactions are outrageous.

I think the pics with the soft top (i do agree that one looks out of place and very odd) did not upload in the first instance as they were more than 1mb each...There is a metal frame structure underneath the soft top that provides support to passengers at the back, they are 1.5inch thick and are hard bolted on the frame like the bucket seats..true, its not very effective if the thing rolls over, but then its not built to be driven in a way that it would roll over..its a city drive, why is that so hard for everyone to digest?...if a customer/ anyone wants to drive a hardcore 4x4 in the city and lounge in it from time to time who are any of us to say it should be done any different??

It was great engaging with all of you..cheers
You can play with words as much as you want but that does not make this car SAFE!!

If you wonder why people are calling this "design" / "concept" of yours as unsafe??? Thats because you've taken a tried and tested vehicle and made structural changes to it.. there by rendering it unsafe and / or NOT roadworthy..


I'd hate to write "I/We told you so" if this vehicle has an accident and the owner / passenger / insurance company / victim decides to turn around sue you for this.

Nothing against you buddy.. but you've got to know when a "Left feels like its Right" and take some of these recommendations and actually work on fixing them..

On a lighter note, I'm just glad that this vehicle isn't in Bombay!!

Signing off..
Good Luck and God Bless

Last edited by R32_GTR : 21st October 2011 at 17:55.
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Old 21st October 2011, 18:33   #86
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Default Re: Thar to THOR

First of all folks its a great effort to Mod a ride,lots of dedication,hard work and designing skill-set is required,usually no car styling/modding guy would like to fiddle around with the structural parts of the car.

But..But..,in many cases especially us who are working in this industry and serving the clients,the design/concept proposed are often changed by the clients at the end moment,where we get stuck and have to become/work like his puppet.

Seeing Torque Studio's earlier work(s) on the internet,i can easily feel that his creativity might have hampered by his beloved client,which is very common with anyone who is into this industry.People with alot of moolah wont even care for the questions/concern's asked on this thread.Its like "I want it and you make it scenario".

Its done and might have been delivered and being enjoyed by its original owner

Spare the Soul.

Ramie
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Old 21st October 2011, 20:39   #87
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Default Re: Thar to THOR

Oh My God!! The Lesser said the better. Sorry Torqued, i just don like the Jeep. I dont like the colour, (i dont know how people are commenting on a great paint job without actually seeing it in person) Sorry, i dint want to sound rude so i wont comment on the already commented Jeep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORQUED View Post
Highly amused by all the comments here, loved the bashing and critique..made my day

I would also like to ask people why, is it that everyone here has pre conceived ideas about how a 4x4 should look, everyone is entitled to opinions design is a very personal option, I could lower down my 4x4 just 4" off the ground if i wanted....who is to say its not suppose to be that way?

Here is the synapses of the ride.

1. The point was to make the car more creature friendly, THAR sadly is a horrible attempt by Mahindra, we wanted the car to provide comfort and luxury (yes, jeeps can do that).
I dont see how making, what you have made out of it has bettered the Looks or anything else of the Thar

Quote:
2. There are no OTR issues with bumper or the seats (the car has a beam structure at the back, on which the sooft top rests, and that is what provides safety while the jeep is in motion.
Trust me buddy there are atleast 20 issues your design would have, if it went for an OTR. If you want i can spell the out for you.

Quote:
3. The space at the back is a lounge of sorts (added legroom), it has a table and the rear seats are recline-able (when parked of-course), so if you have the car parked over a hill (or lake or whatever) you can sit and enjoy a little RnR (there is also AC ducting for the rear).
Lounge-ing in a Jeep? Im getting more and more confused with every bit i read

Quote:
4. Bench are damn uncomfortable, so the bucket seats are great in terms of that
So the motto is Unsafe but Comfortable??

Quote:
5. The width increase at the back has in no way messed up the dynamics of the car as some people might think, the job was not done at any random place, its all properly calculated and professionally executed, hence proving an extra 6" precious leg space.
Please, dont get to the design dynamics. If one cant see basic safety measures, i can understand what calculations must have gone in the design dynamics

Quote:
6. The Winch will most definitely never be used, its just an accessorie..none of us "USE" the spoilers that are on our cars.
Then why put it? If its not gonna be an offroad car why argue that its safe for offroading? So i understand its only for looks? What looks??!!

Quote:
7. The car is a "CONCEPT" build from TORQUE STUDIOS, we love what we did, there are a few issues for sure..but you do and you learn
Im sure you loved it, thats why you posted it here. But thats ok, to each, his own, i can respect that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TORQUED View Post
Again, thanks to all you guys for the comments,

@GTO - Well said about the hits and misses...but you for one have a lot of people looking at you, as a mod and as a respected part of this forum, you still need to be careful of what your write and put out there..you are actually encouraging the bashing not criticism (there is a difference)...which I im sorry to say I dont approve of as a part of the forum.
What wrong has he said? If hes a mod means he cant express his opinion?

Quote:
@ Everyone -

1. The car is never going off road, so the seating arrangements dont matter.
Thank God, else its a disaster waiting to happen on the off road track


Quote:
2. If i have front facing seats, i can seat only 2 at the back..thats a total of 4 people, my car right now seats 6 very comfortably, thats more than any other car out there except the ones that are 16L plus. (can anyone support the claim as to why the buckets at the back are any less safer than bench seats??)
I think you need to support why you think they are safe

Quote:
3. As far as saving the design goes, dont really need to change anything on it, it solves the purpose it was designed for, some might not like it but the one who owns/ drives it, loves it. The car is built for the owner not for the public.
What was it designed for bud? Id love to know. Its designed to look as Offroading vehicle but its not going offroad - so its not built for that, its designed as a lounge - but then it needs a lot to be desired...music, comfortable lounge seating, air conditioner and its gotta be non bumpy. How did you manage to get it not to bump around.......??

Quote:
5. Again, I dont mind all the bashing or the criticism, im actually really amused and would not be much of a designer if I cannot take criticism..
Seriously i would think twice to get a project designed from you. Sorry just being a bit brave with the comment only after you said you would like true comments. Sorry again

Quote:
Lastly, Try and understand the design of the car, its a jagged and jarred looking thing..inspired by fiction comics.. its not ment to be sporty and to go off-roady design, its something "appart" of the ordinary and we dare to do it the way our creativity allows without being subjected to per-conceived notions or ideas..I dont believe in categorizing Design and Creativity, both of them have no bounds or limitations.......ever wondered how crossovers were born?
cheers
You are saying this is a cross over?? I have no words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORQUED View Post
Actually you dont get it at all...nor are you ready to listen, so this is the last time I explain it to you.

What safety measures are you speaking about...??? for the 10th time there are bars at the back..look at the pic with the soft top...ever realized that the bars are removable?? and YES, making a 4x4 vehicle into a lounge/ LEDs(DRLS btw) is creative...putting the big fog lamps and using the same mundane stuff or setting on a car is not.

Iv told you this time and again...its not for MOTORSPORTS..
its for Customization...there is a difference, that car was not built for "SPORTS"...it was built to lounge around in.
Please have someone "Lounge" in this and let us know the feedback



Quote:
If you have something to say, support it with knowledge and evidence, I can prove everything I did is safe and works for what it was built for..please support for mocks.

I am always listening and encourage a dialogue.
Boss just by the number of suggestions you should have understood what the sentiment of the majority is. If you will defend your "creation" it will only get murkier.

I would like to sum this as;

Someone built a vehicle-good or bad is not the question
Lets encourage the attempt
He has tried to get out of the ordinary
Probably on the instructions of a client
Thats good enough for me...
......But to try and force anyone to like it????.... Not going to happen!! Everyone's got their own opinion so if you posted it here, enjoy the rematrks and comments, good or bad!!
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Old 21st October 2011, 20:59   #88
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Default Re: Thar to THOR

Well it is commendable that the vehicle nobody seems to have "liked" has run into 6 pages..that should say enough. There are hardly any threads I remember running to 6 pages, where people have NOT liked the content displayed...so TORQUED has managed to get our collective attention.

Kudos to that !!!



Cheers
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Old 21st October 2011, 21:25   #89
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Default Re: Thar to THOR

I have read the whole six pages trying to solve this puzzle.

Torqued , what was the exact requirement of the customer? (if you do not mind )?

Did he just want a wide body kit?

Or rather he gave you the design and asked you to just do it ?

The rear seats concept would have gelled well with a hardtop design like the willys station wagon , it would have looked like a military aircraft inside.

You paint job and shade is awesome, did you use 2k from the base?

Whats spoiling the paint Job on the roof is the shoddy body work( denting/tinkering).
From the front , the top would look awesome with a full hardtop like the willys wagon.

Bonnet side vents is a good idea, is it just a sticker ? cant make out from the photos.

The present rear tub design, looks from the front will be perfect with a full hard top , the only thing that can be reworked is the front bumper design.

May be you can show the customer a photoshop pic with a hard top and a new front bumper .

Get bigger tyres too.

Last edited by Frankenstein : 21st October 2011 at 21:27.
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Old 21st October 2011, 22:38   #90
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Default Re: Thar to THOR

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear TORQUED - .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Dhabhar sir, Did some one make you speechless for the 1st time?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ramie2400 View Post
First of all folks its a great effort to Mod a ride,lots of dedication,hard work and designing skill-set is required,usually no car styling/modding guy would like to fiddle around with the structural parts of the car.

But..But..,in many cases especially us who are working in this industry and serving the clients,the design/concept proposed are often changed by the clients at the end moment,where we get stuck and have to become/work like his puppet.

Seeing Torque Studio's earlier work(s) on the internet,i can easily feel that his creativity might have hampered by his beloved client,which is very common with anyone who is into this industry.People with alot of moolah wont even care for the questions/concern's asked on this thread.Its like "I want it and you make it scenario".

Its done and might have been delivered and being enjoyed by its original owner

Spare the Soul.

Ramie

Very well said Ramie paaji.



Guys,
I read somewhere an engineer may not be a good designer because he thinks within boundaries whereas a designer has to think out of the box.
Check out DC's work. We most of of the time criticize him for destroying a car but look it from the point of view of the designer and you see a whole new way of imagining things.

This Thor is a outcome of that out of the box thinking.

Torqued:
There are a few issues. specially the rear seating arrangement. May be you should atleast construct a permanent roll hoop over the seats, to provide safety for the occupants in case of a rollover.

As for the fenders and bumper, I think you can reduce the width to make it look a bit proportional.

Overall its a nice attempt. Everyone learns from their experience hope this helps you to create some great projects ahead.

Regards,
Shoeb
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