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Old 27th October 2011, 21:09   #121
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Thumbs down Re: Thar to THOR

Clutch hydraulic pipe busted - is a HUGE problem & a design flaw. M&M waking up is good, that means all Thars in the showrooms right now are defective as of now
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Old 2nd November 2011, 10:20   #122
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Originally Posted by Frankenstein View Post
Sir, As Fazal bhai said we were atleast 15 Jeeps in total including 2 thars, One from Rock cruisers club Hyderabad and one from our club. The only vehicle which broke down on an obstacle was your baby the Thar. The clutch hydraulic pipe broke.
Dear Frankenstein - my reply in totality to your query on Thar CRDe clutch pipe is as follows:

1. The clutch pipe layout and all parts are same as Bolero VLX. Part numbers are same. Period. Why? Obviously, the answer is "commonization". Please understand that production considerations outweigh many decisions of product specifications. This does not mean that the clutch pipe as supplied has incorrect design. Not at all. It has correct design. It does duty in all Bolero VLX vehicles which itself is a derivative of Scorpio vehicles which are merrily running by the thousands all over the place in 2WD as well as 4WD configuration.

2. That said, now analyse. You and I are both avid offroaders. We know what will hit underfloor. One look is sufficient, isn't it? The solution is as follows: Please go to an M&M dealer and purchase the lower flexible clutch hose, banjo bolt and 2 brass washers of "Scorpio M2DI" vehicle. Remove the small black hose and fit these parts in its place. The parts will fit perfectly. The thread on the banjo is same as that on the slave cylinder. As the banjo offers a 90 degree bend by configuration, you can route the pipe away from ground level which is not possible in the small black hose as it has a straight inlet and has to enter the slave cylinder from the bottom side only. Use tie clips to judiciously tie the hose so as to provide smooth bends (minimum radius of 100 mm). Please ensure that you have working clearance with the LH torsion bar. As a vehicle packaging engineer, I will want 10 mm here in dynamic condition (full articulation). Bleed the system and you are in business. You will agree that there is no rocket science here, just plain and simple observation of a family of vehicles and putting 2+2 together to permanently lick the issue, which I cannot lick in production, as I have mentioned in point 1 above. I hope you will understand and appreciate.

3. Just for academic information, I ran my Thar MH01V521 with this configuration in last year's AKC/EXAMM. . If you thought I would run with production clutch pipe, think again! Similarly, I also had two fuel tank bottom shields, welded to each other to provide exceptional strength, to the extent that I could make my vehicle sit on the tank and it would not give way (I know the rear axle weight), with the tank drain plug cut off and covered permanently. The production Thar CRDe tank is of Bolero VLX. Drain plug is now eliminated in production. Now you know why MH01V521 was the way it was! There were so many things in MH01V521, I'll tell you, slowly slowly!

MY FRIEND, IT IS ALL SO SIMPLE, SOMEBODY'S GOT TO DO IT!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 2nd November 2011 at 10:23. Reason: add info
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Old 2nd November 2011, 22:16   #123
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Default Re: Thar to THOR

@Behram:

This is useful information.

All I can say is that though you left Mahindra, I am glad you never left team-bhp.. :-)

Now, if only you could also post the secret blue print of the Thar Hard Top design..
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Old 3rd November 2011, 12:55   #124
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@Behram: All I can say is that though you left Mahindra, I am glad you never left team-bhp. Now, if only you could also post the secret blue print of the Thar Hard Top design.
Dear Tini - I will never leave TeamBHP as I get to learn a lot from it, everyday. The complete design of the hard top for the Thar CRDe is in my head. It includes the shape of all skin panels including angles and 3D bends, all inner panels, build and assembly process, all mountings, all reinforcements, complete tail gate design without disturbing the production tailgate configuration, in short, everything. It shall have to remain in my head now, I guess. I had started building a prototype in Nasik. I had progressed to more than 50% within a month. There were 2 designs, including a half top with a rally specification roll cage. It was very exciting work. I don't know its status now. I hope it gets progressed.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 3rd November 2011 at 12:57. Reason: add info
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Old 3rd November 2011, 19:55   #125
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Default Re: Thar to THOR

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Frankenstein - my reply in totality to your query on Thar CRDe clutch pipe is as follows:

1. The clutch pipe layout and all parts are same as Bolero VLX. Part numbers are same. Period. Why? Obviously, the answer is "commonization". Please understand that production considerations outweigh many decisions of product specifications. This does not mean that the clutch pipe as supplied has incorrect design. Not at all. It has correct design. It does duty in all Bolero VLX vehicles which itself is a derivative of Scorpio vehicles which are merrily running by the thousands all over the place in 2WD as well as 4WD configuration.

2. That said, now analyse. You and I are both avid offroaders. We know what will hit underfloor. One look is sufficient, isn't it? The solution is as follows: Please go to an M&M dealer and purchase the lower flexible clutch hose, banjo bolt and 2 brass washers of "Scorpio M2DI" vehicle. Remove the small black hose and fit these parts in its place. The parts will fit perfectly. The thread on the banjo is same as that on the slave cylinder. As the banjo offers a 90 degree bend by configuration, you can route the pipe away from ground level which is not possible in the small black hose as it has a straight inlet and has to enter the slave cylinder from the bottom side only. Use tie clips to judiciously tie the hose so as to provide smooth bends (minimum radius of 100 mm). Please ensure that you have working clearance with the LH torsion bar. As a vehicle packaging engineer, I will want 10 mm here in dynamic condition (full articulation). Bleed the system and you are in business. You will agree that there is no rocket science here, just plain and simple observation of a family of vehicles and putting 2+2 together to permanently lick the issue, which I cannot lick in production, as I have mentioned in point 1 above. I hope you will understand and appreciate.

3. Just for academic information, I ran my Thar MH01V521 with this configuration in last year's AKC/EXAMM. . If you thought I would run with production clutch pipe, think again! Similarly, I also had two fuel tank bottom shields, welded to each other to provide exceptional strength, to the extent that I could make my vehicle sit on the tank and it would not give way (I know the rear axle weight), with the tank drain plug cut off and covered permanently. The production Thar CRDe tank is of Bolero VLX. Drain plug is now eliminated in production. Now you know why MH01V521 was the way it was! There were so many things in MH01V521, I'll tell you, slowly slowly!

MY FRIEND, IT IS ALL SO SIMPLE, SOMEBODY'S GOT TO DO IT!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
Thank you Sir , your suggestion will be incorporated . Leaving the clutch pipe issue, the vehicle performed very very well , better than the Willys and mm550s at AKC/EXAMM.Every obstacle i had a doubt about the performance of the Thar , but it really blew me away . Easy , one shot , even in the hands of a newbie . Lot of Jeepers who are into Jeeps from 10 to 30 years are now going for the Thar as they feel its the final answer they were looking for all these years.

Last edited by Frankenstein : 3rd November 2011 at 19:57.
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Old 4th November 2011, 12:41   #126
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Originally Posted by Frankenstein View Post
Thank you Sir, the vehicle performed very very well, better than the Willys and mm550s at AKC/EXAMM. Every obstacle i had a doubt about the performance of the Thar, but it really blew me away. Easy, one shot, even in the hands of a newbie. Lot of Jeepers who are into Jeeps from 10 to 30 years are now going for the Thar as they feel its the final answer they were looking for all these years.
Dear Frankenstein - you have not only made my day, you have vindicated my stand for everything that we (Thar CRDe core team and I) stood for, when we did the project. The vehicle is selling much more than what was anticipated. The main constraint to increasing the sale now is production capability to crunch out numbers, nothing else. I hope they get on it at least now, because it is easily doable and will cost next to nothing to do. It is an "executive decision" only!

That said, imagine if you were to have the "REAL THAR CRDe" which can be done if somebody is "DEAD SERIOUS", you can now imagine and understand where all it will go once it leaves the road? Just for your academic interest, I had taken my Thar CRDe MH01V521 (the only "REAL" Thar CRDe), to Alibaug for an OTR in August 2010 when we climbed up a hillside through massive boulders, parked at the top and called the others up. People saw the terrain, gave us looks of disbelief, shook their heads, wondered at how the Thar reached where it did, but nobody even tried! Then, we merrily came down. You can dig out the detailed post, it is somewhere in the 4*4 section of this forum.

Sometime in March this year, a "vehicle" went up a hill, parked right on top and then we winched it up a tree trunk, lifted the front up through 45 degrees and took a group photograph! By the way, it went up in 2WD where other vehicles were struggling to go up in 4WD. The "location" of this test remains classified. Only one other TeamBHPian knows because we were both there. Guess who!

I REST MY CASE - QED.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 4th November 2011, 12:56   #127
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"Only one other TeamBHPian knows because we were both there. Guess who!"

the other tbhpian must be surely spikey sir, no doubts !!!
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Old 4th November 2011, 13:33   #128
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Default Re: Thar to THOR

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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post

Sometime in March this year, a "vehicle" went up a hill,

Behram Sir,


.......DEJA VU.

This is how subtle hints about the Thar were first dropped on the forum, followed by a thousand questions, posts, threads.

Regards,

Last edited by fazalaliadil : 4th November 2011 at 13:34.
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Old 5th November 2011, 14:00   #129
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Dear Fazal - Thanks. "DEJA VU" it is. I know that "somebody" is reading and appreciating. . Well, that's life.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 5th November 2011, 14:51   #130
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[QUOTE The vehicle is selling much more than what was anticipated. The main constraint to increasing the sale now is production capability to crunch out numbers, nothing else. I hope they get on it at least now, because it is easily doable and will cost next to nothing to do. It is an "executive decision" only!

Boss,after feeling my THAR ,My friends has have booked 2 more THAR CRDe yesterday, one is Silver & other one is a Rocky beige.
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Old 5th November 2011, 14:54   #131
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Boss,after feeling my THAR ,My friends has have booked 2 more THAR CRDe yesterday, one is Silver & other one is a Rocky beige.
Dear Rajith - I always knew it! HaHaHa! . Thanks anyways!

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 3rd February 2012, 16:49   #132
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Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support : Please do NOT post one-liners that add little or no informational value to the thread. We need your co-operation to maintain the overall quality of this forum.

Please read our rules before proceeding any further.

Last edited by GTO : 3rd February 2012 at 17:30.
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