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Old 13th March 2012, 08:14   #31
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

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This is a good build and obviously you guys know what you are doing. But maybe I can add a few stupid questions of my own:
1. The need?
2. The cost?
Well the need should really be ascertained from the customer who wants to get it done !

At the same time, I wish to point out that most of such conversions come from the "want" category and not the "need" category. If it were purely based on need, I am sure we would not have so many options of vehicles in recent years or vibrant forums like Team-bhp !

This build would cost around Rs.1.75 lakhs.
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Old 13th March 2012, 08:51   #32
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

Nice plumbing work. Is that hybrid turbo? liked the big down pipe. Should put less restriction and spin turbine faster.
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Old 13th March 2012, 11:45   #33
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

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Yes, 25% more air + 25% more fuel will theoretically give you 25% more power.
Aah!! I never thought of this thou.. Engineer V/s Non Engineer brains


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Also, the problem is that boost will not be uniform throughout the rpm or load conditions of the engine, so there has to be a means of dynamically controlling the boost.
So this is where the turbo chargers some into play??


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What the turbocharger does is to run a turbine (very similar to a pinwheel which is driven by the wind) using these hot and fast gases. On the same shaft as the turbine, there is a blower which forces air into the engine.
What I understand here is that the exhaust gases run the turbine, which inturn runs the blower that scoops the fresh air and get it into the engine.. I did not get the point of recycled!! Does that me that the same exhaust gases is blown back into the engine?

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turbocharger or a supercharger.
What are the differences? I thought they were synonymous

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Hope this is useful !
You bet, it actually took me a whole 5 hours to understand every bit you have described here..

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Originally Posted by sapl View Post
At the same time, I wish to point out that most of such conversions come from the "want" category and not the "need" category. If it were purely based on need, I am sure we would not have so many options of vehicles in recent years or vibrant forums like Team-bhp !
I think we might also discuss the needs and wants theory ( A psychology theory invented by Maslow)

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This build would cost around Rs.1.75 lakhs.
Wow!!! this definitely is a quantified need
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Old 13th March 2012, 12:14   #34
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

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So this is where the turbo chargers some into play??

What I understand here is that the exhaust gases run the turbine, which inturn runs the blower that scoops the fresh air and get it into the engine.. I did not get the point of recycled!! Does that me that the same exhaust gases is blown back into the engine?

What are the differences? I thought they were synonymous
The problem with the turbocharger is that it does not give a linear output with speed. This is a characteristic of the turbocharger which needs to be compensated for by external means.

You understood right !

I never mentioned about recycling the gases - I only talked about recycling of energy, not the gases themselves. I referred to air as fresh air and exhaust gases as exhaust gases. energy is wasted as heat as well as the inertia of the mass of gases flowing out of the engine.

Of course, all modern engines do recycle a small part of the exhaust back into the inlet to reduce NOx emissions, but that is not the topic of discussions here. This is called EGR or Exhaust Gas Recirculation.

A supercharger is a device driven from the engine crankshaft to force air into the engine. It is a shaft driven device and does not have a turbine.

However, a turbo charger has a blower which is driven by a turbine which in turn is powered by the exhaust gases from the engine.

Thus the supercharger and the tubocharger are completely different animals ! We could have a long discussion on the advantages and disadvantages of both.

Our next project is a supercharged Swift. You can see how a supercharger powers a car when I put details on the forum.

@Kutlee - Yes this is a hybrid turbo for which we had given the specs to the manufacturer.

Last edited by sapl : 13th March 2012 at 12:37.
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Old 13th March 2012, 14:09   #35
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

Hi sapl,

I have been silently reading about this project. And I have to say, not only is this thread amazingly good with the details, but it's also a great knowledge donor.

Congratulations on the good work!
And may I say, the Turbo blow off video sounds positively evil .

Hope to see, read and experience more.

Cheers and drive safe.
Sam
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Old 13th March 2012, 22:19   #36
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

This is a very informative thread. Am voting 5 stars for it. This answers a lot of questions that am sure people here wanted to ask but never did. Please dont misunderstand my questions above. You are doing a fantastic job and I merely wanted you to write what you did so that the same clears the doubts in some of the readers' minds as to the real motive of this conversion.
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Old 14th March 2012, 02:28   #37
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

Absolutely fantastic build (and thread); thank you very much for sharing and posting in such detail!

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Our next project is a supercharged Swift. You can see how a supercharger powers a car when I put details on the forum.
Please, please, please run a thread like this one on the supercharged Swift!
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Old 14th March 2012, 08:16   #38
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

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Originally Posted by wanderernomad View Post
This is a very informative thread. Am voting 5 stars for it. This answers a lot of questions that am sure people here wanted to ask but never did. Please dont misunderstand my questions above. You are doing a fantastic job and I merely wanted you to write what you did so that the same clears the doubts in some of the readers' minds as to the real motive of this conversion.
Thanks Wanderernomad ! No issues on your questions ! Sometimes we ask the same questions to some customers who ask for outlandish things !

@sam - thanks for the encouraging words !

@anekho - will surely start a thread on the swift supercharger project.

I may be silent for a couple of days, as there is nothing more to report until the dyno tuning is complete - should be probably done by tomorrow.
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Old 14th March 2012, 11:57   #39
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

Hey, which manufacturer is that made turbo to your specs? Probably i can get mine also done there. I have non hybrid and i wish i had hybrid.
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Old 14th March 2012, 15:07   #40
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

Hi sapl, This is a great thread and through the course of discussions you have brought out lot of fundamentals! Thank you very much for that. I have couple of follow up questions,

1. In this whole project the kit(s) that you used, was there anything specific to Gypsy only or they are all more of plug and play ? in the sense that remove and put it say for ex: a Honda city?

2. How much would be an estimated mileage drop due to this?
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Old 14th March 2012, 16:03   #41
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

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Originally Posted by srikrishna717 View Post
Hi sapl, This is a great thread and through the course of discussions you have brought out lot of fundamentals! Thank you very much for that. I have couple of follow up questions,

1. In this whole project the kit(s) that you used, was there anything specific to Gypsy only or they are all more of plug and play ? in the sense that remove and put it say for ex: a Honda city?

2. How much would be an estimated mileage drop due to this?
Technically the millage should increase, Having said that probably kutlee can shed some light on this as he already has ha turbo city for more than 3-4 years i suppose?

@ sapl One more thing, is your turbo setup going to be a high compression setup or you have reduced the compression? I am asking this cause i need to know what king of fuel you are going to use, is it going to be the one off the pump or you need high octane fuel?


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Old 14th March 2012, 19:02   #42
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

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Hey, which manufacturer is that made turbo to your specs? Probably i can get mine also done there. I have non hybrid and i wish i had hybrid.
Getting a customised turbo is not an easy thing ! Unless we are able to show visibility of volumes and also undertake some development costs, no manufacturer will give you a customised turbo.

I really do not see the fixation on a "hybrid" turbo as long as your turbo does its job. A Hybrid turbo basically a mix and match of the various components in the manufacturer's part bin to make a turbo for a particular application.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srikrishna717 View Post
Hi sapl, This is a great thread and through the course of discussions you have brought out lot of fundamentals!

1. In this whole project the kit(s) that you used, was there anything specific to Gypsy only or they are all more of plug and play ? in the sense that remove and put it say for ex: a Honda city?

2. How much would be an estimated mileage drop due to this?
Thanks ! We have not used any kit. The turbo is a custom configured turbo. The metal pipes were fabricated by us. The intercooler, hoses, injector, boost control solenoid are all generic parts. We have custom made the build ourselves.

Mileage is an extremely subjective subject. It depends totally on the driver's foot. If driven with a light foot and the extra power tapped onlyu when necessary, we could manage with no drop in mileage, or even manage a slight improvement. However, a heavy foot driver will end up with terribly poor mileage.

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@ sapl One more thing, is your turbo setup going to be a high compression setup or you have reduced the compression? I am asking this cause i need to know what king of fuel you are going to use, is it going to be the one off the pump or you need high octane fuel?
Pramod
We have at present retained it as a high compression setup. If however we find that detonation is a problem, we will reduce the compression ratio. We have custom made gaskets of different thicknesses for this purpose. Our aim is to use pump fuel. If not, may be 93 octane. Using higher grade fuels regularly will not be worth it.

Some update today - all the electrical wiring has been completed and tested. Tomorrow we hope to get the car the car on the dyno for tuning.
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Old 14th March 2012, 23:35   #43
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

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We have at present retained it as a high compression setup. If however we find that detonation is a problem, we will reduce the compression ratio. We have custom made gaskets of different thicknesses for this purpose. Our aim is to use pump fuel. If not, may be 93 octane. Using higher grade fuels regularly will not be worth it.

Some update today - all the electrical wiring has been completed and tested. Tomorrow we hope to get the car the car on the dyno for tuning.

Thanks for the answer, the gasket is the best way of reducing the compression, any build with 1:9.5 compression or higher on MPFI needs better octane fuel else it will knock, how about retarding the timing? but its way to complected for doing on MPFI unless you have the tools, What is the boost this will be running?


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Old 15th March 2012, 08:11   #44
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

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...

how about retarding the timing? but its way to complected for doing on MPFI unless you have the tools, What is the boost this will be running?

Pramod
We will be retarding the timing as desired. It is very simple to retard or advance timing with the Unichip - not only across the board, but also selectively based on rpm and load.

We are planning to run it at around 0.5 bar (7 psi) boost.
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Old 15th March 2012, 13:54   #45
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@anekho - will surely start a thread on the swift supercharger project.
Great! Looking forward to it!

Also, I was wondering, how feasible is it to turbocharge the new swift with the 1.2L K-series engine? All the turbo-swift projects so far have been on the good old 1.3L mill.
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