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Old 15th March 2012, 14:59   #46
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

I have seen one k-series being turboed running at 7 psi. Don't have any details or how the car is now.
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Old 16th March 2012, 11:41   #47
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

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Originally Posted by anekho View Post
Great! Looking forward to it!

Also, I was wondering, how feasible is it to turbocharge the new swift with the 1.2L K-series engine? All the turbo-swift projects so far have been on the good old 1.3L mill.
I dont see any problem in turbocharging any engine ! Only that we have not got an enquiry for that.

Some progress yesterday - did the first round of tuning. The wastegate simply is not upto it - boost keeps climbing so had to stop at 5000 rpm.

Achieved 137 bhp at 5000 rpm.

Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month-power.jpg

Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month-torque.jpg

Will make modifications to the wastegate and proceed - so no further tuning until this is resolved. Don't want to throw a rod on the dyno itself !

Last edited by sapl : 16th March 2012 at 11:57. Reason: layout change
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Old 16th March 2012, 12:39   #48
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

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Originally Posted by sapl View Post
Achieved 137 bhp at 5000 rpm.

Will make modifications to the wastegate and proceed - so no further tuning until this is resolved
Wow..137!!!! BTW what is a wastegate? Is it like a stopper for the air inflow?

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Don't want to throw a rod on the dyno itself !
Literally what did this mean
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Old 16th March 2012, 13:02   #49
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

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Wow..137!!!! BTW what is a wastegate? Is it like a stopper for the air inflow?

Literally what did this mean
A wastegate is a flap which bypasses the waste gases away from the turbine to reduce turbine speed and thereby reduce boost once the required boost has been achieved (waste gas + gate = wastegate). This in turn is activated by an actuator which is powered the pressurised air. This is the way to ensure that overboost does not take place.

The torque load of an engine is ultimately taken (from bottom to top) by the crank main bearings, the crank shaft, the connecting rod big end bearings, the connecting rods, the connecting rod small end bearings and the pistons.

The weakest link in this chain is typically the connecting rod. Hence when the force goes beyond a point (i.e when the torque increases beyond a point), the connecting rod will buckle and either bend or break. When this happens, since there is very little space for the engine, the rod will punch out the block and come out. This is called "throwing a rod" in autospeak !
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Old 17th March 2012, 23:05   #50
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

Did a test drive yesterday.

Since the car is fully tuned upto 5000 rpmm, decided to take it out for a spin to see how it feels.

Very interesting to see the underestimating public see the Gypsy shoot past - especially some bikers and cars !

Today we have begin working on some of the finishing touches including the external wastegate.

Should have the car all ready to go around Wednesday next.
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Old 18th March 2012, 12:57   #51
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Post Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

hii sapl, the light u gave on turbocharging was really a boost to me but I have questions here, I'm planing to buy a gypsy 410, dont have budget to go for a 410W or 413W, is it possible to install a forced induction system on the old 970cc F10A engine? i think its from suzuki samurai series, and another doubt is that is it possible to charge the engine without the top mounted inter cooler ? im running on a low budget thats why looking to cut down at the cost of loosing some horse over the inter cooler, and what are the differences when installing a turbo on a carb engine? I dont have tools or parts here but I have a bit f knowledge over the normal stock engines(not a mech or btech guy, just learned on the way from my vehicles n net), please shed some light on these... thnx
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Old 19th March 2012, 07:47   #52
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

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Originally Posted by neon View Post
hii sapl, the light u gave on turbocharging was really a boost to me

is it possible to install a forced induction system on the old 970cc F10A engine?

is it possible to charge the engine without the top mounted inter cooler ?
....looking to cut down at the cost of loosing some horse over the inter cooler,

what are the differences when installing a turbo on a carb engine?
That's an ego boost for me !!

A turbocharger can be installed on virtually any engine as long as the internals are mechanically capable of taking the extra loads and stresses.

The intercooler's purpose is not just to yield more power, but to reduce the temperature of the charge air. Cooler charge air gives the advantage of more knock resistance (and therefore the ability to run on lower grade fuel). Hence the boost will have to be really low if you are using non intercooled setup without opting for a higher grade fuel.

There are 2 main types of carburettor installation - the turbo before the carburettor or after. You can read about the draw through and blow through setups on the net.

The main issue in a carburettor based turbo installation is fuel control. EFI allows much more precise control over fuelling. You will need considerable experience and patience to tune a turbocharged car with a carburettor.
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Old 19th March 2012, 13:13   #53
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Post Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

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Originally Posted by sapl View Post
That's an ego boost for me !!

A turbocharger can be installed on virtually any engine as long as the internals are mechanically capable of taking the extra loads and stresses.

The intercooler's purpose is not just to yield more power, but to reduce the temperature of the charge air. Cooler charge air gives the advantage of more knock resistance (and therefore the ability to run on lower grade fuel). Hence the boost will have to be really low if you are using non intercooled setup without opting for a higher grade fuel.

There are 2 main types of carburettor installation - the turbo before the carburettor or after. You can read about the draw through and blow through setups on the net.

The main issue in a carburettor based turbo installation is fuel control. EFI allows much more precise control over fuelling. You will need considerable experience and patience to tune a turbocharged car with a carburettor.
points noted, thanks sapl, just one more question, if I take a 410, would I be able to change the engine to a FI G13BA or BB from a gypsy or an esteem(heard those engines are same) later with the same gearbox and transfer case from the 410? I could go for the gearbox from a king also but would like to retain the TC of the 410, is this possible?
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Old 19th March 2012, 18:01   #54
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

@ sapl, not to take your thread off topic, but just my 2 cents worth

Quote:
Originally Posted by neon View Post
points noted, thanks sapl, just one more question, if I take a 410, would I be able to change the engine to a FI G13BA or BB from a gypsy or an esteem(heard those engines are same)
Technically speaking, You can change to any engine, provided your engine bay has space to accommodate the new engine. The esteem and gypsy engines are the same engines technically, in the carb version they have different carburetors to suit their operations, and in the MPFI version they have different maps and ECUs. The hardware is almost the same(parts are interchangeable)

Quote:
Originally Posted by neon View Post
later with the same gearbox and transfer case from the 410?
You cannot, you have to change to the new king GB and TC

Quote:
Originally Posted by neon View Post
I could go for the gearbox from a king also but would like to retain the TC of the 410, is this possible?
Not possible, I am not able to understand what is the point here of planning everything keeping a MG410 in mind, if its cost then mind you the parts for mg410 is more dearer and the 410 is so obsolete that finding a good one is an impossible job(unless you already have one), finding a 410w is relatively easier, from your questions i reckon you intend to do a bit of offroading, if my memory serves me right 410's were sold till 93 post which 410Ws were introduced and in 96-98 these gave way to the king and in 2000 the king MPFI. so what you might be looking for is a pre 93 (20 year old) gypsy. if you are so keen on a gypsy, look for one at a hill station near to you or Delhi should be your best bet, there are threads on how to acquire an Ex Army gypsy, and this is only if you are on a strict budget initially and are going to inherit as fortune soon.


Trust me, i have a friend in WB who bought a 410 for a low amount and sold for a lower amount within days. you would be better off with a jeep(540) than a dinosaur gypsy.

Buying a old gypsy is like eloping with a girl, most people don't realize what they have done till its too late

Just my 2 cents


Pramod

Last edited by pramodkumar : 19th March 2012 at 18:05.
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Old 20th March 2012, 14:44   #55
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

are you running at 1 bar already? your power figures indicate so.
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Old 20th March 2012, 18:08   #56
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Smile Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
@ sapl, not to take your thread off topic, but just my 2 cents worth



Technically speaking, You can change to any engine, provided your engine bay has space to accommodate the new engine. The esteem and gypsy engines are the same engines technically, in the carb version they have different carburetors to suit their operations, and in the MPFI version they have different maps and ECUs. The hardware is almost the same(parts are interchangeable)



You cannot, you have to change to the new king GB and TC



Not possible, I am not able to understand what is the point here of planning everything keeping a MG410 in mind, if its cost then mind you the parts for mg410 is more dearer and the 410 is so obsolete that finding a good one is an impossible job(unless you already have one), finding a 410w is relatively easier, from your questions i reckon you intend to do a bit of offroading, if my memory serves me right 410's were sold till 93 post which 410Ws were introduced and in 96-98 these gave way to the king and in 2000 the king MPFI. so what you might be looking for is a pre 93 (20 year old) gypsy. if you are so keen on a gypsy, look for one at a hill station near to you or Delhi should be your best bet, there are threads on how to acquire an Ex Army gypsy, and this is only if you are on a strict budget initially and are going to inherit as fortune soon.


Trust me, i have a friend in WB who bought a 410 for a low amount and sold for a lower amount within days. you would be better off with a jeep(540) than a dinosaur gypsy.

Buying a old gypsy is like eloping with a girl, most people don't realize what they have done till its too late

Just my 2 cents


Pramod
thanks a lot pramodkumar, I dont have years of experience with gypsy, used for a few days from my friend and then info from net, for me getting a gypsy around here is a bit harder than it seems, I tried to find one inside my budget and never got one till now(budget is around 80k to 1.2L max), I know its foolish to look for a good gypsy in this price range but I have my constrains. once again thanks for the details on gypsy, and I wanted to keep the TC from 410 because I read that it has a slightly high gear ratio than the kings TC, thought that it would do a bit good to me if I get more torque from that TC, just a thought nothing more
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Old 20th March 2012, 22:22   #57
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

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Originally Posted by neon View Post
if I take a 410, would I be able to change the engine to a FI G13BA or BB from a gypsy or an esteem(heard those engines are same) later with the same gearbox and transfer case from the 410? I could go for the gearbox from a king also but would like to retain the TC of the 410, is this possible?
It is certainly possible to swap the engine. Whether the effort is worth it or not is a call you have to take. In fact at this point of time we have a customers Gypsy for a similar engine swap.

However, it should be remembered that the Gypsy MPFI engine and the Esteem MPFI engine have some subtle differences:


For example,
Esteem has a crank sensor, Gypsy does not.
Gypsy Cam sensor is different from Esteem's.
Gypsy cam is different from Esteem, as it has a gear drive for the CAM sensor.
The sump of the engines are different.
The oil take up pipe is different.
Inlet manifold is also different.
The wiring looms are different

Keeping all this in mind, you have to take a call as to whether this is worth it or not !

@kutlee - yes, running close to 1 bar boost. Need to control it at around 0.5 bar.

Last edited by sapl : 20th March 2012 at 22:23.
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Old 22nd March 2012, 00:52   #58
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

@SAPL,
What are your thoughts on a flashback arrestor?

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 22nd March 2012, 22:01   #59
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
@SAPL,
What are your thoughts on a flashback arrestor?

Regards
Sutripta
Hi

I presume you are asking this because of the additional injector location.

Flashback arrestors always restrict flow.

In this application I see no need for a flashback arrestor.

Cheers
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Old 23rd March 2012, 20:34   #60
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Default Re: Turbo charged Street Gypsy - project of the month

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Originally Posted by sapl View Post
Hi

I presume you are asking this because of the additional injector location.
Yes.

Quote:
Flashback arrestors always restrict flow.
True. Increase boost!


Quote:
In this application I see no need for a flashback arrestor.
Your choice of compromises (as is true of all engineering), but think safety (of product) should get a lot of weightage.

Regards
Sutripta
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