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Old 3rd April 2015, 10:07   #31
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Default Re: Bought used Ikon, got ripped off big time

@RogueRider, the title of your thread is misleading to say the least. I know you may be feeling cheated, but I cannot see how the seller cheated you in any way. If anyone is trying to rip you off, it is the Ford A.S.S.

1) There is a dent in the oil sump. Is it big enough to warrant replacement of the sump? What problem is the dent in the sump causing in the normal operation of the engine?
[If you had checked the underbody of the car before finalizing the deal, you would have spotted this dent and may be negotiated another 5K off the deal.]

2) Timing belt replacement - please check what your Owner's Manual says. If you are ready to pay the money, Ford A.S.S. will be happy to replace your entire engine. If the manual says xxx kilometres / yyy years and you have reached either of the conditions, replace it.

But, if I was in your position, I would simply replace the timing belt and have peace of mind for the next few years that there is one less reason that my engine would sieze on me. Trust me, it is better to spend 9.5K now than get a bill of 1.5L a few months down the line.

3) Primary pump diesel leak - please take it to a trust-worthy FNG (ask other Bangalore BHP-ians for help in finding one if you don't know of any) and ask them if it can be repaired. Most of the times, there are specialists who can repair expensive components which A.S.S. is not authorized / interested to repair.

4) Power steering rack and main hose - This is not a regular wear and tear item. Is there any fluid leakage? Did you complain of an ineffective power steering? Why do they want you to spend 23K on this?

5) A/C cooling ineffective - Condenser has a dent. I don't think a simple dent on the condenser can have much effect on the A/C cooling. Ask an FNG to repair it for you if it is indeed the condenser. May be the Ford A.S.S. wants to push an non-moving part forward and came up with this reason. What if a simple A/C gas refill solves the issue? Take it to an shop specialized in A/C repair.

6) Ckp sensor - I am not sure which sensor this is - but why does Ford want you to replace it?

Ask specific questions to Ford and post your answers here. There are knowledgeable members who can and will help you.

And before you hand over your car to any A.S.S. or FNG, get the job details in writing along with clear quotation, to avoid any heart-burn later on. It is easy to blame the ex-owner for all the problems in the vehicle, but to be fair to him, he may not even have been aware of any of these before selling the vehicle to you. Remember - we all get used to small niggles in our vehicles over a period of time and drive on.

Enjoy your car.
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Old 3rd April 2015, 10:15   #32
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Default Re: Bought used Ikon, got ripped off big time

Rider, you are being taken for a Ride!!

I am a past Ikon owner and can vouch that the Ford ASC is a big time scam place especially for the older/discontinued models.
Add to that, the exorbitant labour rates.

Pls. take it to a FNG and have the car checked thoroughly. I am sure that the max. you will have to put in from your pocket will not exceed Rs. 10K.
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Old 3rd April 2015, 10:15   #33
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Default Re: Bought used Ikon, got ripped off big time

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogueRider View Post
1. Oil sump has a dent and needs to be replaced - 6.5k
2. Timing belt replacement - 9.5k
3. Primary pump diesel leak - 15k
4. Power steering rack and main hose - 23k
5. A/c not cooling efficiently, condenser has a dent - 7k
6. Ckp sensor - 4k.

They quoted roughly 70k excluding labour and taxes.
Hello RogueRider,

I suggest you go for a second opinion. Better if it is a mechanic that you have befriended during your previous service visit perhaps.

Most of the items listed seem to be unnecessary unless you have an explanation for each by the service manager. I fell that A.S.S. have their targets to complete and give you ridiculous estimates.

Regarding (4) if it is a small dent in the condensor it wont effect cooling much, just a sales strategy. Check if the divertor value is working fine, a usual problem with the Ikon or jut get the AC gas filled topped up, that worked for me.

Lastly, be ready to shell out quiet a bit since it is a second hand (in India) if you really want to keep it smart for long. Good luck.
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Old 3rd April 2015, 12:14   #34
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Default Re: Bought used Ikon, got ripped off big time

If you don't have an option to give it back, best thing to do is approach an independent outfit and see what are the essentials that needs to be taken care. Even things like AC condenser if done outside with an expert will be cheaper.

Does the engine have timing belt or chain? If it is belt, replace it.
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Old 3rd April 2015, 13:03   #35
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Default Re: Bought used Ikon, got ripped off big time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Does the engine have timing belt or chain? If it is belt, replace it.
IIRC 1.4 Tdci comes with Timing Belt
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Old 3rd April 2015, 14:01   #36
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Default Re: Bought used Ikon, got ripped off big time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
If you don't have an option to give it back, best thing to do is approach an independent outfit and see what are the essentials that needs to be taken care. Even things like AC condenser if done outside with an expert will be cheaper.

Does the engine have timing belt or chain? If it is belt, replace it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Boss View Post
IIRC 1.4 Tdci comes with Timing Belt

For the 1.4 TDCI Ford recommends a timing belt change at every 5 years or 1,000,00 KM in a fiesta.

But The same engine on an Ikon - is rated at 60,000 KM or 5 years. (can you check the user manual on this? )
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Old 3rd April 2015, 19:04   #37
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Default Re: Bought used Ikon, got ripped off big time

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogueRider View Post
Hey guys,

1. Oil sump has a dent and needs to be replaced - 6.5k
2. Timing belt replacement - 9.5k
3. Primary pump diesel leak - 15k
4. Power steering rack and main hose - 23k
5. A/c not cooling efficiently, condenser has a dent - 7k
6. Ckp sensor - 4k.
Please do not believe what the service center says blindly. I had bought a Honda City ZX iDSI 2006 model last year. Odo was at 67K and immediately opted for the Honda authorised service center (Crystal Honda, Bavdhan) to get the vehicle in the best condition.

Urgent and Immediate Replacement Suggested (at 67K) were:
1. Lower Arm / Suspension related work (25K)
2. Clutch overhaul (13.5K)
3. Steering Rack Replacement (45K)
4. Rear Wheel Bearings (9.5K)

I had the patience to check with second, third, fourth opinions. Now the car is nearing 90K and running on the same clutch and steering rack niggle-free. Only wheel bearings and suspension related work was required to be done which was also preventive and nothing major.

It's always better to go for multiple opinions & options patiently as its much easier to fleece someone who's just bought a used car and is anyway expecting a few problems. Just my two cents.

Last edited by jagzrk : 3rd April 2015 at 19:05.
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Old 4th April 2015, 03:59   #38
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Default Re: Bought used Ikon, got ripped off big time

Thank you all for your inputs, I'll make some updates/clarifications:

Firstly, the car broke down today, I have parked it on the side of a small lane few km's from my home. More on this below.

When I went for a TD, I took a known driver with me, he has several lakh km under his belt and he is knowledgeable about cars. Neither of us noticed any knocking in the vehicle, the suspension was fine, the acceleration was good for a used 67bhp car, brakes were good, a/c wasn't cooling well but we figured we'd just fill gas (its possible, that all it needs is gas, haven't ruled that out.) The upholstery was falling apart and that was my main worry, even 3m refused to detail the interiors saying it'd be a complete loss for me. But, there was no sign of mechanical wear and tear, I agree with anyone who says I ought to have taken it to a Ford service center. I did not do that.

A mechanic at Ford told me in a whisper to take the car out of there as they were going to charge me a bomb for doing up my car, official estimate: 70k parts + labour & tax.I only changed the oil, brake fluid and other minor things and left.

To everyone who is playing devils advocate saying the seller didn't know the car is damaged, he told me all the vehicle needs is an oil change and upholstery work needs to be done, he verbally assured me there is no work on the car.

After I found out the details at Ford, I called and yelled at him. Later, When I cooled down I called him again and asked why he ripped me off and he said he had informed me there is 40k worth maintenance work on the car, in reality he had never said anything close to this. I went to his office today and he asked me to get it repaired at a local garage, I told him I want my money back and asked him to take the car back since no documents have been processed. He replied saying there's another buyer and he will try to push it on him. I told him all I need is my money back not the details, since it is his shop and I'm not going to tell him how to run his place of business.

Saying so I left the shop, on my way back home I stopped the car to meet a friend, when I tried starting, it wouldn't. Fuel was low, so I filled 6 liters in bottles and a can. Still wouldn't start, I kept squeezing the pump as my friend tried starting her up, she still wouldn't start. I brought a mechanic to the scene and he started taking the diesel in his mouth and spitting it out, it started and in a few seconds it died again, the mechanic concluded that the pump has an air leak and he'll fix it tomorrow.

I am in two minds, I have spent 1.9L on the car plus 5k for a service at Ford, I am wondering whether I should spend another 40k on it at an FNG and use it for a couple of years or get it in running condition and convince the seller to return my money, cut my losses and look for another car. Kindly advice


Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
@Roguerider

Did you check the a/c cooling during TD ? Mild cooling, hardly worked.

Why does the service centre want you to replace the steering rack & main hose ? Is there a problem with the steering ? How did the steering feel during the TD ?, so who ripped you off - the seller or the service centre ?

The seller, I have addressed your question above. No, I did not check the under body of the vehicle before purchasing it, I did check the a/c, it wasn't cooling efficiently, I figured I'll just fill some gas and it'll be fine. Steering is fine, but it does creak when making hard turns and also there is a visible leak when examined from below.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Boss View Post
2) How did they arrive at this solution of changing timing belt? Is it by age or mileage or physical condition? Check with a reliable mechanic. I don't think there's anything wrong with the belt, I think its more to do with the car being 6 years old.
3) 15k is for fixing the leak or pump replacement? Replacement
6) What is Ckp sensor?
Google says its a crank sensor

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Cheated by whom?. While buying a used car, its the sole responsibility of the buyer to check the car extensively before making the purchase. Its only a matter of goodwill and decency of the seller to share 100% of the niggles. In this case, I have a feeling the seller might not have even known half the below mentioned problems. I stick to my stand pal, the seller blatantly lied to me saying there are no issues with the car, then he backtracks and lies that he informed me I need to spend 40k on it, where I come from that is cheating. Is the leak visible? Just to make sure they are not scamming you. There is a gearbox and P/s rake leak which is visible from underneath.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viju View Post
@RogueRider, the title of your thread is misleading to say the least. I know you may be feeling cheated, but I cannot see how the seller cheated you in any way. If anyone is trying to rip you off, it is the Ford A.S.S. I have addressed this, in this post. I stick to my stand.

1) There is a dent in the oil sump. Is it big enough to warrant replacement of the sump? What problem is the dent in the sump causing in the normal operation of the engine? About 15% dent
Trust me, it is better to spend 9.5K now than get a bill of 1.5L a few months down the line. You've got a good point.

4) Power steering rack and main hose - Is there any fluid leakage? Why do they want you to spend 23K on this? It doesn't drip, but it does show signs of leakage when examined from below.

It is easy to blame the ex-owner for all the problems in the vehicle, but to be fair to him, he may not even have been aware of any of these before selling the vehicle to you. I Bought it from a used showroom. He was aware, and was looking to get rid of it , I had a talk with him after I got the details of the maintenance work needed. He admitted that it had issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
If you don't have an option to give it back, best thing to do is approach an independent outfit and see what are the essentials that needs to be taken care. Even things like AC condenser if done outside with an expert will be cheaper.
Jaggu, I have addressed the story of returning the car above, can you please suggest a competent FNG?
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Old 4th April 2015, 14:19   #39
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Default Re: Bought used Ikon, got ripped off big time

@ Rogue

Most Ideal Scenario:

Take your money and run if you can.
This, coming from an ex Ikon owner, the spares for this car will kill you big time!!

The car, after 5-6 years demands too much attention.
Please also note the FNGs may not be competent to do a satisfactory work for your critical components. Why?

a) Genuine Ford Parts are not available OTC(though they have started it yet most critical components may not be available)
b) Ford ROCAM Engines are more complex to repair and most cases, complete replacement pushes the cost up.

There is no doubt that you will love the response and the feedback but for that your Ikon should be in the running condition!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogueRider View Post
Thank you all for your inputs, I'll make some updates/clarifications:

After I found out the details at Ford, I called and yelled at him. Later, When I cooled down I called him again and asked why he ripped me off and he said he had informed me there is 40k worth maintenance work on the car, in reality he had never said anything close to this. I went to his office today and he asked me to get it repaired at a local garage, I told him I want my money back and asked him to take the car back since no documents have been processed. He replied saying there's another buyer and he will try to push it on him. I told him all I need is my money back not the details, since it is his shop and I'm not going to tell him how to run his place of business.
Personal Opinion:
Very wrong approach to push you cup of woes to another unsuspecting individual.

You have taken the plunge, deal with it alone!! Push the dealer and ask for a refund.

Last edited by arnabchak : 4th April 2015 at 14:20.
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Old 4th April 2015, 14:35   #40
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Default Re: Bought used Ikon, got ripped off big time

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnabchak View Post
@ Rogue


Personal Opinion:
Very wrong approach to push you cup of woes to another unsuspecting individual.

You have taken the plunge, deal with it alone!! Push the dealer and ask for a refund.
If the dealer gives me a refund, he will obviously push this car on someone else, though its unethical, that is how he makes his living. I will consider myself very lucky if I can get what I paid. Also, mine is a diesel, not a Rocam petrol.
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Old 4th April 2015, 18:37   #41
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Default Re: Just bought a Ford Ikon. Need tips

If it is a dealer push firmly for a refund even if there is a delay. Somehow collect the cash back.

As far as workshops go, there are many in BLR just search the directory for reviews and feedbacks. I have been little out of touch of non dealership workshops until recently. Now i use Bay 6 since they are friends and work is reliable.
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Old 4th April 2015, 21:07   #42
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Default Re: Bought used Ikon, got ripped off big time

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogueRider View Post
I agree with anyone who says I ought to have taken it to a Ford service center. I did not do that.
.....
After I found out the details at Ford, I called and yelled at him.
Knowing the mistake is at your end, there is no point in yelling at the seller.
I would suggest take the car to FNG for a second opinion, if they quote a reasonable price, get the things corrected and enjoy the ownership. Returning the car is another option, but there is no guarantee you get another trouble free used car.
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Old 5th April 2015, 14:04   #43
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Default Re: Bought used Ikon, got ripped off big time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Boss View Post
Knowing the mistake is at your end, there is no point in yelling at the seller.
I would suggest take the car to FNG for a second opinion, if they quote a reasonable price, get the things corrected and enjoy the ownership. Returning the car is another option, but there is no guarantee you get another trouble free used car.
Big Boss is correct!

This car was bought from a dealer of an Individual ?

Whomever you bought the car from, this is your mistake. You took your own sweet time, test drove the car with a so called "expect" behind the wheel and finally took delivery of the car.
Before paying up, did you not do a total inspection of the car ?

This is not a brand new car from the showroom, Even when buying a brand new car we have an extensive check (PDI) list before excepting the car.
How can you be careless about buying a 5-6 year old used car?
A car can break down for a number of reasons.
Now if the car is giving trouble this is purely on you. I wouldn't blame the seller in anyway.

No one coerced you into buying this car.
You parted with your 1.9 Lakhs based on the feedback from the "expert".
Now that you feel you got robbed you expect the seller to take back the car and pay you back the money?

Fords generally don’t age very well, the Ford car what we have has an steering oil leak. I didn't even know about this until I did a visual of the underbelly! God knows what other problems are there.

You bought the car on own on free will, Man up and own your mistakes. Repair it an FNG and if you are still not happy with it, sell it!.

I know this sounds very harsh but this is the truth.

Someone I know was stupid enough to buy an ikon 1.9 Diesel. He got the car at a throw away price.
The day the car came home he lost his peace. (Continues break downs, Coolant leaks, heating issues, oil leaks, electrical problems)The repairs alone costed him more than the cost of the car. 8 months later the car was sold.

He sold it at a huge loss but he was happy the car wasnt in his drive away anymore. I still remember that car. Red colored Ikon. (reminded me of the car named Christine) Scary car!
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Old 10th April 2015, 18:33   #44
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Default Re: Just bought a Ford Ikon. Need tips

The Ikon I bought apparently has some major problems with the engine head, it has to be opened and smoothed out. This was caused by a non functional radiator fan which overheated the vehicle and was discovered accidentally by my mechanic while checking why the a/c wasn't working properly. Now total work that needs to be done is: replace power steering main hose, timing belt, oil sump tinkering, once the engine is opened up the extent of the damage will be revealed. A Rear wheel tyre punctured the day before, it cut such a big gash on the tread, I had to replace the tyre. The battery died the day before that and I've bought a new one.

Thanks for all the support!
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Old 10th April 2015, 18:36   #45
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Default Re: Just bought a Ford Ikon. Need tips

Sorry to see this, hope you get the car fixed soon. Did the dealer respond or you will be footing the whole bill?
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