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Old 15th January 2013, 18:12   #1
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Cool 5-point Harnesses / Belt-In-Seat seat belts in Road Cars?

I really hope this is the right place to post this topic, However if not, would the mods please shift this to the appropriate one?


Now coming to the issue, I was looking at the interiors of my car (I-20) and i was thinking of some change that could be brought into it and then I came across this thought of changing the seat belt. Nothing really great about it, but my brother-in-law and I were talking about the seat-belts and we were discussing about the Belt-In-Seat kind of seat belts which could pretty much be a change (not sure if it would be refreshing one though).

I am thinking BIS would be something that would be running down my shoulders like suspenders and may be, just may be, making it a little more safer. I am not sure how safe, could some gurus throw some light on it?

The following is the link that contains a list of different kinds of seat-belts.

http://www.sjtsa.org/TYPES%20OF%20SEAT%20BELTS.pdf

If the BIS would be safer and if it's possible to get it done, I would like to get it done in my car.

Any suggestions or thoughts on this would be much appreciated.
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Old 16th January 2013, 11:08   #2
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Default re: 5-point Harnesses / Belt-In-Seat seat belts in Road Cars?

You are driving a car with a 5 star safety rating. I don't see an advantage in moving to BIS seat belts. Please don't mess up your inbuilt seatbelt system, mounting points etc. It's already world class.
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Old 16th January 2013, 11:36   #3
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Default re: 5-point Harnesses / Belt-In-Seat seat belts in Road Cars?

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
You are driving a car with a 5 star safety rating. I don't see an advantage in moving to BIS seat belts. Please don't mess up your inbuilt seatbelt system, mounting points etc. It's already world class.
Alright, thanks GTO. But is there any specific reason why BIS does not seem to be that popular ? i have hardly seen a car here in India with BIS seat belts.
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Old 16th January 2013, 14:00   #4
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Default re: 5-point Harnesses / Belt-In-Seat seat belts in Road Cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brute_force View Post
Alright, thanks GTO. But is there any specific reason why BIS does not seem to be that popular ? i have hardly seen a car here in India with BIS seat belts.
It's just cumbersome for a daily drive. A normal 3 point seat belt retracts automatically when you release the belt. One can't use that on the harness.

My jeep has both a harness and a regular belt. The regular is for city driving and the harness when i'm off the road.

If you see wiki, GM found that there was no added advantage.

Interesting read:
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/artic...umentid=434695
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Old 16th January 2013, 14:26   #5
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Default re: 5-point Harnesses / Belt-In-Seat seat belts in Road Cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brute_force View Post
I am thinking BIS would be something that would be running down my shoulders like suspenders and may be, just may be, making it a little more safer. I am not sure how safe, could some gurus throw some light on it?
4-point harnesses have the advantage over typical 3-point seatbelts when it comes to keeping you secured in your seat during a roll-over. 5-point harnesses also keep you from submarining (is sliding out from the bottom of the belt). Overall, they probably are safer IF other support systems for them are present (roll cage, anatomically correct racing seat, etc).


Retrofitting something like this in an i10 would be a fairly large task (if you actually want to do it CORRECTLY).

Firstly, the belts need to be attached to a secure and safe part of the car's body. The i10 will not have this mounting point ready.

Secondly, you need a seat that is designed for these belts - not just in terms of holes etc, but in terms of being able to take the force of the belts that are routed through it during an accident.

Thirdly, to make full use of these belts safely, you'd probably need a roll cage (which also serves as a mounting point for the shoulder straps of the belts in most cases).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brute_force View Post
...is there any specific reason why BIS does not seem to be that popular ? i have hardly seen a car here in India with BIS seat belts.
  • It's hugely inconvenient
  • You have to move the seat belts off the seat every time you sit down.
  • You have to pull 4 (or 5) belts together with both hands (instead of just one for a 3-point ELR belt with a single hand)
  • Every time you get out, the heavy center buckle hits something as you move it off your body.
  • It needs to be securely mounted to a re-enforced and safe part of the car's body. (This would probably interfere with rear passenger space).
  • You'd need different seats.
  • It's probably more expensive.


If you're concerned about safety, theres a 100 other things that you could do to keep you safer on the road.

An analogy from the racing scene: You can spend $2000 to turbo-charge your car and shave 5 seconds off your lap time, or you could spend $300 on some training and practice, and shave 10 seconds off your lap time - in any car you drive.

cya
R

Last edited by Rehaan : 16th January 2013 at 14:38.
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Old 16th January 2013, 15:04   #6
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Default Re: 5-point Harnesses / Belt-In-Seat seat belts in Road Cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
.........
If you see wiki, GM found that there was no added advantage.

Interesting read:
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/artic...umentid=434695
Thanks Tejas. That was a good read indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post

........

If you're concerned about safety, there's a 100 other things that you could do to keep you safer on the road.

An analogy from the racing scene: You can spend $2000 to turbo-charge your car and shave 5 seconds off your lap time, or you could spend $300 on some training and practice, and shave 10 seconds off your lap time - in any car you drive.

cya
R
Well that makes sense Rehaan. But like what i said, it was more towards a change in the interiors than more safety (even if not more safe than the already existing one). It really was informative.
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Old 17th January 2013, 11:21   #7
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Default Re: 5-point Harnesses / Belt-In-Seat seat belts in Road Cars?

Since we're talking about seat belts and i20 - how safe would it be to use a loosely clamped middle seat seatbelt with a 4 yr old kid. I am aware that ideally a car seat should be used, but am wondering what is the second best option. The middle seat belt typically does not have the same tension as others (since it's only a two point) and with the seat covers the tension is eased up quite a bit. It appears that a non-stretchable seat belt would do more harm than good. Just want to know whether anything can be done about that seat belt.
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Old 17th January 2013, 11:28   #8
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Default Re: 5-point Harnesses / Belt-In-Seat seat belts in Road Cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalpeshc View Post
Since we're talking about seat belts and i20 - how safe would it be to use a loosely clamped middle seat seatbelt with a 4 yr old kid. I am aware that ideally a car seat should be used, but am wondering what is the second best option. The middle seat belt typically does not have the same tension as others (since it's only a two point) and with the seat covers the tension is eased up quite a bit. It appears that a non-stretchable seat belt would do more harm than good. Just want to know whether anything can be done about that seat belt.
The rear middle seat with a lap-belt is not that safe, especially for a 4-year old. S/he should be seated with the child seat/booster seat. Unfortunately, in India, three 3-point seat belts in the rear comes only from D-segment onwards (Laura, Jetta, Fluence etc.)
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Old 17th January 2013, 11:38   #9
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Default Re: 5-point Harnesses / Belt-In-Seat seat belts in Road Cars?

In that case how should the middle seat belt be used irrespective of a child or adult? I am uncomfortable when someone sits in my car without a seat belt.
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Old 18th January 2013, 11:42   #10
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Default Re: 5-point Harnesses / Belt-In-Seat seat belts in Road Cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalpeshc View Post
In that case how should the middle seat belt be used irrespective of a child or adult? I am uncomfortable when someone sits in my car without a seat belt.
Sadly the lap belt is the only option for the rear middle passenger in most cars today. Having the middle passenger belted up with the lap belt is atleast better than no belt at all. Remember the old days when there used to be no seat belts in the back? or the front seats for that matter?

I recently had to travel in a hired Verito cab to a nearby town. While talking to the agency I had requested them to allot me a cab in "good condition". The guy said he had just got a brand new Verito and will be allotting the same. The car was "new" alright , but the owner had put new seat covers on it. In the process he had completely removed all the rear seat belts, which according to him were an obstruction for rear passengers. Such is the state of awareness in our country.

I've gotten so used to being belted up that I am uncomfortable when travelling in these so called luxury Volvo/ Merc buses, as none of the buses have seat belts for their passenger seats.
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Old 18th February 2013, 13:38   #11
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Default Re: 5-point Harnesses / Belt-In-Seat seat belts in Road Cars?

Technically a 5 point seatbelt with pretensioner is the safest option. It is also the most impractical for a a road car. The three point is the best practical compromise for a road car. It is easy to use, takes up little space and inconveniences no one.

If you want to install a 5 point belt, ensure it is done properly. If not it is a wasted effort
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