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Old 4th April 2013, 12:46   #31
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Default Re: Review & Ownership: RaceDynamics Dieseltronics Dual Channel - Punto 90HP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sommos View Post
Many thanks CD for sharing your experience in details with all.
This thread is now the official review of the dual channel RD box.
I really envy you people for the facility to visit the RD office and checking the box with the RD people on board.

Enjoy the power of the RD box and drive safe.
Thanks Sommos. Thread is not completed yet. The dyno run, some timings comparison and mileage updates are in the pipeline. I believe only then it will make a true report. Hoping to finish it soon.

They do it in other places too. Check mobike008's thread where he did the testing with Chetan in hyderabad. I'm not sure which all places fall under their radar though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scofield View Post
CD,

Congratulations bud !! I can very well understand how you are feeling currently and was excited the same way you are.

Let your 90 clock few miles with the chip - and after few thousands you would feel that it has become more smooth.

Coming to eating the 1.6 TDi/CRDI for breakfast and all - you are being too sarcastic .Let a so called such car zip past you on a highway and I very well know what your reaction would be to that.

So when are Karthik/Krishna planning to buy it for their steads?

I feel really happy to read your experience and may you have many happy and safe miles ahead.

Its time for a catch up but dont know when :-)
Karthik - Can't tell about him. He's too unpredictable. Call him up one day and he'll be thinking of an Abarth purchase, and the next day he will be checking out Ninja 300 bookings and the next day talking about RD box. I wont be surprised if he joins the bandwagon soon.

Krishna - Although he would like to jump in soon enough - all the common sense in the world would urge him to do so after his ladakh-leh trip this year. As i have mentioned to him earlier - I'd say Leh is 100 times better anytime.

Did you get to drive the dual channel box in amit_mechengg's car? If so - can you post the comparison between the two RD boxes? If you see the bottom of this report, I've redirected that question to you/amit.
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Originally Posted by hurricanes View Post
Lol.. I was returning back to Hyderabad from Bangalore that day and I know it even rained Giraffe's that day.. Seriously!
And can you believe it didn't rain a drop in south bangalore? I was shocked to read a PM from Karthik asking when it rained in bangalore!
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurricanes View Post
The RD key looks fantastic. So how does one switch from P1 to P2. Just the click of a button? and it can be done on the move right? .
Yes. On the fly and the response is felt within few seconds. Infact, switching from E to P2 - you can see the rpm dance for a second (When car is idling) before falling back to normal idling speeds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurricanes View Post
I recently met rider60 in the recent Hyd - bang Mega meet and had a short discussion with him. He did say that performance has increased a lot (much much better than Pete's) and that he was getting a mileage of 13-14 Kmpl. Probably I misheard it with all the noise but getting 13-14 Kmpl is just not right. A lot depends on the driving style but still 13-14 is just too low.

Since re-maps offers much better performance over tuning boxes, I am much interested in learning how much performance he gained by going for a re-map and at what RPM does the engine comes alive and starts pulling, pulling and pulling.

Hope he reads this post and responds.
Yes. Waiting for his reponse. Mobike008 will be trying to bring this thread to his attention as well, going by his earlier post.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 4th April 2013 at 12:48.
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Old 4th April 2013, 14:53   #32
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Default re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

If that 30% gain is to be believed, then it should be better than a T Jet which it isn't in your opinion. 30% over stock should be a shade more powerful than a T Jet on paper. A T Jet is on another planet in my opinion. The nature of a petrol engine (forget turbo charged) itself allows the rpm's to rise much faster than a diesel and this gets you in to the power band faster. Engine response is crucial as well. Diesels have always suffered in this department. I have yet to drive a diesel that can beat the response of the old Ford 1.6l Rocam engine. Another thing I have noticed with well tuned petrol engines (NA or Turbo) is power never really tapers off with rising rpm. Modern diesels have surely caught up with petrols but when it comes to driving pleasure, nothing beats a nice naturally aspirated petrol. Diesels rule in economy though. The impact to fuel economy based on driving conditions is far less when compared to a petrol.

Having driven a stock Punto 90, I was very disappointed with the engine. The gearbox is horrible for what the car is supposed to be. It was so bad that I felt a 75bhp Swift to be far more fun and all this is just because Suzuki tuned the engine so much better. Its also a known fact that the Swift is a lighter car, has a much superior gearbox and short travel clutch which adds to the fun factor.
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Old 4th April 2013, 15:20   #33
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Default re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
If that 30% gain is to be believed, then it should be better than a T Jet which it isn't in your opinion. 30% over stock should be a shade more powerful than a T Jet on paper. A T Jet is on another planet in my opinion. The nature of a petrol engine (forget turbo charged) itself allows the rpm's to rise much faster than a diesel and this gets you in to the power band faster. Engine response is crucial as well. Diesels have always suffered in this department. I have yet to drive a diesel that can beat the response of the old Ford 1.6l Rocam engine. Another thing I have noticed with well tuned petrol engines (NA or Turbo) is power never really tapers off with rising rpm. Modern diesels have surely caught up with petrols but when it comes to driving pleasure, nothing beats a nice naturally aspirated petrol. Diesels rule in economy though. The impact to fuel economy based on driving conditions is far less when compared to a petrol.

Having driven a stock Punto 90, I was very disappointed with the engine. The gearbox is horrible for what the car is supposed to be. It was so bad that I felt a 75bhp Swift to be far more fun and all this is just because Suzuki tuned the engine so much better. Its also a known fact that the Swift is a lighter car, has a much superior gearbox and short travel clutch which adds to the fun factor.
Glad to have a T-Jet owner comment.

First things first, I haven't had the pleasure of driving a proper T-Jet yet, thats why i refrained from making comparisons. My T-Jet drive was an abused example which simply refused to revv higher.

To put things fair - I qouted POVs from KarthikK, who owns T-Jet as well as Punto 90HP, and his close relative has the old 1.6 Palio too.

1. No. Its not even close to the T-Jet. I dont believe in 30% and 40% figures yet too, but I do feel the response has increased significantly, specially in P2 mode.

2. T-Jet feels 2X faster than 90HP and 1.5X faster than P2 mode in his opinion. (But on paper, 90HP should be close to T-Jet while P2 should be matching T-Jet).

3. All figures should become clear once I get to dyno it.

4. Swift is fun, no doubt. I had even started a thread earlier comparing a swift diesel to a palio 1.6 in terms of FTD. I really loved it THAT much. I dont want to bring that comparison here though. Let this discussion be limited to the RD box. We all know swift with an RD box is also a big step up compared to the stock swift. Hey, its not RD's fault that FIAT cars are heavy!

5. P2 mode in RD box doesn't let the power taper as much as stock. Its way more revv friendly. Karthik refers to this mode as turbo-petrol mode, as the response is similar (though much less) as the turbo-petrol T-Jet.

6. If you read kryptonite's skoda rapid thread - its been dyno'ed at 148.5bhp, but still takes around 9.5 secs to 100 - which is slow compared to similar powered petrols.

Hope this answers. (although there were no questions in your post itself). And yes - I'd be happy if you can take me for a drive in your T-Jet someday.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 4th April 2013 at 15:28.
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Old 4th April 2013, 18:50   #34
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Default re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

Glad to see you take the plunge finally! Was reading about how you wanted performance upgrades on your ownership thread. Reading kryptonite,motomaverick and now your threads only makes it harder for me wait till its "safe" to get the Polo re-mapped. Hopefully end of this year!

Will keep an eye out for the dyno run,especially the torque figures

Have fun and drive safe!
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Old 6th April 2013, 17:46   #35
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Default re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

Completed 1000kms with the box today, two weeks since purchase.

So far, so good.

Will be starting mileage calculations from today.
Odometer: 31888.
RD Mode: P2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shashank.nk View Post
Was reading about how you wanted performance upgrades on your ownership thread. Reading kryptonite,motomaverick and now your threads only makes it harder for me wait till its "safe" to get the Polo re-mapped. Hopefully end of this year!
And your car makes me wish I had bought black/ red/ tuscan wine instead. Some colour which would look absolutely stunning after detailing. Atleast your wish will come true in the not-so-distant future. Mine will need to wait another 6-7 years.

Was not able to do the run today, and I'm not free for the next two weekends. Looks like it can be done only in May.
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Old 9th April 2013, 00:15   #36
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Default re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm



Qouting bangalore guys to answer the below question. Was there any noticeable increase in smoke noticed during the weekend drive?

I should have asked you to keep an eye, but I forgot amidst all the thrill. Did you notice by any chance?
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Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
Is it true that post-installation, the car emits more smoke? I heard this from a member who owns a Vista.
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Old 9th April 2013, 07:22   #37
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Default re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

I drive a 74 BHP Punto Em Pk and i'm really unhappy with the pickup as it's in her 4th year of ownership. Very tempting to pick one up, but i don't know if it's worth the investment considering the car will be due for a change very soon.

Punto is a very noisy car from my experience. So how has it affected the engine noise?
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Old 9th April 2013, 18:54   #38
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Default re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
If that 30% gain is to be believed, then it should be better than a T Jet which it isn't in your opinion. 30% over stock should be a shade more powerful than a T Jet on paper. A T Jet is on another planet in my opinion. The nature of a petrol engine (forget turbo charged) itself allows the rpm's to rise much faster than a diesel and this gets you in to the power band faster. Engine response is crucial as well. Diesels have always suffered in this department.
I guess they (RD) refer to improvement in peak power and off-peak power when they give approximate values with the box. The T-Jet being a turbo petrol has a larger pleasure zone and better revving capability. That said, I still feel the pulling power in P2 feels very close to a turbo petrol, and power does not taper off as easily as in normal (non-boxed) diesels as you accelerate through the rev range.

Quote:
Having driven a stock Punto 90, I was very disappointed with the engine. The gearbox is horrible for what the car is supposed to be. It was so bad that I felt a 75bhp Swift to be far more fun and all this is just because Suzuki tuned the engine so much better. Its also a known fact that the Swift is a lighter car, has a much superior gearbox and short travel clutch which adds to the fun factor.
Definitely agree on the shorter gearing, which they should have fixed when they were bringing out multiple iterations of the Emotion 90HP, Sport and now again rechristened to 90HP.

The Swift feels faster only due to the better gearing, but the VGT with well-tuned gear ratios will beat it hollow with lesser turbo lag, better mid range and high end grunt. In fact, the amazing-to-drive Swift that you refer to could be the pre-facelift version (pre-2011). The current gen Swift has lost much of that famed turbo kick and is now much more linear in acceleration across the rev range. Even the weight advantage of the current Swift is not much - just some 50 kg or so lesser than Punto. An extra female passenger or some luggage is enough to offset the weight advantage.

What I would have loved is the Swift with the VGT engine. That would have been killer! Imagine what an RD box on P2 could have done with that machine!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Glad to have a T-Jet owner comment.

First things first, I haven't had the pleasure of driving a proper T-Jet yet, thats why i refrained from making comparisons. My T-Jet drive was an abused example which simply refused to revv higher.

To put things fair - I qouted POVs from KarthikK, who owns T-Jet as well as Punto 90HP, and his close relative has the old 1.6 Palio too.
The next time we meet, I will get the T-Jet so you can compare the acceleration feel back to back with a turbo petrol.

In simple words, this is how I see it :

Palio 1.6 - linear, intense acceleration from the word go, till redline
Punto 1.3 90HP - sluggish acceleration until 1600 rpm, moderate acceleration from 1600-2500rpm, punchy acceleration from 2500rpm to 3500rpm, after which it tapers off
1.4 T-Jet - semi-sluggish moderate acceleration until 1800 rpm, double intense acceleration from 1800rpm to 5500rpm
Punto 1.3 90HP with P2 mode - sluggish acceleration until 1500rpm, moderate acceleration from 1500-2000rpm, 1.5x intense acceleration from 2000rpm to 4000rpm. Didn't try redlining so no idea when it tapers off.

Well, maybe the words turned out to be not-so-simple. Never mind.

Quote:
1. No. Its not even close to the T-Jet. I dont believe in 30% and 40% figures yet too, but I do feel the response has increased significantly, specially in P2 mode.

2. T-Jet feels 2X faster than 90HP and 1.5X faster than P2 mode in his opinion. (But on paper, 90HP should be close to T-Jet while P2 should be matching T-Jet).
I still stick to that stand. The 90HP on P2 might be making the same peak power value, but how it makes it and how soon it makes are the factors differing between the box'ed MultiJet and T-Jet.

Quote:
5. P2 mode in RD box doesn't let the power taper as much as stock. Its way more revv friendly. Karthik refers to this mode as turbo-petrol mode, as the response is similar (though much less) as the turbo-petrol T-Jet.
Like I had mentioned even in page 1, what I felt about the P2 was the urge to dart ahead, something which was missing with the stock map. Also, the range of pushed-to-your-seat feel has expanded vastly across the rev range, and the car keeps pulling and pulling like a turbo petrol. Definitely this mode is the closest way one can get to a turbo-petrol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krreddy View Post
I drive a 74 BHP Punto Em Pk and i'm really unhappy with the pickup as it's in her 4th year of ownership. Very tempting to pick one up, but i don't know if it's worth the investment considering the car will be due for a change very soon.
Why not go for the box? Anyway I believe you are out of warranty period. I found P1 to be impressive in terms of city driveability. There was lesser lag and more linear acceleration, which will be very useful in traffic and frequent start-stops.

Even if you change the car soon, I believe RD changes the box (connectors and maps) for your next car at no extra cost.

Quote:
Punto is a very noisy car from my experience. So how has it affected the engine noise?
Surprised that you say that. The MultiJet is one of the quieter, more refined oil burners you can pick up in the hatchback market. You ought to listen to some of the competition (barring the i20) to actually hear some diesel clatter noise *smiles*. To answer your question - From what I noticed on the box'ed MultiJet, there was no perceptible difference in noise. CD will know better than me since he has been driving it extensively.

Last edited by KarthikK : 9th April 2013 at 19:14.
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Old 10th April 2013, 03:25   #39
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Default re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

First of all - some bad news.

I'm facing some other issues with the car, and have removed the box temporarily for the sake of warranty. (Even though the box has nothing to do with the issue - dont want them to make prepare lame excuses around it!).

Back to stock - for atleast a week or may be even 2-3!

And in other news - I couldn't remove the box by myself, and had to go back to the RD office for it. My batterred ego recovered a bit when i saw them taking 15 mins to get it out. Lesson learned: Its removable before service alright, but the ease with which it can be removed depends on the car. Cruze is ultra easy, while Punto 90HP is a bit difficult due to the location of the connectors. I've heard its much harder on ford vehicles too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by krreddy View Post
I drive a 74 BHP Punto Em Pk and i'm really unhappy with the pickup as it's in her 4th year of ownership. Very tempting to pick one up, but i don't know if it's worth the investment considering the car will be due for a change very soon.

Punto is a very noisy car from my experience. So how has it affected the engine noise?
RD dual channel box is not available for 75HP Punto.

Single channel is available - however - since the car is out of warranty - why not just remap it? There will be significant difference in driveability compared to stock or even the single channel box. You might never know - you may be tempted to keep the car for longer, once its become more fun to drive.

Regarding the noise levels - i feel Punto (atleast the 90 which i own) is one of the better ones. Its nowhere close to the refinement levels offered by i20/ Swift, but way better than the Renault K9K and Ford TDCi diesels in the category. And no - there is no significant decrease in noise levels. However - the difference is in the ease with which the engine revvs up the powerband. While the stock engine used to sound strained and very hesitant to do so, RD box'ed one, specially in P2 mode - will just pull and pull.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
I guess they (RD) refer to improvement in peak power and off-peak power when they give approximate values with the box. The T-Jet being a turbo petrol has a larger pleasure zone and better revving capability. That said, I still feel the pulling power in P2 feels very close to a turbo petrol, and power does not taper off as easily as in normal (non-boxed) diesels as you accelerate through the rev range.
Some more info from my chat today with Chetan from RD.

1. They plan to dyno the box (On their test Linea) soon, sometimes as soon as this weekend itself.

2. They still don't believe in going by the numbers - as much as the driving experience it offers. Box is capable of giving upto 50% gain in certain cars - but they dont wish to go down that road - with respect to driveability, reliability etc.

3. Same above reason why the cars are tuned on the road, and not on a dyno.

4. Adaptive algorithms work on both P1 and P2 modes. Infact, consider P2 mode as more of a higher threshold of P1. The box can adapt itself even to city driving styles while running in P2 mode, but when given the stick - it can use the full potential of P2. Should explain why my car was behaving much better (not to mention faster!) after the t-bhp meet last week.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 10th April 2013 at 03:29.
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Old 10th April 2013, 07:53   #40
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Default re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
I'm facing some other issues with the car,
What happened?

I have another question. Why a trick box when you can get the real ECU job done by Tune O Tronics? Personally; I feel this is a much better way to get better results.

I don't care too much about claimed numbers. That stands as a reference point only. It is how those numbers are sent to the wheels. Some cars truly stand by those numbers (Palio 1.6, Ikon, T Jet, Rapid, City), some don't (Ford Fiesta, Polo 1.6). At the end, how much of a "felt" difference on the road is what matters when you get a tuning job done. Cost needs to be justified as well.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 10th April 2013 at 07:55. Reason: Quoted text from thread starter.
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Old 10th April 2013, 08:04   #41
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Default re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
What happened?
Nothing related to the box or engine. He was feeling the A/c wasn't as effective as before since the past couple of months, so he wanted to pay Prerana (now Vecto) a visit to get the A/C looked at. Since they might open the bonnet and see the tuning box when working on the A/C issue, he thought its better to disconnect the box before the service visit

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Old 7th June 2013, 23:10   #42
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Default re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
First of all - some bad news.

I'm facing some other issues with the car, and have removed the box temporarily for the sake of warranty. (Even though the box has nothing to do with the issue - dont want them to make prepare lame excuses around it!).

Back to stock - for atleast a week or may be even 2-3!
Odo reads 38300 now. After almost 2 months and 6000+ kms of stock experience, the blue box is back under the hood. Its like experiencing the whole thing all over once again.

Car is running on Shell diesel now, and I found a huge improvement in refinement with the stock settings. I think RD box may be better tuned for our ordinary diesel. Will comment more after few thousand kilometers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
And in other news - I couldn't remove the box by myself, and had to go back to the RD office for it. My batterred ego recovered a bit when i saw them taking 15 mins to get it out. Lesson learned: Its removable before service alright, but the ease with which it can be removed depends on the car. Cruze is ultra easy, while Punto 90HP is a bit difficult due to the location of the connectors. I've heard its much harder on ford vehicles too.
So, went to the RD facility once again to get the box fitted back. This time though - I noticed one major mistake I had being doing while trying to disconnect the terminals. I guess it should be a DIY plug and play setup from now onwards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
What happened?
Had to claim warranty for the a/c compressor. Although there is no relation between the two parts - didn't want anyone to come up with the lame excuse - 'Car has been modified, sir'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
I have another question. Why a trick box when you can get the real ECU job done by Tune O Tronics? Personally; I feel this is a much better way to get better results.
Personally - i feel the same way as well. No doubts - remap is an even better option compared to the dual channel box.

However, my yearly usage is around 30,000 kms per year - and I guess it might go even higher. I'm planning to retain the car for as long as possible, hence didn't want to risk the warranty at a very early stage in its life. Let it be under warranty coverage for atleast 4 years and 1.2L kms (1.5L is the extended warranty from FIAT).

That said - we will be visiting Tune O Tronics later this year for getting 2 or 3 FIATs remapped (I guess you already know the owners. ). Will be doing comparisons between the box and the remap - and if its outright impressive - who knows - I might jump in too!
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Old 8th June 2013, 11:56   #43
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Default re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
That said - we will be visiting Tune O Tronics later this year for getting 2 or 3 FIATs remapped (I guess you already know the owners. ). Will be doing comparisons between the box and the remap - and if its outright impressive - who knows - I might jump in too!
Please keep us in the loop when you're all visiting tune-o-tronics. Thanks!
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Old 27th June 2013, 22:44   #44
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Default re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

There is a new top speed (speedo indicated) record for the P2 mode - which I consider pretty impressive for a 1.3L diesel hatch. I wont be sharing the figures in the thread and hence anyone interested can drop a PM.

Starting with the mileage updates -

#1.
Date: 21/06/2013.
Odo reading: 39850 kms.
Volume Price: 54.5 INR/l.
Total Costs: Rs 1661/-
Total Volume: 30.477.

#2.
Date: 23/06/2013.
Odo reading: 40538 kms. (+688 kms)
Volume Price: 53.1 INR/l.
Total Costs: Rs 1700/-
Total Volume: 32.02 L.
RD Mode: P1. Highway usage with speeds averaging 80 - 90 km/h.
FE: 21.49 km/l.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nareshov View Post
Please keep us in the loop when you're all visiting tune-o-tronics. Thanks!
Sure.

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Old 28th June 2013, 15:15   #45
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Default re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
There is a new top speed (speedo indicated) record for the P2 mode - which I consider pretty impressive for a 1.3L diesel hatch. I wont be sharing the figures in the thread and hence anyone interested can drop a PM.
Hi CrAzY dRiVeR, good that there is an improvement in top speed with box on.
By the way, I'm getting my Race chip delivered next week for my Figo. Can you recommend any place in chennai, where I can get them fixed.
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