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Old 11th February 2014, 22:37   #61
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Originally Posted by jdr View Post
I bought the dual channel box for my 6-speed crdi i20 TODAY!
Cool. Welcome to the club. Very nice review. However, from my personal experience- would request you to give some time for the ECU to learn before writing off the P1 mode. It is a very good all rounder mode- you can just leave it on and forget it. I use the P2 mode occasionally only just for the thrill!
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Old 12th February 2014, 09:40   #62
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Default Re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

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Originally Posted by jdr View Post
I bought the dual channel box for my 6-speed crdi i20 TODAY! This is my story:

Hereís the gist if you donít want the full review:
0. Big thanks to Sushil Chavan and the rest of the Race Dynamics Team for help with installation and for making this wonderful product!
1. The dual channel box cost INR 23,000/- (Pune, Car Cupid, demo by Sushil Chavan from Race Dynamics)
2. The turbo boost sensor is placed under the air intake and is inconvenient to switch out
3. Engine noise changes (very slightly) in E and P1 modes (didnít notice change in P2)
4. P2 mode power-increase is as noticeable as power-drop in E mode
5. At least today, I donít regret buying this box

Congrats mate and welcome to the club. One suggestion. Keep the mode in P1 and run for some 50-100 kms. Let the ECU learn your driving habits. Later when you change modes you will be able to observe the difference.
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Old 12th February 2014, 12:26   #63
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Default Re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Cool. Welcome to the club. Very nice review. However, from my personal experience- would request you to give some time for the ECU to learn before writing off the P1 mode. It is a very good all rounder mode- you can just leave it on and forget it. I use the P2 mode occasionally only just for the thrill!
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Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
Congrats mate and welcome to the club. One suggestion. Keep the mode in P1 and run for some 50-100 kms. Let the ECU learn your driving habits. Later when you change modes you will be able to observe the difference.
Thanks for the advice. I am aware that the box can learn (ADSL(TM) and all that.) and I am currently in P1 mode, and will be for a while. I wasn't trying to write off P1 mode entirely, I just observed that the change in response is not as noticeable as the other modes. That said, when taking off from a stop, the slight power increase in P1 mode as compared to stock is duly noted (as mentioned in the full review).

By the way, has anyone else tried this on their i20?

Regards,
jdr
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Old 12th February 2014, 23:05   #64
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Smile Re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

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Originally Posted by jdr View Post
Thanks for the advice. I am aware that the box can learn (ADSL(TM) and all that.) and I am currently in P1 mode, and will be for a while. I wasn't trying to write off P1 mode entirely, I just observed that the change in response is not as noticeable as the other modes. That said, when taking off from a stop, the slight power increase in P1 mode as compared to stock is duly noted (as mentioned in the full review).

By the way, has anyone else tried this on their i20?

Regards,
jdr
Congrats on the box n welcome to the club! I have installed this on my new crdi and my experience is similar to yours. Had to hunt around for the turbo connector which I found thanks to a picture posted by sagarpadaki. I installed mine after the engine had run about 5000kms. My take on the box is as follows (All mileage figures are in Chennai city driving tankful to tankful):
1. In P1 mode i got a slight increase in mileage to 14.5 from 13.8 without box. The engine is smooth in this mode and pulls quite better than stock. I think this is a good everyday mode.
2. In P2 mode the i20 gallops like a horse on the highway and driveability in city is noticeably improved than even P1. But this seems to come at the cost of increased clatter while accelerating. Also mileage dropped to about 13.5 which is almost same as stock. It can eat most of the other diesel hatches for breakfast, lunch, dinner and then some! Keep the engine on the boil on the highway and you will be rewarded with some stellar performance. I have personally seen other eyeballs pop
3. E mode shows a real drop in power. I have the same problem that you described. If I switch to E mode from P2 while accelerating the engine cuts out. The first time it happened I coasted to the side thinking the box went kaput. But the engine fired on the first try. The only way around this is to not change to E mode while accelerating. I am yet to complete a full tank in this mode so cannot comment on the mileage. But I notice something strange. The OBD2 sensor readings with Torque Pro app show increased fuel rail pressure and increased fuel flow rate(1.5l per hr vs 1.4l per hr in other modes at idle) in E mode when it should have been the other way round. Also I see boost pressure is same at about 17psi max in all modes including stock. So I do not really understand how the dual channel is different from the usual box.
Anyone have inputs or tried the same?
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Old 13th February 2014, 11:08   #65
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Default Re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

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Originally Posted by alphahere View Post
All mileage figures are in Chennai city driving tankful to tankful
It's too soon for me to do mileage runs. Once this half tank runs out, I'll start the mileage runs for each mode (4 tanks full or testing == ~2800km == long time)

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphahere View Post
1. In P1 mode i got a slight increase in mileage to 14.5 from 13.8 without box. The engine is smooth in this mode and pulls quite better than stock. I think this is a good everyday mode.
I'm still not sure about P1 mode. Been driving it for about 45km, so it is too early to say anything conclusively, but I noticed that even in the right gear, when I suddenly accelerate (for overtaking, mostly), there's a dip in power and then a sudden rise. I don't know what's causing it -- never noticed it before the box. Maybe it'll smoothen out once the box learns or something.

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2. In P2 mode the i20 gallops like a horse on the highway and driveability in city is noticeably improved than even P1. But this seems to come at the cost of increased clatter while accelerating.
Yes, there's increased clatter. I guess that's the price of increased power.

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Originally Posted by alphahere View Post
3. E mode shows a real drop in power.
The power drop in E is a bit strange. In the turbo zone, the car can still pull quite decently, which means, on the highway, if you don't floor it, it'll still manage to smoothly pick up speed (although, nothing like in any other mode). That said, I noticed insane amount of clatter, which, I presume is the noise of the engine trying to pick up speed without the turbo. I don't like this sound. I hope there's no problem with my car (been hearing this even before RD box).

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Originally Posted by alphahere View Post
But I notice something strange. The OBD2 sensor readings with Torque Pro app show increased fuel rail pressure and increased fuel flow rate(1.5l per hr vs 1.4l per hr in other modes at idle) in E mode when it should have been the other way round. Also I see boost pressure is same at about 17psi max in all modes including stock. So I do not really understand how the dual channel is different from the usual box.
Anyone have inputs or tried the same?
You have an OBD? GScan? Your own or borrowed? How much did it cost? Where can I get it?
Also, is it possible to connect a normal laptop running windows with the required app on it to the car and check this stuff?

Regards,
jdr
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Old 13th February 2014, 13:20   #66
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Default Re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Cool. Welcome to the club. Very nice review. However, from my personal experience- would request you to give some time for the ECU to learn before writing off the P1 mode. It is a very good all rounder mode- you can just leave it on and forget it. I use the P2 mode occasionally only just for the thrill!

+1. After 60K with the box, I love the P1 mode the most. Its best of both worlds and the best for city driving.

P2 I normally engange on the highway feels better and accelerates faster but loose atleast 1kmpl on average.
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Old 13th February 2014, 16:40   #67
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Default Re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

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Originally Posted by jdr View Post
It's too soon for me to do mileage runs. Once this half tank runs out, I'll start the mileage runs for each mode (4 tanks full or testing == ~2800km == long time)



I'm still not sure about P1 mode. Been driving it for about 45km, so it is too early to say anything conclusively, but I noticed that even in the right gear, when I suddenly accelerate (for overtaking, mostly), there's a dip in power and then a sudden rise. I don't know what's causing it -- never noticed it before the box. Maybe it'll smoothen out once the box learns or something.



Yes, there's increased clatter. I guess that's the price of increased power.



The power drop in E is a bit strange. In the turbo zone, the car can still pull quite decently, which means, on the highway, if you don't floor it, it'll still manage to smoothly pick up speed (although, nothing like in any other mode). That said, I noticed insane amount of clatter, which, I presume is the noise of the engine trying to pick up speed without the turbo. I don't like this sound. I hope there's no problem with my car (been hearing this even before RD box).



You have an OBD? GScan? Your own or borrowed? How much did it cost? Where can I get it?
Also, is it possible to connect a normal laptop running windows with the required app on it to the car and check this stuff?

Regards,
jdr
Maybe I can help you out a bit with my expericence in this car.
1. You say you have a slight dip in power when you accelerate suddenly and then a rise. This is there even without the box and it is only present during the first few minutes of cold start. Once the engine reaches operating temperature in about 5 mins this issue vanishes. Till then it helps to go easy on the throttle so as to not bring up this issue. It could also be a filter clog problem as I had never noticed this when the car was new. Waiting for the second service to see if an oil and filter change will do any good. Anyway it is not too bothersome. It does pull back up after that flat spot.
2. I am concerned about that insane clatter that you speak about. As far as my experience with CRDi goes it is one of the most silent and refined engines I have used. None of the modes in RD Box other than P2 makes it clatter in my car. I feel it can be a location issue also. I once travelled to Bangalore with my car and I noticed increased clatter when I was there. That was before I installed the box. When I returned from Bangalore all was fine again. It seems to be either the cooler temperature or something to do with the altitude that causes this. If possible do try to drive to a different location with different climate and see if this helps. It could just be that the ECU might take some running hours to adapt to a new location. I do not know.
3. About the OBD Scan I bought an ELM327 bluetooth adapter off ebay.in for around 1000 bucks. It works pretty well. As per the seller it is compatible with android phones and laptops with bluetooth. I keep it plugged in all the time so that my phone can calculate the distance to empty. Incidentally, according to readings from the OBD, i20 does not have a fuel level sensor connected to the ECU. Its no wonder we dont get a DTE display from the factory!
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Old 13th February 2014, 20:29   #68
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Default Re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

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Originally Posted by alphahere View Post
1. You say you have a slight dip in power when you accelerate suddenly and then a rise. This is there even without the box and it is only present during the first few minutes of cold start. Once the engine reaches operating temperature in about 5 mins this issue vanishes. Till then it helps to go easy on the throttle so as to not bring up this issue. It could also be a filter clog problem as I had never noticed this when the car was new. Waiting for the second service to see if an oil and filter change will do any good. Anyway it is not too bothersome. It does pull back up after that flat spot.
Umm... My car is brand new... only done 1800kms: i.e. new filter, no clogs, new oil, no gunk.

(Slightly off topic, speaking of oil, do you know which oil is being used in the i20: synthetic or not, grade, brand? Because I cannot find this information clearly mentioned in the manual, and naturally, the HASS SE was unable to say)

Also, the dip and rise happen even after the engine reaches operating temperature. I have noticed this only in P1 mode (haven't tried other modes enough to talk about those), and never before on stock mode (i.e. without the RD box). I will experiment more with this and update you. In stock mode, there was no dip; but there was nothing else. Once the turbo kicked in, I got kicked, till then... maddeningly slow.

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2. I am concerned about that insane clatter that you speak about. As far as my experience with CRDi goes it is one of the most silent and refined engines I have used. None of the modes in RD Box other than P2 makes it clatter in my car. I feel it can be a location issue also. I once travelled to Bangalore with my car and I noticed increased clatter when I was there. That was before I installed the box. When I returned from Bangalore all was fine again. It seems to be either the cooler temperature or something to do with the altitude that causes this. If possible do try to drive to a different location with different climate and see if this helps. It could just be that the ECU might take some running hours to adapt to a new location. I do not know.
I don't know about the location thing. I've taken the car to Mumbai and Lavasa, and will take it to Mahableshwar soon, so they're not that far away from Pune to make much of a difference. Besides, considering that the clatter was present even before the box, I am sure I need to get it checked from a better mechanic than found in the HASS (the SE there said this was a normal noise, but I trust the HASS SE's as much as I would a thief.)

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Originally Posted by alphahere View Post
3. About the OBD Scan I bought an ELM327 bluetooth adapter off ebay.in for around 1000 bucks. It works pretty well. As per the seller it is compatible with android phones and laptops with bluetooth. I keep it plugged in all the time so that my phone can calculate the distance to empty. Incidentally, according to readings from the OBD, i20 does not have a fuel level sensor connected to the ECU. Its no wonder we dont get a DTE display from the factory!
I will look into the bluetooth adapter if it's that cheap. If i20 doesn't have a fuel level sensor connected to ECU how does your OBD calculate DTE and FE?

Regards,
jdr
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Old 14th February 2014, 08:23   #69
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Default Re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

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Besides, considering that the clatter was present even before the box, I am sure I need to get it checked from a better mechanic than found in the HASS (the SE there said this was a normal noise, but I trust the HASS SE's as much as I would a thief.)
Seems to be an issue if it makes so much of a noise. Totally agree with you on the SE part. For them everything will be "Naarmal Saar!". It might help if you try to TD another vehicle to confirm there really is a problem before you let them fiddle with your brand new car. I would suggest you get the OBD adapter. I can share my logs to check if some figures are not matching.

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(Slightly off topic, speaking of oil, do you know which oil is being used in the i20: synthetic or not, grade, brand? Because I cannot find this information clearly mentioned in the manual, and naturally, the HASS SE was unable to say)
I believe i20 uses normal mineral oil from the factory. Synthetic for diesels is hard to come by at least here in Chennai. Mobil1 0w40 with API CF4 rating is usually used for petrol vehicles. The diesel Mobil Delvac1 5w40 with API CI4 rating was not to be found anywhere though I tried. So I am deciding to stick with mineral oil for the time being. In mineral oils almost all the diesels use the same grade. I preferred Castrol GTX Diesel over Mobil in my earlier car (Vista QJD) because it felt way smoother. VW, Skoda and some Fiats use synthetics from factory though I am not sure about their ratings or brand.

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I will look into the bluetooth adapter if it's that cheap. If i20 doesn't have a fuel level sensor connected to ECU how does your OBD calculate DTE and FE?
You can manually set your fuel tank capacity to about 50 litres(the auto cut off at the bunk cuts in at about 45 litres but you can fill in an extra 5 litres till the brim) and fuel level to 100% in the app when you top up the tank. The sensors can read the fuel flow rate in litre/hour and cc/sec. This will give a good approximation of the DTE and FE. The only problem is you will have to keep the phone in the car with the Bluetooth switched on whenever the engine is running else it will miss the correct figure of fuel consumed.
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Old 18th February 2014, 11:09   #70
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Default Re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

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3. About the OBD Scan I bought an ELM327 bluetooth adapter off ebay.in for around 1000 bucks. It works pretty well.
My ELM327 should arrive today from ebay. cost me 1140/- (actually cost me 5.05/- using Payback points).
I was looking around in my car yesterday and I couldn't find the OBD port. Forums mentioned its location with the fuse box under the steering, so I checked my car and it seems there's a panel there with a screw holding it down.

Do I need to unscrew the panel under the steering open? How did you you install it?

Once the OBD is in, can I keep it in? Another forum mentioned that the device consumes battery even if engine is switched off.

Thanks,
-jdr
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Old 18th February 2014, 22:47   #71
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Default Re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

If you look next to the steering column, there is a marking with FUSE written. You can pull open this lid left side first and then right side. It is hinged from the bottom and opens down. The OBD port is located towards the lower end of the fuse console. You have to take care the retainer clips do not break while pulling open the lid. It can be a bit tight.
I leave my adapter plugged in always. It looks like some pin of the port is powered perpetually because the red LED on the adapter lights up the moment you plug it in even if the ignition is off. But I guess this power drain is really negligible and not enough to run down your battery soon. I have left the car for 3 days without starting and nothing bad happened.
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Old 19th February 2014, 13:20   #72
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Default Re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

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Originally Posted by alphahere View Post
If you look next to the steering column, there is a marking with FUSE written. You can pull open this lid left side first and then right side. It is hinged from the bottom and opens down. The OBD port is located towards the lower end of the fuse console. You have to take care the retainer clips do not break while pulling open the lid. It can be a bit tight.
I leave my adapter plugged in always. It looks like some pin of the port is powered perpetually because the red LED on the adapter lights up the moment you plug it in even if the ignition is off. But I guess this power drain is really negligible and not enough to run down your battery soon. I have left the car for 3 days without starting and nothing bad happened.
Thanks mate. I saw some images somewhere (the panel was opened to change some fuse) and figured out I was trying to open the wrong panel but I finally managed to pry it open and fit the OBD in. The device is fantastic for its price, and it came with the Torque Pro app, so I am able to check the HP/torque etc which is really cool. The only problem is there's no open roads to properly test it on.
About the battery consumption and stuff, I have not yet left the device in, but what I did was I removed the panel off its hinges. I just connect the device when testing it and remove it when done.
I'm thinking maybe I can get or make a extension device that I can snap-fit into the switch panel where the headlight-beam-adjustment control is. That way, the panel won't need to be opened to insert/remove the device!
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Old 19th February 2014, 17:43   #73
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Default Re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphahere View Post
I am concerned about that insane clatter that you speak about. As far as my experience with CRDi goes it is one of the most silent and refined engines I have used. None of the modes in RD Box other than P2 makes it clatter in my car. I feel it can be a location issue also. I once travelled to Bangalore with my car and I noticed increased clatter when I was there. That was before I installed the box. When I returned from Bangalore all was fine again. It seems to be either the cooler temperature or something to do with the altitude that causes this. If possible do try to drive to a different location with different climate and see if this helps. It could just be that the ECU might take some running hours to adapt to a new location. I do not know.
Diesel's do clatter at lower temperatures.I am right now in Germany and drive an Opel Astra TD sports tourer given by my company.At lower temperatures (5 degrees and below) the car sounds like a tractor where as at 10 degrees above zero there's no sound at all.Even the more powerful cars like the Audi's and Beemers sound horrible,let alone even the quieter MJD's sound horrible

Last edited by rakesh_r : 19th February 2014 at 17:48.
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Old 21st February 2014, 12:59   #74
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Default Re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

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The device is fantastic for its price, and it came with the Torque Pro app, so I am able to check the HP/torque etc which is really cool
So, this is slightly sorry about that (maybe there's a more appropriate thread for this, mods?), but...
2 days in, the OBD has stopped working... it keeps disconnecting (bluetooth) from TORQUE app. If I unpair the device and pair it again, it works for some time then disconnects again.

Is this a problem with the OBD or am I doing something wrong? And ideas? Advise? How hard it is to get a replacement (bought off ebay)?

Regards,
-jdr

Last edited by jdr : 21st February 2014 at 13:00. Reason: slightly off topic
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Old 23rd February 2014, 15:00   #75
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Default Re: Fiat Punto with RaceDynamics DieselTronic Dual Channel. EDIT: 110 hp, 265 Nm

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Originally Posted by jdr View Post
So, this is slightly sorry about that (maybe there's a more appropriate thread for this, mods?), but...
2 days in, the OBD has stopped working... it keeps disconnecting (bluetooth) from TORQUE app. If I unpair the device and pair it again, it works for some time then disconnects again.

Is this a problem with the OBD or am I doing something wrong? And ideas? Advise? How hard it is to get a replacement (bought off ebay)?

Regards,
-jdr
This could be a problem with either the app or the phone hardware (if its not a problem with the OBD adapter itself). I believe you have used the app that comes off the cd. I have used the app that I bought off Play Store. And hope you have bought an adapter that looks like this. There are clones that do not really work. Note the placement of the label. In the adapters that work the label would be in a direction that you can read when plugged in, not the other way round. Its not too hard to get a replacement off ebay. You just have to dispute your purchase with valid reasons if you have not already given a positive feedback to the seller. But I would suggest a troubleshoot of your phone and software to confirm it really is a problem with the adapter before you ask for a replacement. Try out with the free version of the app first and also another phone if possible.
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