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Old 20th September 2013, 11:40   #16
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Default Re: Maruti Esteem: Electric Vehicle Conversion Project

This is a nice project. I thought of importing one of the ev kits and installing it on one of the Indian cars (Padmini or Ambi).

I was going to buy a kit from these guys. (website below)

With the Kind of low end torque, the EV converted cars can be driven as automatic by using any one of the gears.

For more visit this www.e-volks.com . I found it to be too expensive but I guess these DC motors (specification) can be bought in India too. Rest of the things like controllers etc have to be sourced or designed.
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Old 20th September 2013, 14:10   #17
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Originally Posted by bhp4putuval View Post
Nice to see this thread!

It seems a very long time since I had left engineering college. But these posts reminds us of the time spent at the workshops. But then this is an entirely different area. You are developing an idea.

Please pardon if the question is inappropriate or silly. Are you transforming your esteem to an electric car just for the sake of using it as an electric car? Or are you trying to develop an engine that could be a technology/patent for the next generation? If it is the later one, what different is it from Mahindra's concept of e2O?

Anyways, all the best for your endeavour!
Hello,

Thanks first of all and yes I am working on a concept. This is my 7th EV build and I hope to test my proto and go into production later. Imagine 300km in one charge and with the feel of a 1200cc equivalent car.

It's different from e2o in the following way.

E2o uses a 20 kw motor and the car weighs I guess approx 600 - 700kg. Does a top speed of 80 and a max range of 80km with a battery pack same as mine.

With the same battery pack, my 1000kg vehicle with 4 passengers does 150 Kms at 130kmph.

I guess that's the difference
I have also built in a Kinetic energy regeneration system to maximize efficiency on sudden high braking where the standard regen doesn't do any good.

Cheers

Last edited by stuntfreak : 20th September 2013 at 14:14.
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Old 20th September 2013, 15:03   #18
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Default Re: Maruti Esteem: Electric Vehicle Conversion Project

Pretty amazing effort there. StuntFreak

Am just curious as to where you dynoed your car in Pune?
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Old 20th September 2013, 15:33   #19
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Originally Posted by Eminenttismo View Post
Finally justice to the tag "Electrons" in your brand name. He he . Nice work, keep it coming!


Thanks mate.

Some more updates.

Also mounted the AC Compressor. Need a better vacuum pump for the brakes

Bracket for the thin battery pack is ready. The batteries on it at the moment are temporary for testing. Pls ignore.

Cheers.
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Old 20th September 2013, 15:44   #20
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Originally Posted by JayKis View Post
Pretty amazing effort there. StuntFreak

Am just curious as to where you dynoed your car in Pune?
Hi bro

Thanks

Got some friends in ARAI.

Building the "control panel"

Cheers
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Old 22nd September 2013, 09:36   #21
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Default Re: Maruti Esteem: Electric Vehicle Conversion Project

I had to go back to the first post to understand how you were managing to better both economy and performance so substantially

If I understand correctly, you are looking at having the electric motor transfer power through the equivalent of a CVT gearbox (rather than a direct drive as in the E2O). Is that correct?


Quote:
Originally Posted by stuntfreak View Post
Hello,
This is my 7th EV build and I hope to test my proto and go into production later. Imagine 300km in one charge and with the feel of a 1200cc equivalent car.
Cheers
Sounds almost to good too be true. Where does one sign up to be a beta tester

Last edited by adisag : 22nd September 2013 at 09:40.
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Old 22nd September 2013, 10:21   #22
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Hello mate,

The transmission works similar to a CVT but combines kinetic energy regeneration.
The patent is published. Once granted, I'll reveal it here.

You can come down anytime to the factory. It's in Pune. Let me know.

Take care and drive safe.



Quote:
Originally Posted by adisag View Post
I had to go back to the first post to understand how you were managing to better both economy and performance so substantially

If I understand correctly, you are looking at having the electric motor transfer power through the equivalent of a CVT gearbox (rather than a direct drive as in the E2O). Is that correct?

Sounds almost to good too be true. Where does one sign up to be a beta tester

Last edited by stuntfreak : 22nd September 2013 at 10:23.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 15:05   #23
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Default Re: Maruti Esteem: Electric Vehicle Conversion Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by stuntfreak View Post
Hello Guys! I've taken a Motor from a Fork lift (8.5 KW) to build an Electric Vehicle

Will be back with updates very very very soon!!!
In the mean while, if anybody wants to add some inputs, kindly do.

Thanks!

Hemank
Congos! This is what I always thought to do but never could dare to carry out ofcourse due to lack of knowledge and my bad habit of ruining a DIY.

It would be helpful if you could answer me a few queries:

1) Is the motor DC or AC. I mean if AC how you are converting the it to DC. and if DC then does it work on 48V? Should'nt a higher amperage 12V motor would have been sufficient?

2) How have you planned to charge the batteries?

3) Cannot you link a alternator to the the motor through pulley and then charge the batteries using a custom rectifier unit?

4) I read about E-shift mechanism of yours and would'nt ask about it now as you have applied for a patent. But, is it a motor operated gearbox? Could'nt we use the conventional gearbox of Esteem and shift the gear manually?

5) How much do the batteries cost?

6) Also, what are you using to increase/decrease the motor speed?

Thanks.

Last edited by mercedised : 23rd September 2013 at 15:08.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 15:50   #24
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Default Re: Maruti Esteem: Electric Vehicle Conversion Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by shivs2003 View Post
I'm currently in my 3rd year. Mech engg.

I'm planning a EV with a motor at each wheel (4WD). Im facing the following problem:

1. how to link the front 2 motors to a gear box and the same for the rear.

2. how to link the front and rear motors to a single gear shift!

any ideas???
The design you are planning with the motors mounted at each wheel doesn't need a gearbox. This design is similar to the use of a hub motor in electric bicycles, and can been seen in some concept 'urban' vehicles. The setup is referred to an individual wheel drive (IWD). A 4-wheel drive in the conventional sense is driven from a single motor or engine and hooked up to a gearbox.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 16:08   #25
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Default Re: Maruti Esteem: Electric Vehicle Conversion Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by k_nitin_r View Post
The design you are planning with the motors mounted at each wheel doesn't need a gearbox. This design is similar to the use of a hub motor in electric bicycles, and can been seen in some concept 'urban' vehicles. The setup is referred to an individual wheel drive (IWD). A 4-wheel drive in the conventional sense is driven from a single motor or engine and hooked up to a gearbox.
But these motors have built in planetary set gearboxes and is an expensive affair which this person isnt ready to spend on


Quote:
Originally Posted by mercedised View Post
Congos! This is what I always thought to do but never could dare to carry out ofcourse due to lack of knowledge and my bad habit of ruining a DIY.

It would be helpful if you could answer me a few queries:

1) Is the motor DC or AC. I mean if AC how you are converting the it to DC. and if DC then does it work on 48V? Should'nt a higher amperage 12V motor would have been sufficient?

2) How have you planned to charge the batteries?

3) Cannot you link a alternator to the the motor through pulley and then charge the batteries using a custom rectifier unit?

4) I read about E-shift mechanism of yours and would'nt ask about it now as you have applied for a patent. But, is it a motor operated gearbox? Could'nt we use the conventional gearbox of Esteem and shift the gear manually?

5) How much do the batteries cost?

6) Also, what are you using to increase/decrease the motor speed?

Thanks.
1. I'm using a DC Sepex motor, also slightly modified to my requirement.
The Setup I'm using is a 48V 200Ah. If I use a 12V, I'll have to use 800 Ah for the same output! Which is scary. Also Motor speed is directly proportional to the Voltage. So I'll be dropping my existing motor's speed down to 1/4th. So no, I'm going ahead with a 48V setup.

2. I'm using the battery management system from the old Reva. It's doing pretty good.

3. I hate this point. It's against the laws of physics to drive the driven! How can you charge the batteries with the ones that you are trying to drive the motor with in the first place. Get you facts right. This is simply being in a loop with actual losses resulting in just heat. No output.

The Alternator charging the battery needs Energy. The Energy required by the alternator to charge the battery is taken from the motor which is powered by the battery. See the Loop? Then how do you drive ahead?

4. Patent has been published. (Apply - Publish - Examination - Grant) Mine is under Examination at the moment. Indian Patent office is terribly slow.

Yes you can use a standard gearbox along with the motor and introduce:
A. mechanical losses
B. Weight
Would you want to do that?

Mine takes care of wasted kinetic energy for regeneration. Lets see what happens.

5. Batteries if opted for deep cycle discharge Lead Acid cost approx 75,000 for a set forming 48V 200 Ah.
Lithium ion depends on the brand. But the cheapest I have found costs 2.6L for a set adding upto 48V 200 Ah.
You can opt for Nickel Metal Hydride ones provided you can take care of the 'memory effect'.
Lithium polymer ones of the same config go upto 3.5 L with a BMS.

6. Motor Speed is controlled using a Curtis Controller.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 16:27   #26
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Default Re: Maruti Esteem: Electric Vehicle Conversion Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by stuntfreak View Post
The Alternator charging the battery needs Energy. The Energy required by the alternator to charge the battery is taken from the motor which is powered by the battery. See the Loop? Then how do you drive ahead?
I cannot understand why it is not possible? I don't know but does'nt the AC in the Electric vehicles is also driven by a motor? If a motor is able to drive a compressor so it can an Alternator.

What I am trying to say is:

Battery>>>>>>Motor>>>>>>> Driving Wheels and Alternator>>>> Alternator produces AC>>> AC goes to>>>>Intelligent Rectifier Unit>>>>>>DC>>>>>Battery Charging.

Why is this not possible? Alternator will put the load on the motor but it should'nt definitely not be more than the power used to drive the vehicle.

Yes, there will be losses but you are also gaining battery charge for them.

Last edited by mercedised : 23rd September 2013 at 16:31.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 16:45   #27
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Originally Posted by mercedised View Post

I cannot understand why it is not possible? I don't know but does'nt the AC in the Electric vehicles is also driven by a motor? If a motor is able to drive a compressor so it can an Alternator.

What I am trying to say is:

Battery>>>>>>Motor>>>>>>> Driving Wheels and Alternator>>>> Alternator produces AC>>> AC goes to>>>>Intelligent Rectifier Unit>>>>>>DC>>>>>Battery Charging.

Why is this not possible? Alternator will put the load on the motor but it should'nt definitely not be more than the power used to drive the vehicle.

Yes, there will be losses but you are also gaining battery charge for them.
No it's not possible.

The alternator needs energy to run and charge. Say the battery provides 'x' energy to the motor.
The motor has 5% loss. So the motor delivers x-5% to the alternator. The alternator then has 5% loss. The alternator delivers x-10% to the rectifier. The rectifier has 5% loss. The battery eventually gets x-15% when it sends in x amount of energy. Where's the logic in that?

Regardless of you driving the wheels or not, the energy req by the alternator will be the same and will flow in the above mentioned manner and form nothing but heat.

Do some reading. And some experiments.
Newtons 3rd law of motion. Energy cannot be produced (created). It can simply be transformed from one form to another.

Do some experimenting your self. You'll realize.

Cheers.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 17:08   #28
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Default Re: Maruti Esteem: Electric Vehicle Conversion Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by stuntfreak View Post

Do some reading. And some experiments.
Newtons 3rd law of motion. Energy cannot be produced (created). It can simply be transformed from one form to another.

Do some experimenting your self. You'll realize.

Cheers.
Great work Stuntfreak. Keep it going, sorry to be pedantic but its not the Newton's 3rd law of motion but its law of conservation of energy.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 20:00   #29
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Default Re: Maruti Esteem: Electric Vehicle Conversion Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by shivs2003 View Post
I'm planning a EV with a motor at each wheel
In the interest of cost, you can use a motor to drive a single wheel on the rear through a gearbox - that way, you don't need a differential. On the front, you can have 2 wheels for steering.

BTW, does the RTO approve EV conversion projects? For engine swaps, they require the new engine to have the same displacement and fuel type as the old one - an electric motor involves a removal of the old engine block and that seems like something the RTO folk could have a problem with.
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Old 24th September 2013, 12:36   #30
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Default Re: Maruti Esteem: Electric Vehicle Conversion Project

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Originally Posted by stuntfreak View Post
No it's not possible.
The alternator needs energy to run and charge. Say the battery provides 'x' energy to the motor.
The motor has 5% loss. So the motor delivers x-5% to the alternator. The alternator then has 5% loss. The alternator delivers x-10% to the rectifier. The rectifier has 5% loss. The battery eventually gets x-15% when it sends in x amount of energy. Where's the logic in that?
Cheers.
Thanks for clarifying.

Could you tell the cost of inverter you used? and the BMS? Any tips on fabricating a adapter plate?

Thanks.
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