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Old 19th December 2013, 16:04   #16
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Default re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Remap would be way better than those piggy back tuning boxes be it single/dual or other channels. Drive back to back remapped & piggy back boxes you would understand the difference.

Tuning boxes are no match to remap. For say DieselTronic which has some 4 modes. Eg. you are in eco mode and now you wish to go pedal to metal mode. First thing take your mind of driving car and change the mode which on the move is as dangerous as talking while driving car.

On the other hand remapped cars are always in sports mode and just press the pedal and you are away.

Many of you all say "Remap cars and your warranty is void". Has anyone of them either remapped their cars? Reason I ask is; leaving VW, Skoda and three big Germans, no other manufacturer workshop even has the slightest idea of OBD and never ever connect VAS machine to read ECU or update it.

E.g. Ford, Ecosport 1.5 TDCi in consideration. I bet Ford ever gonna be updating the ECU or workshop people ever going to connect any OBD port reading machine. Because they never update the ECU or make any changes.

I have a remapped Ford Fiesta 1.4 TDCi and have made quite a few under warranty claims e.g. RTB replacement, steering column and suspension as well, no issues what so ever. Also 20K Kms after remap, no one at the workshop knows that the car is remapped.

Another important point Fords 1.4 TDCi & 1.5 TDCi are very mediocre engines and don't have much technicalities involved. So remap done on them is very much reliable and many cars have been tuned with the very same engines.

Ecosport rules, go ahead and get your car remapped and it would be way better than those tuning boxes(Dangling wires in engine bay). I'm being harsh over here, but its the truth.

Tuners around the world know remap is better than tuning boxes. I have seen people purchasing tuning boxes and then later moving over to remap which has been far better than tuning boxes. I did always suggest a remap eyes closed.

My 2p.
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Old 19th December 2013, 20:14   #17
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Default re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Ecosport rules, i would recommend a remap over tuning box for your 1.5L diesel mill for mainly two reasons

1. There are no dual - channel tuning boxes, which provide a considerable bump in power, for the 1.5L engine . You will have to settle for a single channel one from RD, Petes, Race chip etc etc which might not give a satisfactory bump in power.

2. A remap would offer you a blistering bump in performance in drive-ability since a remap has more control over the parameters than a tuning box any-day. And a remap can be customised according to your needs.

And don't worry about losing your warranty. The FASS guys do not have so much knowledge to detect if the car is running on a remap or factory map unless they retrieve the map from the ECU and observe it.And trust me they don't have brains or time for this.Your warranty will be intact.
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Old 19th December 2013, 20:22   #18
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Default re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

From my experience with RD tuning box on Beat I see only a marginal improvement with torque and power in P2 mode, P1 is not effective. In economy mode you have an increase in mileage by 2km atleast but you do not feel like driving the car for a long duration. So a tuning box will satisfy some of the requirements only but you will still have a missing factor, which you may identify and get it in re-mapping.
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Old 19th December 2013, 21:13   #19
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Default re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

The ONLY Reason you ought to go for a tuning box/chip or a piggyback ecu, is if you are extremely worried about the warranty and expect someone to be plugging in a vehicle diagnostic tool into the OBD port on your car.

A remap is not marginally superior, but far more so. It offers control over all the parameters and thus offers a greater bump in performance (never believe the claimed boosts in power and torque) along with serving up torque at lower rpms to allow improved drive-ability and thus also mileage. Many people including myself, have also noticed that a remap makes the car slightly smoother too.

Sure a remap is more expensive but anyone who can spend on a tuning box can easily spend on a remap

Cheers!
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Old 20th December 2013, 15:04   #20
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Default Re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Sorry if this is OT. But, I didn't want to create a new thread.

Is there any remap/tuning box available for the 1.5 petrol ecosport/fiesta as well?
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Old 20th December 2013, 15:22   #21
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Default Re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Kumar, as you can see there is always 2-sides to a coin.

In this context, you have tuning box owners who are plenty happy (Head over to the dedicated RD thread for tons of folks who are happy with it) and there are many folks who as you see on this thread are happy with remaps too. Therefore, its a very personal choice of which option is a good one for you.

As you may agree, none of us are rolling up our sleeves and getting into dragstrip racing to guage the performances at such finer levels because as basic enthusiastic drivers I would look at reduction in turbo lag and satisfactory surge to power of the car.

Call me risk averse but, it's my personal decision not to fiddle with electronics of my Cruze and hence my decision to use a tuning box. Besides, P2 mode on an already insanely powerful car is simply bliss for me and thought of remapping it never crossed my mind.

Finally, its your car, your money and your call

Choose whatever your mind & heart tells you and let's hit that highway together like we did couple of weeks ago and enjoy your new found love ( performance addition...)
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Old 20th December 2013, 18:32   #22
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Default Re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

I also feel that the tuning boxes are effective alternates for the costlier ECU Re-maps. I am driving a GETZ Crdi with the Racechip for the past 2 years and its absolute fun driving the car.

The installation is pretty simple and DIY. Hardly took 10 minutes and even the service guys are not really bothered seeing the chip.

If you can have somebody coming from Europe , you could ask them to carry one for you. Its only 129 Euros as it is delivered free within Europe and they could hand carry it. Mine costed me about INR 8500 in 2011.

Driving without the box is like

Cheers !!
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Old 20th December 2013, 19:23   #23
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Default Re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
Single channel or Dual channel depends on the ability of the ECU to control the boost and not solely on FGT/VGT turbo setup. I20 CRDi has a FGT but i still have the dual channel setup in my car since the boost is controlled by the ECU
Conversely, having a VGT on the car doesn't guarantee availability of a Dual Channel tuning box. Case in point is the Vento, for which DieselTronics provides only a Single Channel box :(. No idea why.
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Old 20th December 2013, 19:51   #24
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Default Re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
Call me risk averse but, it's my personal decision not to fiddle with electronics of my Cruze and hence my decision to use a tuning box. Besides, P2 mode on an already insanely powerful car is simply bliss for me and thought of remapping it never crossed my mind.
Following dyno report of TDi Racing remapped Cruze 150 PS 1st Gen (224 HP, 552 Nm) may change your thoughts about what can be achieved via remap within safe limits. The following Cruze is doing well after remap. I bet P2 mode can never match it even slightly.

Name:  CRUZE Remap.jpg
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Source:

Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksport View Post
Is there any remap/tuning box available for the 1.5 petrol ecosport/fiesta as well?
There should be one available but the gains would be almost negligible. Reason being 1.5 Petrol motor is a naturally aspirated(NA) whereas on turbo charged motors like TDCi/TDi or EcoBoost gains would in 25%+ both in torque & bhp.

I would suggest you to drop the idea of remapping a NA engine as gains would be negligible and not worth the money.
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Old 21st December 2013, 02:05   #25
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Default Re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

First of all, the regular service guys can never figure out if a car is remapped or not. Actually, they are usually not bothered to plug into the obd and check for a remap unless its a warranty claim for engine components.
Incase you are paranoid you can revert back to the stock map for free from all tuners.

I feel a customized remap which is not too aggressive from a good tuner is almost always better than a tuning box. Tuning Boxes basically just over-fuel the engine, which will generate more power but is also likely to generate more smoke. Now you may feel remaps mess with boost pressures and may damage the turbo in the long run. But a tuning box fooling ECU into over fueling, will naturally result in higher boost as well. Also chances of damaging the DPF with a remap is less than that with a tuning box.

Pros for a tuning box:
Can be easily installed and removed
Cheaper than a professional remap, giving the perception of being ‘better value for money’, at least in the short term

A less aggressive remap suited for our poor fuel quality is the way to go.

Last edited by robimahanta : 21st December 2013 at 02:07.
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Old 21st December 2013, 08:46   #26
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Default Re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by el lobo 6061 View Post
Following dyno report of TDi Racing remapped Cruze 150 PS 1st Gen (224 HP, 552 Nm) may change your thoughts about what can be achieved via remap within safe limits. The following Cruze is doing well after remap. I bet P2 mode can never match it even slightly
This is old news rehashed again

Owner of this golden color Cruze lives a few hundred meters away from my home in Hyderabad though he operates out of Bangy. I met him and also drove his Cruze at a drag event in Hyderabad and no doubt his remap is impressive but, despite that he could just manage a 15.XX sec quarter mile which is shaving off just a second and boy, that car was smoking like a chimney

Though have never done a dyno on my car, 25% bump (I think RD claims 35% at P2 but, I always take a lower figure) is equivalent to roughly 190bhp compared to the 225bhp of TDI Cruze so the power rating difference is substantial. TDI quoted me 60K for a similar remap and there is no way iam going to spend that kind of money for those additional horses and putting my car's electronics at risk as iam not in the business of racing

At the cost of repeating myself, Iam more than happy with a tuning box and have no intention of remapping my car (atleast in near future) !!!
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Old 21st December 2013, 10:51   #27
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Default Re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by el lobo 6061 View Post
Following dyno report of TDi Racing remapped Cruze 150 PS 1st Gen (224 HP, 552 Nm) may change your thoughts about what can be achieved via remap within safe limits. The following Cruze is doing well after remap. I bet P2 mode can never match it even slightly.

Attachment 1180875
Source:


There should be one available but the gains would be almost negligible. Reason being 1.5 Petrol motor is a naturally aspirated(NA) whereas on turbo charged motors like TDCi/TDi or EcoBoost gains would in 25%+ both in torque & bhp.

I would suggest you to drop the idea of remapping a NA engine as gains would be negligible and not worth the money.

Hello,

Since you have gone through the trouble of posting a dyno graph here, we would like to point out the correction factor on the graph(TCF- 1.26) that would show a 26% higher reading than a graph with the standard correction factor: 1 . You are looking at assumed crank horsepower figures rather than wheel horsepower figures. Do keep that in mind

RD

Last edited by Racedynamics : 21st December 2013 at 10:52.
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Old 21st December 2013, 13:55   #28
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Default Re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
This is old news rehashed again

Owner of this golden color Cruze lives a few hundred meters away from my home in Hyderabad though he operates out of Bangy. I met him and also drove his Cruze at a drag event in Hyderabad and no doubt his remap is impressive but, despite that he could just manage a 15.XX sec quarter mile which is shaving off just a second and boy, that car was smoking like a chimney
Yes its an old news. But what amazed me was the figures achieved by him through remap. Also sustaining 500 Nm for a duration over a longer rpm. I was definitely thinking you would have driven his car. Smoking like a chimney, thats surely bad. I too wouldn't want it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
TDI quoted me 60K for a similar remap and there is no way iam going to spend that kind of money for those additional horses and putting my car's electronics at risk as iam not in the business of racing
According to me both TDi Racing & Pete's really overcharge, maybe for whatever reason. E.g. Ford 1.4 TDCi remap Pete's charge a whopping 40K+ whereas I got it for 22K with bill from Kiirus. Even a tuning box, Spider was coming for 17K. Remap from Kiirus was more value for money.

I don't think it would have made any difference if remap would have been done by Pete's for 40K+. My Fiesta now does 70 Kmph in 2nd gear and top speed goes in excess of 170 Kmph which by stock it almost 15 Kmph higher.

Get in touch with Kiirus & Tune-O-Tronics, their remaps are priced competitively and are value for money in comparison to tuning boxes, Petes & TDi Racing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racedynamics View Post
Since you have gone through the trouble of posting a dyno graph here, we would like to point out the correction factor on the graph(TCF- 1.26) that would show a 26% higher reading than a graph with the standard correction factor: 1 . You are looking at assumed crank horsepower figures rather than wheel horsepower figures. Do keep that in mind
Thanks for the information. One small Q, the engine power figures quoted by manufacturers like the car in consideration Cruze 1st gen 150 PS, the power figure is at engine crank and not at wheels? So if they are at engine crank will the above dyno report be compared to stock engine values at crank?
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Old 21st December 2013, 16:38   #29
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Default Re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

I'm not sure about RD boxes, but the Pete's tuning box (which is a rebranded imported PSIMotorsport box) is prohibitively pricey for the Ford TDCi. While the box for almost all other cars (including the luxury segment) costs around 28K, the Ford TDCi box was priced at 40K. In my opinion, a good remap within the safe limit of the engine & components is the way to go since I am made to understand that a remap gives much more flexibility to fine-tune the various parameters of the engine operations rather than a tuning box which alters just a couple of them. Another advantage is that the remap can be customized to your personal driving style and specific needs while most of the tuning box carry a generic map for that car model. I don't think neither a remap nor a tuning box would increase the top speed of a car. What it does is shave off a few seconds to get there as well as improve the drivability of the car.

So in short if you are looking for convenience, contrary to what is being said, I'll suggest a remap since you don't have to worry about installation/uninstallation every time your car goes for servicing. And unless a thorough scan of the ECU is carried out, the A.S.S. will not know that the car has been remapped, and most of the tuners would revert back to the stock map if you ask for the same in case of any engine related warranty claims. The only inconvenience with the remap is if there is a TSB (Technical service bulletin) for that particular car and the service centers are asked to update the firmware of all the cars of that model. This has happened with the Figo for a known issue and all the affected cars were asked to get the Firmware upgraded. I don't know how the rewriting of the tuner map would work in this case. Will they tweak the new factory map, or will they just overwrite it with the old tuner's map, if so won't it beat the purpose of the TSB? The EcoSport, being a new model, has a higher chance of getting such Firmware upgrades.
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Old 21st December 2013, 20:38   #30
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Default Re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Hey guys,
Comments from a professional.
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EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?-screenshot_20131219083152.png  

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