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Old 21st December 2013, 20:43   #31
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Default Re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

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Originally Posted by jayded View Post
The only inconvenience with the remap is if there is a TSB (Technical service bulletin) for that particular car and the service centers are asked to update the firmware of all the cars of that model. This has happened with the Figo for a known issue and all the affected cars were asked to get the Firmware upgraded. I don't know how the rewriting of the tuner map would work in this case. Will they tweak the new factory map, or will they just overwrite it with the old tuner's map, if so won't it beat the purpose of the TSB? The EcoSport, being a new model, has a higher chance of getting such Firmware upgrades.
Very valid point, and this is exactly the reason I've shied away from a re-map this far. The Figo has seen one or two firmware updates to sort out some issues, though mine has not so far been subjected to this, as it is an Aug 2012 manufactured model. And going by this background, we never know if the EcoSport will have such updates. But it is highly unlikely, as the Fiesta 1.4 tdci never had such updates over the past 8 years.

I'd like to know from re-mapped Ford owners if smoke from exhaust is a common phenomenon, like in the case of tuning boxes.
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Old 21st December 2013, 21:40   #32
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Default Re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

I currently run a RD box, but given the chance to go back and choose again, I will select a REMAP.
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Old 22nd December 2013, 01:12   #33
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I'm mighty surprised that even in 2013 we are still discussing whether a remap is better than a tuning box. The following link is a well-balanced take on Remap vs. Tuning Box and is a highly recommended read.

http://www.endtuning.com/dieseltuningboxes.html

Before permanently moving to Remaps, I've had my share of tuning boxes (not ONE but FIVE popular brands in India) and none of then are even a remote match to a good remap. I'm sure that for anyone who have had the opportunity to sample a Tuning Box and a Remap, the inclination to a Remap is just a natural progression since a well-engineered remap is any day better than any tuning box on any count. PERIOD!

Last edited by Rehaan : 27th December 2013 at 18:44. Reason: No commercial talk please.
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Old 22nd December 2013, 10:31   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayded View Post
The only inconvenience with the remap is if there is a TSB (Technical service bulletin) for that particular car and the service centers are asked to update the firmware of all the cars of that model. This has happened with the Figo for a known issue and all the affected cars were asked to get the Firmware upgraded. I don't know how the rewriting of the tuner map would work in this case. Will they tweak the new factory map, or will they just overwrite it with the old tuner's map, if so won't it beat the purpose of the TSB? The EcoSport, being a new model, has a higher chance of getting such Firmware upgrades.
Missed to reply to this post earlier. Sorry! A TSB for ECU FW upgrade from manufacturer is generally issued after much research and consideration and it is a MUST . Remapping against ANY number of TSB-Flashes is a Lifetime-FREE upgrade that we always offered. Forget TSBs, even any improvements that we make in the course of continuous development or just to cater for changed user driving preferences is completely FREE. MYTHBUSTER: Remaps need not be very expensive in comparison - Those days of market monopoly and sky-high remap pricings are long gone and quality remaps are available in India at pretty much affordable prices from multiple vendors. That said, let's not start comparing a remap with $100 eBay boxes ;-).

Last edited by ajmat : 27th December 2013 at 08:51.
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Old 22nd December 2013, 14:55   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecosport rules View Post
Hey guys, Comments from a professional.
Though I wouldn't even dare to question the person's knowledge, the language used seems a bit too dramatic to me. I am sure it's not as bad it is portrayed in that post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Vampire View Post
Missed to reply to this post earlier. Sorry! A TSB for ECU FW upgrade from manufacturer is generally issued after much research and consideration and it is a MUST upgrade. Remapping against ANY number of TSB-Flashes is a Lifetime-FREE upgrade that we always offered. Forget TSBs, even any improvements that we make in the course of continuous development or just to cater for changed user driving preferences is completely FREE. MYTHBUSTER: Remaps need not be very expensive in comparison - Those days of market monopoly and sky-high remap pricings are long gone and quality remaps are available in India at pretty much affordable prices from multiple vendors. That said, let's not start comparing a remap with $100 eBay boxes ;-).
Thanks for the clarification DV. I've read almost all the C6 remapped car threads on GH and do appreciate your efforts and way of working. All the very best. It's a good thing that the tuners nowadays are providing lifetime free updates/tweaks to the maps, which is a very reassuring factor for the customers.

Last edited by ajmat : 27th December 2013 at 08:48.
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Old 22nd December 2013, 17:40   #36
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Default Re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Hi guys, I too have driven many cars with remaps and tuning boxes, and I am still not too sure what I would pick. I think there are too many factors, like the cost, the car I am going to tune, the tuner who is doing it (how much I trust his skills), what power gains I am looking at, and also how the car is driven i.e driven very hard with redlining often or driven normally with short bursts of speed once in a while.

When we talk about the older gen tuning boxes like the ones which only raise rail pressure and increase fueling then I would say a remap is better.

But now there are many more advanced tuning boxes too. When I was looking to tune my 3 series I was going to get a Steinbauer tuning box which had about 3-4 different connections including one which plugged into the throttle cable. So with these I think it depends on price.

I had a tuning box on my Innova for over 80k kms without an issue. Now I've got a remap on the 3 series and on my vRS, and I would have to say that if the car is constantly driven hard I think a remap would make more sense since the tuners can adjust so many more factors to make sure the engine is in its tolerance limit.

Then again some tuning boxes are really good, as I and other people I know have experienced. So yes people will praise both, but I think it just comes down to the comfort factor of doing each depending from person to person.
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Old 23rd December 2013, 14:27   #37
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Default Re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by el lobo 6061 View Post
Remap would be way better than those piggy back tuning boxes be it single/dual or other channels. Drive back to back remapped & piggy back boxes you would understand the difference.

Tuning boxes are no match to remap. For say DieselTronic which has some 4 modes. Eg. you are in eco mode and now you wish to go pedal to metal mode. First thing take your mind of driving car and change the mode which on the move is as dangerous as talking while driving car.

On the other hand remapped cars are always in sports mode and just press the pedal and you are away.

Many of you all say "Remap cars and your warranty is void". Has anyone of them either remapped their cars? Reason I ask is; leaving VW, Skoda and three big Germans, no other manufacturer workshop even has the slightest idea of OBD and never ever connect VAS machine to read ECU or update it.

E.g. Ford, Ecosport 1.5 TDCi in consideration. I bet Ford ever gonna be updating the ECU or workshop people ever going to connect any OBD port reading machine. Because they never update the ECU or make any changes.

I have a remapped Ford Fiesta 1.4 TDCi and have made quite a few under warranty claims e.g. RTB replacement, steering column and suspension as well, no issues what so ever. Also 20K Kms after remap, no one at the workshop knows that the car is remapped.

Another important point Fords 1.4 TDCi & 1.5 TDCi are very mediocre engines and don't have much technicalities involved. So remap done on them is very much reliable and many cars have been tuned with the very same engines.

Ecosport rules, go ahead and get your car remapped and it would be way better than those tuning boxes(Dangling wires in engine bay). I'm being harsh over here, but its the truth.

Tuners around the world know remap is better than tuning boxes. I have seen people purchasing tuning boxes and then later moving over to remap which has been far better than tuning boxes. I did always suggest a remap eyes closed.

My 2p.
I too am using my 4th remapped car instead of the tuning boxes and I would recommend a remap over a tuning box.

Hyundai Verna CRDi (Old) 1.5 CRDi - Clocked 80,000kms in total - 47,000kms after remap (Now car is sold)

Fiat Grande Punto Emotion Pack (75hp) - Clocked 36,000kms in total - 30,000kms after remap (Now car is sold)

Maruti Suzuki Ritz VDI - Clocked 50,000kms in total - 30,000kms after the remap (Currently using the car)

Maruti Suzuki Ertiga ZDI - Clocked 17,000kms in total - 2,000 kms after the remap (Currently using the car)

The best part is no pain of removing any thing before sending it for any kind of services/repairs.

Secondly people do say that how do you come to know without a Dyno about the remap & what it is delivering and my only reply is who does a dyno after installing a tuning box. It is always word to mouth publicity & networking approach of that brand. We all know Petes not just for its products but they have created a brand name as well.

It really is your call but do keep in mind how you maintain your vehicle. (Atleast I would not want anything sticking out/hanging around in the engine bay.)
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Old 23rd December 2013, 20:47   #38
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Default Re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

I just came across the following on Kiirus Facebook page. Looks tempting but place for getting it done is Navi Mumbai. You all can get in touch and see if anything works out, if they could some how do it for you at your location other than Navi Mumbai.

Quote:
The whole of next week our pricing will be discounted by 25% on regular mrp. So that makes it

24000 rounded off on following :

Polo,Vento, Fabia, Rapid, Duster, Fluence, Ecosport, Cruze, Captiva

Chevy beat spark petrol : 17000

Multijets : 20000

Imports : Never discounted.

OFFER VALID UNTIL LAST DAY OF DECEMBER 2013. Drive to our workshop in Juinagar Navi Mumbai or late - my home.

2014 WE ROLL BACK TO NORMAL PRICES.

Source :
Note : I'm not associated with Kiirus in anyway. Just passing on information for greater benefit of bhpians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecosport rules View Post
Have seen many threads on the same but none specific to Ford (Diesel tronics vs petes vs racechip vs remap).

All your valuable inputs are welcome
Looking at the above post Kiirus definitely has remap for EcoSport. Get in touch with them if you plan to get a remap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
TDI quoted me 60K for a similar remap and there is no way iam going to spend that kind of money for those additional horses
Now 24,000 for remap from Kiirus is quite less in comparison to TDi Racing's 60k. I believe the tuning box would have been slightly cheaper. Now whats your though on remap given the above price for Cruze?
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Old 26th December 2013, 11:32   #39
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Default Re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

I'd like to know from re-mapped Ford owners if smoke from exhaust is a common phenomenon, like in the case of tuning boxes.[/quote]

Hi Vnabhi,
I had the same concern and asked my friend to check if the car smokes after the remap and if I will be burning more fuel inefficiently. He followed me on open stretches of outer ring road (here in bangalore) where I revved her till 3000 rpm in 2nd and 3rd gears and in bumper to bumper traffic also where are revved her till 2500 rpm in first gear. But it did not smoke at all. Only under hard acceleration it smokes and I believe this is an expected behavior from all the diesel engines. the power delivery is linear. The tune has improved both the driveability and the highway cruising. The car feels lighter now and the diesel engine clatter during cold starts has almost disappeared. I hope this answers your question.

Regards,
amiya
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Old 31st January 2014, 04:20   #40
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Default Re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayded View Post
Though I wouldn't even dare to question the person's knowledge, the language used seems a bit too dramatic to me. I am sure it's not as bad it is portrayed in that post. Thanks for the clarification DV. I've read almost all the C6 remapped car threads on GH and do appreciate your efforts and way of working. All the very best..
Hi,
What do you honestly feel after the remap?
Worth it or leave it stock?

Is the remap really necessary?
My only observation was that your car was smoking excessively.
How do you compare remapped figo to stock ecosport?
Would like to drive your car one day

Last edited by ecosport rules : 31st January 2014 at 04:21.
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Old 31st January 2014, 21:28   #41
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Default Re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecosport rules View Post
Hi,
What do you honestly feel after the remap?
Worth it or leave it stock?

Is the remap really necessary?
My only observation was that your car was smoking excessively.
How do you compare remapped figo to stock ecosport?
Would like to drive your car one day
Hi Dr. Kumar,

It's been around 600 kms since I got my car remapped and so far it's been good. Smoking is one factor that I need to get checked. The guys from ToT had warned me about this since I had gone for an aggressive tune, so whenever I dump the throttle, the car smokes.

Now coming to the differences/observations after the remap:
1) Top speed doesn't change, still the same at around 160 km/h
2) The car now feels like it has gone on a diet and lost around 300 kgs. It's more eager to move now, and when in the turbo zone, closes out gaps in traffic in a jiffy. The car is running on close to 88 bhp and 200 NM.
3) Overtaking is a breeze now. You always do not need to downshift to perform that quick overtaking maneuver. If you are in the band, just a dap on the A pedal and you are done.
4) After the remap, the turbo band "feels" that it shifted up a bit. I am saying "feels" because now the mid range punch is really good from ~2000 rpm till ~3500 rpm while the stock Figo pulls from as low as 1500. The strong pull after 2K makes you feel that it's lagging till that point.
5) I was asked to regularly clean/replace the air filter since the amount of air going in is a big factor in getting the best performance and also reduces the smoking.
6) Fuel: ToT recommended HP or BP and not IOC. I regularly fill up from a COCO IOC pump or an HP pump, and when the car was remapped, it was running on IOC and the next time I filled up at HP. To be honest I feel there is a dip in performance with HP. At times I miss that pull when you floor it, which I had experienced with the IOC diesel. It might be a feeling, but I am kind of sure it is not.

Comparing stock Ecosport and a remapped Figo:
I honestly don't know how you literally fly your car but when I drove my friend's TDCi Ecosport, the only thing that I had a tiny grouse about was that the engine felt underpowered for the heavy car. It was not eager to move. I'm not saying it was a slouch, but then the car was not in a hurry to get to places. But to be honest seeing how your car moves, I would want to take that line back. The remapped Figo is still lower on figures compared to a stock Ecosport, but then the kerb weight would be lesser in the Figo, hence you feel that peppiness.

And lastly, you are welcome to drive my car anytime. Just let me know whenever you want to. The ORR is at our disposal, though they have enforced the speed limits.
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Old 31st January 2014, 23:11   #42
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Default Re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

@Jayded---congrats on your remap! How much did it cost you and where did you get it done?

Other than smoke under hard acceleration, are there any negatives? How about F.E.? Has the diesel clatter on cold starts reduced?
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Old 31st January 2014, 23:17   #43
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Default Re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecosport rules View Post
Worth it or leave it stock?

Is the remap really necessary?
It depends on whether you want more performance or no and on the budget that you are ready to put. A box is better as the car is under warranty and could be an issue if the ASC finds a remap. Till the car is under warranty use a box post which go for a remap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayded View Post
Smoking is one factor that I need to get checked. The guys from ToT had warned me about this since I had gone for an aggressive tune, so whenever I dump the throttle, the car smokes.

I have seen this smoking problem with the RD Box too. May be the fueling is not adjusted properly and more amount is added but not getting combusted hence the smoke.

3) Overtaking is a breeze now. You always do not need to downshift to perform that quick overtaking maneuver. If you are in the band, just a dap on the A pedal and you are done.
Are there any vibrations or such when the turbo spools up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayded View Post
5) I was asked to regularly clean/replace the air filter since the amount of air going in is a big factor in getting the best performance and also reduces the smoking.
So cost of maintenance has increased and I feel the oil change interval too should be affected?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayded View Post
6) Fuel: ToT recommended HP or BP and not IOC. I regularly fill up from a COCO IOC pump or an HP pump, and when the car was remapped, it was running on IOC and the next time I filled up at HP. To be honest I feel there is a dip in performance with HP. At times I miss that pull when you floor it, which I had experienced with the IOC diesel. It might be a feeling, but I am kind of sure it is not.
Now this is good piece of information. Can you ask ToT why specific manufacturer why not any diesel to be used?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayded View Post
And lastly, you are welcome to drive my car anytime. Just let me know whenever you want to. The ORR is at our disposal, though they have enforced the speed limits.
Not the whole ORR, Patancheru (Exit-3) to Medchal (Exit-6) is still free and no rules have been implemented

Anurag.
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Old 31st January 2014, 23:46   #44
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Default Re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
@Jayded---congrats on your remap! How much did it cost you and where did you get it done?

Other than smoke under hard acceleration, are there any negatives? How about F.E.? Has the diesel clatter on cold starts reduced?
Hi Venu sir,

I got it done from Tune-O-Tronics. They visit Hyderabad at least once in two months. Vivek from ToT came over and did the logistics. The stock map was sent to Sid over the internet who tuned it as per our discussion and then flashed it back on the ECU. The total damage was 28K which includes unlimited tweaks/flashes.

I would say the FE is more or less the same or may be even slightly improved. Since the remap I have been flooring it without any real reasons and still managed 16 kmpl. The diesel clatter is almost the same as it was before. Slight reduction, yes, but no significant reduction. Other than the black smoke, there are no negatives noticed so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Are there any vibrations or such when the turbo spools up?
Nope, no vibrations. It feels exactly like a stock, just that there is much more punch now.

Quote:
So cost of maintenance has increased and I feel the oil change interval too should be affected?
Vivek suggested changing the air filter every 5K kms at least and dusting/cleaning it every 2K. The engine needs to breathe better now. He suggested using synthetic oil for optimum performance, but I am going to stick with Ford's oil since they claim it to be semi-synthetic and is cheaper. There is no change in oil change interval.

Quote:
Now this is good piece of information. Can you ask ToT why specific manufacturer why not any diesel to be used?
He mentioned that the quality of fuel is much better for HP and BP etc. compared to IOC, hence the recommendation.

Quote:
Not the whole ORR, Patancheru (Exit-3) to Medchal (Exit-6) is still free and no rules have been implemented
Point duly noted
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Old 31st January 2014, 23:51   #45
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Default Re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayded View Post
Vivek suggested changing the air filter every 5K kms at least and dusting/cleaning it every 2K. The engine needs to breathe better now. He suggested using synthetic oil for optimum performance, but I am going to stick with Ford's oil since they claim it to be semi-synthetic and is cheaper. There is no change in oil change interval.
It is recommended to follow this practice regularly. I have been doing this for the Ritz till the car touched 50K. I used to change the Oil + Oil filer and Air filter every 5K kms after which stuck to manufacturer recommendations.

Which oil does Ford use and cost?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayded View Post
He mentioned that the quality of fuel is much better for HP and BP etc. compared to IOC, hence the recommendation.
Wish I get more technical feedback on this. Can I contact Vivek/ToT for this fuel issue clarity?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayded View Post
Point duly noted
Thank you. Hope you get the point and thing that I wanted to convey!

Anurag.
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