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Old 19th December 2013, 02:22   #1
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Default EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Hey guys,

I have been researching into this topic since 2 months now and am still confused as to which modification is safe for the engine. Have seen many threads on the same but none specific to Ford (Diesel tronics vs petes vs racechip vs remap).

Thank you

All your valuable inputs are welcome

Last edited by GTO : 20th December 2013 at 13:46. Reason: Typo
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Old 19th December 2013, 07:04   #2
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Default re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

You lose your warranty with remap, so I would recommend to go with a tuning box. Remap is an expensive proposition too.

The advantage with tuning box is that you can remove it before leaving the car for service and fix it back on your own.

I've heard good reviews on Diesel tronics from customer care perspective. And the device comes with a remote for couple of different modes (FE or power kinds). Havent used one myself.

May be you can add a voting with the different options and see how it goes
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Old 19th December 2013, 07:43   #3
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Default re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HillMan View Post
You lose your warranty with remap, so I would recommend to go with a tuning box. Remap is an expensive proposition too.

The advantage with tuning box is that you can remove it before leaving the car for service and fix it back on your own..

May be you can add a voting with the different options and see how it goes
Thank you very much Hillram
Do you by any chance know the exact mechanisms involved in each tuning box namely

1.DIESELTRONICS by race dynamics
2.Petes
3.spider.
4.Racechip.

-What is the adverse effect on the engine minor or major?
-Why don't the manufactures themselves do this as it appears quite simple?
-What are the options we have in India for remaps? And how do they function
-What are the prices for each option?.
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Old 19th December 2013, 08:38   #4
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Default re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecosport rules View Post
-What are the prices for each option?
.
I have a friend of mine who has been using DIESEL TRONICS for his 2010 Swift Dzire. As mentioned by Hillram it comes with 3 modes P1, P2 & E. This is paired with a remote and the driver can switch modes while driving.He is very happy with the installation and he makes sure that this box is removed which is a 5 min Job before the car goes for the regular service.
He got this installed from a store in Begumpet when the car was 6 months old (If i remember that correct) , I can definitely get more details if you are interested and share his number as well so that you can talk in person for the feedback.

Cheers,

pdma

Last edited by GTO : 20th December 2013 at 13:49. Reason: Typo
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Old 19th December 2013, 08:51   #5
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Default re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction

1. Manufacturers design the Engines to last few decades with proper care. The reliability of the engine makes or breaks their reputation.
2. It is an expensive affair to tune and service the engine specific for every region they sell. Which means the tuning has to be generic. From low altitude to high up and take the beating of moisture and dust. The air intake and mixture guides this aspect.
3. The machine should show good balance between power and fuel economy in all situations. City and Highway, Hills or Plain. A Rich or Lean mixture means more engine heat too.

This brings to an important factor. There is huge scope for improvement and tuning based on individual needs. And this is where the tuning boxes and remaps come into play.

With the advent of electronically programmable chips, engine remapping became a big thing for enthusiasts. As we progressed, tuning boxes started making their presence felt.

Remapping is modifying/rewriting the existing logic on the Engine Control Unit, while tuning box fools the ECU by providing incorrect sensor data to its advantage, like low fuel intake so ECU feeds more fuel to the engine. Both do a good job, while the latter is a plug and play device.

The manufacturers cut costs by designing the engine components to be as durable as the engine is made capable of. Like the 85hp duster transmission is designed for 200mn torque, which it already delivers. Going for a tune and increasing the torque could damage the transmission if you hit the limit. Not a normal scenario thou, might come up in a towing scenario or extreme offloading, which is not what these vehicles are designed for. So similarly research the capabilities of your machine before going for these.

Last edited by HillMan : 19th December 2013 at 08:56.
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Old 19th December 2013, 10:38   #6
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Default re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

-thank you again hill ram.
What are the prices for each option?.

Last edited by ecosport rules : 19th December 2013 at 10:43.
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Old 19th December 2013, 11:18   #7
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Default re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Kumar, Iam a big fan of tuning boxes primarily for the reason that i wouldnt want to fiddle with the electronics at a deeper level.

Having used tuning boxes from 2 different manafacturers, I can probably throw some light on both products

1. Petes Box ( Accent Viva CRDI)

Undoubtedly, till about a couple of years, they were the most popular tuning box in India. It is an imported product and sold under the brand name of Pete's. However, now they are more popular for their custom remaps than the tuning boxes.

Petes is not a completely "For India" product as it's not tested for Indian conditions. However, having used this product on my Accent Viva CRDI for almost 35,000kms, I never faced any issues and power surge was more than satisfactory. Only issue that you will ever face with a tuning box is exessive smoke under hard accelaration and in my Viva, it was practically visible in the ORVM. If you can live with that one embarrasment, then tuning box is for you

I used to use a green cotton air filter to make the car breathe easier but, that didnt help much and after 5000kms the filter used to get unbeilevably dirty and was practically a painful task to clean.

In short, my first stint with tuning box was quite good which gave me the confidence to try it again on my next car (Cruze)

2. RaceDynamics Box (Chevrolet Cruze)

Iam using this product in my Cruze for 15,000kms + and Iam an elated customer. No issues so far except for the same minor irritant of excessive smoke from exhuast under hard accelaration. I can straight away tell you it's a much superior product than Pete's in many ways.

Some of them listed below from my limited knowledge :-

a) Indigeniously designed product for Indian conditions
b) Possibility of changing modes ( S=Stock, E= Economy, P1= 15% Bump in power, P2= 25% Bump in power) on the fly ( I mean practically while your in motion)
c) Same as Petes box, DIY and easy removal.

Honestly speaking these days service centers really dont care about whether you leave your car for service with your box on OR off. Having said that, RD boxes are now being sold off the counter by Hyundai, so Hyundai cars have no fear of losing warranty and similarly, we can see other manafacturers adopting these boxes

Pros of RD
- It monitors both fuel pressure levels and also turbo boost (Dual Channel) Whereas Petes box and other boxes (I think) boost power only through increasing the fuel pressure. Therefore, RD is much better in terms of extracting more performance from the tuning box

- Modes are really helpful. With a simple press of button, you can drive on your stock power ratings, or bump it up to 15% or 25% by pressing the P1 or P2 accordingly

Re-map
Have never used a remap but, Iam given to understand remaps are marginally better than the tuning box in terms of overall performance outputs but, it's an irreversible action ( can be reversed only by the tuner) and is a much more expensive option.

Tuning Boxes are approximately 25K, whereas, remaps cost INR 35K and upwards
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Old 19th December 2013, 12:04   #8
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Default re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
Kumar, Iam a big fan of tuning box
Thank you avi
You expert opinions are always a pleasure to read
Is your cruze an FTG or VGT because dual channel works only on FGTs I suppose.
Ecosport has a Fixed geometric turbo (FGT) so what is best for it.

What is the damage to the engine if at all any?
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Old 19th December 2013, 12:09   #9
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Default re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecosport rules View Post
Thank you avi
You expert opinions are always a pleasure to read
Is your cruze an FTG or VGT because dual channel works only on FGTs I suppose.
Ecosport has a Fixed geometric turbo (FGT) so what is best for it.

What is the damage to the engine if at all any?
The RD dual Channel tuning box works on the VGT, whereas you will have to make do with the single channel tuning box for the FGT powered engines.
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Old 19th December 2013, 12:31   #10
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Default re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecosport rules View Post
-thank you again hill ram.
What are the prices for each option?.
mobike008 & nkrishnap have provided good info.

Send an email to info@racedynamics.in for pricing, they respond pretty quick. The cost depends on vehicle and product. Not sure if they have a well tested tune for EcoSport already.

Don't change my tag name.

Last edited by HillMan : 19th December 2013 at 12:34.
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Old 19th December 2013, 12:39   #11
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Default re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

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Originally Posted by HillMan View Post
The cost depends on vehicle and product. Not sure if they have a well tested tune for EcoSport already.
Racedynamics product pricing is same irrespective of which car you buy for. Single channel is cheaper at 20K compared to dual channel which costs 26K

Btw, I use a RD Chip for my Bullet as well and its changed the performance dynamics of my bike as well
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Old 19th December 2013, 13:35   #12
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Default re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

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Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
Btw, I use a RD Chip for my Bullet as well and its changed the performance dynamics of my bike as well
Had no clue they had a chip for Bullet. Guess it must be the 500. So, does it do wheel spin and wheelie now
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Old 19th December 2013, 13:46   #13
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Default re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
The RD dual Channel tuning box works on the VGT, whereas you will have to make do with the single channel tuning box for the FGT powered engines.
Single channel or Dual channel depends on the ability of the ECU to control the boost and not solely on FGT/VGT turbo setup. I20 CRDi has a FGT but i still have the dual channel setup in my car since the boost is controlled by the ECU
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Old 19th December 2013, 14:55   #14
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Default re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HillMan View Post
Had no clue they had a chip for Bullet. Guess it must be the 500. So, does it do wheel spin and wheelie now
Oh Yeah, they have. I have it installed on my Classic 500 Chrome and almost always on Map 3 (Out of 5 maps) which is the most powerful and it does what you said above and with elan..

If interested you can read about it here as its the first bull on forum to be remapped :-

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorb...-team-bhp.html (RE Classic 500 (Race Dynamics Fitted) : First BULL on Team-BHP!)

My ownership thread is here :-

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorb...umps-home.html

Kumar, my suggestion would be to speak to an owner of tuning box and also with someone who has done a remap and finally speak with RD directly to get all your technical queries answered before taking the plunge

Cheers & Good Luck !!
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Old 19th December 2013, 15:14   #15
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Default re: EcoSport TDCi: Tuning Box or Remap?

As per my experience the remap is far ahead in performance since the lookup tables are adjusted based on all available params from the ECU where as the tuning boxes are limited to only very few params (I believe 4 as per the latest ones) and give fake values to the ECU. If there is any, the first hit will be on the fuel injector (if one fails all 4 should be replaced)

As far as I understand the current infrastructure and know how of the technicians in any service center will not be able to detect the checksum difference with the remap. It may be detected only if it is done by the engineers from the factory. In that case even the previous presence of a tuning box can also be detected.

BTW, the service managers are well aware of this and everything matters with the rapo you have with them.

Last edited by ::CMS:: : 19th December 2013 at 15:18.
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