Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Modifications & Accessories


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 2nd January 2014, 21:04   #1
gps
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Delhi
Posts: 13
Thanked: 39 Times
Default LED Headlamp Bulbs are here! The end of HID?

Hello people,

I've been waiting patiently for imminent arrival of LED headlight bulbs, and seems the wait is over... or is it?

Came across these products on the bay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-H4-9003-H...3f8b8d&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CREE-KIT-900...2855a6&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-H4-WHITE-...3b60ff&vxp=mtr

There are 2-3 different designs, typically with a fan. These are different from what have been available as LED headlamp earlier. Reviews across the internet are sparse, and mixed. Apparently, relatively short throw is the biggest limitation.

I've decided to take the plunge. I'll update with my reviews. Typical transit time has always been around 3-4 weeks, so I'll be patient.

Till then, please feel free to post your own opinion/speculations, and any other reviews you find relevant for the Indian scene.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by GTO : 3rd January 2014 at 13:19. Reason: Please avoid using "..." everywhere. Use proper punctuation. Also, no need to start your thread with a mod note. Thanks.
gps is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2014, 02:10   #2
BHPian
 
RIC.BURNS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chennai
Posts: 192
Thanked: 102 Times
Default re: LED Headlamp Bulbs are here! The end of HID?

I guess its a gamble with Reliability and effectiveness.

LED headlights will soon be outdated with the premium brands, its the laser now which BMW and Audi are fighting to get to production.

Last edited by GTO : 3rd January 2014 at 13:20. Reason: Typo
RIC.BURNS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2014, 02:44   #3
Senior - BHPian
 
ecosport rules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,077
Thanked: 1,342 Times
Default re: LED Headlamp Bulbs are here! The end of HID?

Hi,
As of now it will take atleast 5 to 6 years for HIDs to get standardized across all car manufacturers.
LEDs will start to take over from there and for those to get standardized will atleast take 12 to 14 years.

Audi A6 already has full LED headlamps.

Lets wait for your feedback as you have already ordered.

Remember that HID/xenon are atleast 3 times brighter than halogen, you have to tell us how much more brighter are LEDs compared to HIDs.
All the very best

Last edited by ecosport rules : 3rd January 2014 at 02:45.
ecosport rules is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2014, 08:24   #4
Senior - BHPian
 
IshaanIan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Hyd/B'lore
Posts: 2,438
Thanked: 3,135 Times
Default re: LED Headlamp Bulbs are here! The end of HID?

Been wondering the same thing. Please let us know how they are in comparison to HIDs. LEDs should be more available to the rest of the market in another 2-3 years (not as oem fitments ofcourse) short throw is not acceptable at all. What car will you be fitting them in? Will you be using projectors to focus the beam? And seriously if a buddy has the same car with HID bulbs, a comparo would make for a really effectively backed up and informative thread.
IshaanIan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2014, 08:57   #5
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,955
Thanked: 15,648 Times
Default re: LED Headlamp Bulbs are here! The end of HID?

What timing for a thread!!
I am using a light bar right now, for offroad conditions. Results are stagerring.
This is 60W (6 LEDs)
Will post a full review later




However if you want stock bulb replacement, stay away for now. LEDs require proper heat sinking when you use high power.
In a few years, when efficiency will be higher, this will be the future, but as of now, its the aux lights you can get.

The most common high power emitter used is XML T6. It can be driven to 3A(10-12W), and light output is a staggering 1000 lumen, but trust me, without heatsinking, its a no go. I have destroyed so many low quality flashlights by over driving them. Worked like a dream but duty cycle was barely minutes.

These H4 replacements use 3W LEDs, and stack a lot of them. Even then heat is an issue. Ideally, you need a small point source with a high output, rather than it all spread around. Until the efficiency and heat ratio problem is completely solved, its only aux lights as you can heatsink them very well

Last edited by tsk1979 : 3rd January 2014 at 09:03.
tsk1979 is offline   (13) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2014, 11:51   #6
Senior - BHPian
 
alpha1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: P00NA
Posts: 1,626
Thanked: 967 Times
Default re: LED Headlamp Bulbs are here! The end of HID?

Why don't we use lumens rating only for lighting/bulbs. The wattage business really throws the comparisons haywire.

I mean 60W of incandescent bulb is completely different from a 60W of HID, which in turn is completely different from 60W of LED.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy


LED is a better technology (at least as per this comparison with HID: http://www.premierltg.com/light-fights-led-vs-hid/)
alpha1 is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2014, 12:15   #7
Senior - BHPian
 
greenhorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: TN-14
Posts: 6,838
Thanked: 1,318 Times
Default re: LED Headlamp Bulbs are here! The end of HID?

One of the big problems with LED's is that as you make them smaller or brighter or more powerful, their efficiency decreases. Either you'll have to go with large panels, or else sacrifice efficiency.
greenhorn is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2014, 12:21   #8
Team-BHP Support
 
Rehaan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 22,381
Thanked: 22,606 Times
Default re: LED Headlamp Bulbs are here! The end of HID?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gps View Post
Reviews across the internets are sparse, and mixed.. apparently, relatively short throw is the biggest limitation.
Honestly, I would stay away from modifying safety-related systems on a car. This would primarily be things like the braking system, but also extend to headlights. (Especially if your source is unknown brands on ebay).

The thing is that even though headlights might look powerful and good to you, there are other issues. Primarily, inconveniencing other road users. You would probably be fairly oblivious to doing this, as its rare that you will be approaching your own car at night. If you notice even slightly more people flashing their high beams at you, its a sign that your headlights are blinding them in some way.

Each automotive headlight is created with a specific model of bulb in mind, and the reflector is designed particularly for this set up - to provide the most uniform and well distributed light throw. Putting in a different type of light source changes things around quite significantly, as tungsten bulbs and LEDs are fundamentally different. I'm not an expert, but i can tell you things won't be exactly the same here.

Hella and other companies have been developing these LED lights for 8+ years now. However, they still haven't been able to get it to market. 2005 Link (Hella develops LED HeadLamps)

Just recently, cars like the new Audi A8 and Mercedes S-Class have started to use all-LED headlamps for the first time ever. See my post below from the S-Class review:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
LED LIGHTING

As a world first, the W222 S-Class has no conventional bulbs anywhere in the car. LEDs have completely replaced filament-type bulbs. The headlights too have been switched over to 100% LED units. Each headlight houses up to 56 high-powered LEDs. The advantage of LEDs is that they turn on faster, last longer, produce less heat and use less energy. You'll never have to change a bulb! Also note that LED headlamps don't require a washer spray by law, as the HID lamps do.


Mercedes has taken the LED headlights a step further, and has developed "Adaptive Highbeam Assist Plus" which allows the entire area ahead of the car to be flooded with high-beam light, without blinding other road users. This system works by locating other vehicles on the road (the forward facing cameras see their headlights / taillights) and the system casts a shadow at the desired position.


In this simulator, I was able to mimic the headlights of oncoming traffic; the S-Class' headlights immediately cast a shadow in the correct position. Switching rapidly between lights to mimic a fast approaching vehicle was easily handled by the system as you can see below. When there are no vehicles around, the headlights return to an uninterupted high-beam.

(Animated image)

Here's a closer look at the headlight assembly. The outer projector moves in order to create or relocate the area of shadow.

(Animated image)

If there are multiple vehicles ahead of the S-Class, the width of the shadow cut-out can increase accordingly - but there can only be one continuous shadow area.

The system checks vehicle speed, looks up GPS coordinates of the road you are on, and even uses the cameras to see if street lights are present. Accordingly, it adjusts the beam for city use, motorway use, country roads (wider & higher spread of light) or enhanced fog lighting.

If the S-Class detects a person walking on the road at night, it points them out to the driver by flashing them with a targeted box of light 4 times. What is amazing is that, though the night-vision and other systems can detect animals on the road, the S-Class is smart enough to differentiate between humans and animals. Why is this required? Because humans are flashed with light, animals are not. The engineers felt that unlike humans, animals might react unpredictably to these warning flashes.

In this cut-away of the headlight assembly, the two clear plastic circles seen at the center are the LEDs. There are several others which aren't visible in the picture.


The tail lamps, though not very 'Mercedes looking', are elegant and upmarket in my opinion. They contain 35 LEDs each, with an additional 4 for the rear fog lamp. The center areas light up during braking.


Just like the intelligent headlights, the taillights are thoughtful too. During the daytime, they work at full intensity. At night however, their light intensity drops to 80% so as not to blind other road users. When the vehicle is at a standstill, the intensity drops further to 60%. This applies for the brake lights and indicators, but not the DRLs which are always lit at a constant intensity.


...
...
...


cya
R

Last edited by Rehaan : 3rd January 2014 at 12:23.
Rehaan is offline   (21) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2014, 12:39   #9
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,955
Thanked: 15,648 Times
Default re: LED Headlamp Bulbs are here! The end of HID?

In high power LEDs(eg 10W emitter), heat is an issue due to decreasing efficiency. Companies do make 20W or even 40W emitters now. There is lot of research going on to increase efficiency, but at the current state researchers know what causes the drop, but do not have a fix.

That said, as long as you have 10W or below, you can get an aux light with LEDs without issue.

another advantage, beam focussing is very easy. HIDs, and halogens(to some extent) require complex reflector/projector design. Otherwise the scatter will mean all the ligth goes here and there. With LED precise aiming is possible at a reasonable cost.
The amount of light you can pack is also phenomenal.

For example, lets take a Osram silverstar headlight at full beam
See the beam from 2 headlights.
LED Headlamp Bulbs are here! The end of HID?-a3x2.jpg
Now lets take a cheap(but decent quality) made in china flashlight with 3 XML T6 driven at around 7-8W each.

LED Headlamp Bulbs are here! The end of HID?-c1x2.jpg

Getting this sort of spot beam requires precise focus control. Very difficult in halogen or HID even with Aux.
With LEDs you can even have a variable focus setup for cheap. Move it away or towards the emitter.
So at high speed, you could move the lens away, and narrow down the beam for range, while keeping the low beam spread for illuminating sides.
In city at slow speeds, even high beam could be broad spread showing you the road.

But as said, inside headlight assemblies, heat-sink is a major issue. Aux lights on bumpers can have fins, but headlights, fins will be in engine bay.

Moreover, the Auto industry has a lot of intertia. They change only when
1. regulations demand it
2. There is a significant cost advantage.
3. Its a high end car so they want to be different.

currently HID and Halogen lamp assemblies has a thriving ecosystem of vendors and suppliers.
As high end cars start getting LEDs, you may see some mid range car move to LEDs. Slowly within 2-3 years the system will trickle down.

If heat issue is solved, the move would be accelerated, because now you do not need to redesign your engine bay at all.

Coming to this heat issue its indeed major. I had a 1A driven XML-T6 torch with poor heatsinking. Driving to 3A boosted light output, but after 40 seconds it went "poof".
tsk1979 is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2014, 20:42   #10
gps
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Delhi
Posts: 13
Thanked: 39 Times
Default Re: LED Headlamp Bulbs are here! The end of HID?

My views:

so far, the LED bulbs were usally made up of a LOT of SMD leds mounted on a connector all around. as in the photo

But, these had no high/low beams, and definitely no real power. There are no positive reviews of these used as headlight bulbs.

I got intrigued when I found the new design: the other photo

These have two led chips, one for high and one for low beam, and apparently, have been designed with size and positioning of these chips same as filaments in halogens.. aiming for a drop-in replacement.

now this: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27891 is the oldest thread I could find on internet talking about similar bulbs.

I am not looking to install a projector in the headlight assy. And I am aware of 'glare' issue for oncoming traffic, so drop-in of HID is a no-no.

In the photos (in that thread), the cutoff/spread seemed to be similar to halogens, in the installs, so I think design replicates halogen bulb features quite well. I hope these will not cause any glare to on-coming traffic. If they did, they will ether end up in fogs, or on by desk. Some users complained that throw is not much. I'd like to judge that for myself.

As far as comparison go, I would prefer if an unbiased eye judges it. Once it arrives, I'll post the photos, and I am willing to bring the car around, for anyone who may want to see it in person.

Fingers crossed.
Attached Images
  
gps is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2014, 11:28   #11
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 25
Thanked: 13 Times
Default Re: LED Headlamp Bulbs are here! The end of HID?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gps View Post
My views:

so far, the LED bulbs were usally made up of a LOT of SMD leds mounted on a connector all around. as in the photo

But, these had no high/low beams, and definitely no real power. There are no positive reviews of these used as headlight bulbs.

I got intrigued when I found the new design: the other photo
Had been considering these for long. The led assembly produces 1800 lumens and is available in H4/H7 drop in replacement for halogens (so no warranty loss, unlike HID projector replacement) . They are fitted with digital fans, but need to see how good the heat dissipation is.

CREE is the best company when it comes to led lamps. But the assembly here is OEM.

Will wait for your feedback.
Anuraj Ennai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2014, 12:10   #12
BHPian
 
devilwearsprada's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: GoonGaon
Posts: 458
Thanked: 719 Times
Default Re: LED Headlamp Bulbs are here! The end of HID?

I remember one of the links in the directory about MXS- New Delhi. One of fellow members got an LED headlamp for his RE and mentioned its good throw and brightness!
devilwearsprada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2014, 12:35   #13
BHPian
 
yogisays0909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Navi Mumbai
Posts: 499
Thanked: 165 Times
Default Re: LED Headlamp Bulbs are here! The end of HID?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gps View Post
My views:

so far, the LED bulbs were usally made up of a LOT of SMD leds mounted on a connector all around. as in the photo

But, these had no high/low beams, and definitely no real power. There are no positive reviews of these used as headlight bulbs.
I have used these bulbs but they are of no use, they do have high low beams.
Real cheap like H4 pair would cost 200-300 INR. Have a set of H4 with 68SMD , 120SMD and H3 with 68 and 120. Didnt try the H3 yet in the fog lamps of my Beat, running the H4 on the CBR 600, not really impressive.
yogisays0909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2014, 21:19   #14
Newbie
 
RamRoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 10
Thanked: 2 Times
Default Re: LED Headlamp Bulbs are here! The end of HID?

What is the blinding factor of LEDs for an incoming traffic?
I use a couple of LED bulbs in my house replacing the CFLs, but its tough to stare at it directly due to its sharpness and straight beam angles rather than a dispersed angle.
RamRoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2014, 20:24   #15
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Delhi,Allahabad
Posts: 293
Thanked: 213 Times
Default Re: LED Headlamp Bulbs are here! The end of HID?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecosport rules View Post
Hi,

Remember that HID/xenon are atleast 3 times brighter than halogen, you have to tell us how much more brighter are LEDs compared to HIDs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
What timing for a thread!!
I am using a light bar right now, for offroad conditions. Results are stagerring.
This is 60W (6 LEDs)
Quite frankly, excepting an adaptation to a leaner and more efficient technology in terms of power consumption vs lux, what difference does it make ?

1. The existing Halogens coupled with everyone going around with high beams, low beams + fog lamps all ON are more than enough to see and to blind the oncoming motorist. Getting anything brighter is only a recipe for disaster and more accidents.
2. If these are the kind of light intensity you actually need, you need to get your eyesight & night vision checked ?

In our kind of road conditions, including the highways, the extra bright headlights are outright blinding and as I said earlier, a recipe for disaster.
My humble opinion , though.
lifebuoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Car names - end in vowels now, used to end in consonants. Any reason? SS-Traveller Shifting gears 50 4th September 2012 17:02
High-end head phones VS High-end Speakers low_bass_makker In-Car Entertainment 43 30th July 2012 20:39
Road Trip–2700 KMs Europe & 3380 KMS UK + end-to-end. ramkya1 Travelogues 177 26th June 2010 14:54
HID lighting query re bulbs whatcanthisbe Modifications & Accessories 20 7th March 2010 09:06


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 13:44.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks