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View Poll Results: What would you prefer: Engine Swap or Forced Induction
Engine Swap 12 50.00%
Forced Induction 4 16.67%
Both !! 8 33.33%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 7th August 2006, 18:22   #1
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Default Which is better for daily street use: Engine Swaps or Turbocharging?

Note from the Team-BHP Support : This thread has been created from posts in another thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho
PS: the tools are of great importance yes and so are the skills to use them correctly and hats off to the people who have done it right (facts being facts none of them got it right in the fiirst place either )
I agree completely. The reason why people crib is cause they do not do enough research and expect plug and play components to perform miracles. Factually these components are not actually plug and play and require a lot of work after being plugged in, before some on can actually enjoy them to their fullest.

I don't want to dampen anyones spirits, but if you are looking for more power turbo charging is not an option - atleast not with the limited knowledge and hardware which is at our disposal. The best option is an engine swap, which will cost you lesser and you can enjoy your car the very minute you turn the key on.

Last edited by GTO : 8th August 2006 at 09:25.
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Old 7th August 2006, 18:35   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways
I agree completely. The reason why people crib is cause they do not do enough research and expect plug and play components to perform miracles. Factually these components are not actually plug and play and require a lot of work after being plugged in, before some on can actually enjoy them to their fullest.

I don't want to dampen anyones spirits, but if you are looking for more power turbo charging is not an option - atleast not with the limited knowledge and hardware which is at our disposal. The best option is an engine swap, which will cost you lesser and you can enjoy your car the very minute you turn the key on.

Hey,

Could not have said it better, I agree with you 100%. an engine swap or doing up your engine is the best, cheapest and easiest way to go compared to a Turbo.

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Old 7th August 2006, 18:42   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways
I don't want to dampen anyones spirits, but if you are looking for more power turbo charging is not an option - atleast not with the limited knowledge and hardware which is at our disposal. The best option is an engine swap, which will cost you lesser and you can enjoy your car the very minute you turn the key on.
Bang on but a Turbo is a Turbo and done right is a killer .
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Old 7th August 2006, 18:50   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho
Bang on but a Turbo is a Turbo and done right is a killer .
Hey,

I agree but how many people have got it right. For the first 1-2 months after the install they will be making countless trips to their installer and spend only God knows how much trying to get it right. The installer will then blame it on lack of spending on stand alone ECU's etc and then get him to spend more and more.

The day we have access to a dyno and advanved electronics it will be a different ball game. Turbo's will still be and remain in reach for people with lots of time and cash to spend as for a proper setup with the right electronics to support the same anybody will have to install a minimum of 2 lacs(all new parts)

Last edited by viper : 7th August 2006 at 18:59.
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Old 7th August 2006, 18:52   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper
I agree but how many people have got it right. For the first 1-2 months after the install they will be making countless trips to their installer and spend onyl God knows how much trying to get it right.
That was the whole point as to why I brought up this matter in the first place.
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Old 7th August 2006, 18:59   #6
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Guys,I think we have hijacked this thread enough and might incur the wrath of the mods. So lets get back to the topic shall we ? Maybe we can start a different thread where we can do a comparison between engine swaps vs turbo charging. What say ?
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Old 7th August 2006, 19:16   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideways
Maybe we can start a different thread where we can do a comparison between engine swaps vs turbo charging. What say ?
An excellent idea. But lemme just get in a couple of pointers to start off with.

1) For a TC setup, you already HAVE the block to work on. Costs in terms of getting a new engine is saved here.

2) There's absolutely no guarantee that you're getting a genuine JDM or U.S mint/reconditioned engine (for the vee's/projects). Therefore, it again depends on the tuner's skill and experience to identify and setup the new engine.

3) Obtaining parts for an import, like thrust washers, conrod bearings, valve spring locks etc. are far more difficult, I presume. In case of our local engines, at least we can get them off the shelf, or at least availability is assured.

That being said, it would be great if we could weigh out the options, in terms of ease of tuning, parts availability, costs involved, etc. with respect to engine swaps and TC'ing. I know that TC'ing will probably never give the desired/required power increase (as opposed to an import), but still.

Last edited by ported_head : 7th August 2006 at 19:52.
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Old 7th August 2006, 19:18   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper
Hey,

I agree but how many people have got it right. For the first 1-2 months after the install they will be making countless trips to their installer and spend onyl God knows how much trying to get it right.
How many of the so called tuners in india do u think have got what they started off with right on the first attempt itself ?? Be it something as simple as calculating the header lengths , porting or polishing , throttle body enlargement etc etc .. Its either been outsourcing the work from a more renowned tuner or replicating it from an existing car done up by someone else .. I do know people who experiment with different parameters on THEIR OWN CARS before trying anything on their customers .. That said , the turbo scene is sure picking strides in india .. As we speak there is yet another TCed VTEC in town .. Yes , it will take time for our tuners to learn the art of TCing , but the wait will showcase better times to come .. So lets not discourage them .. Everyones got a learning curve ..

Swapping engines certainly seems to be the safer way out , but whom does the credit go to ?? The guy who sourced the engine ?? Or the shipper ?? Or the mech who bolts it on without even checking the status of the engine or the person who can afford to get all this done using his contacts .. Well anyways , by swapping engines one directly goes into the foreign open where in future we will be seeing the likes of supra's , EVO's and few custom made builds surfacing up capable of doing insane times .. That said , we welcome the change as we will have less competition in the indian scene ..

PS : No offense to anyone , but its quite saddening to see that FINALLY when some TCing craze is starting to catch up in INDIA a few still dont encourage it .. Call us plain lazy (ease of swaps , no hassle to tune like in case of TC) ...

Last edited by ported_head : 7th August 2006 at 19:53.
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Old 7th August 2006, 19:45   #9
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Exclamation More Power: Engine Swaps or Boosting..?

This thread is to weigh out the options between the 2 current hotspots going on in the Indian tuner scene; Turbocharging and Engine swapping.

Both have it's pros and cons. But which is better, in terms of:

A) Ease of tuning,
B) Cost-effectiveness,
C) Parts availability,
D) Practicality,
E) Cost-per-BHP/Nm (as in; which is more paisa vasool, and which will give you more smiles per mile), and finally,
F) Attaining most out of the chassis and gaining the least 1/4 mile times.

Let's do it then. Let the technical aspects and knowhow flow in.
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Old 7th August 2006, 19:59   #10
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Engine swaps: For
Easy provided you can source them

Engine swaps: Against
Dicey Handling most of the times, Chasis not up to the mark
No gaurantees on the engine without a rebuild
Not a company car

Turbos: For
Power and more so torque

Turbos: Against
Cost
Complications
Lack of knowledge with tuners
Too much electronics involved

As for costs it really depends on what on has planned.
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Old 7th August 2006, 20:16   #11
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@Psycho; As you said, the MAIN factor with boosting is the ignition control, A/F ratio, and engine management. In short, a heck of a lot of electronics involved. And little or no tuner expertise.

Let's take 2 likely competitors, displacement-wise. The Honda B18C and the Toyota 1.8 VVT. The Honda produces 210 bhp (at stratospheric R.P.M's- which means little torque and no practicality under 3000 R.P.M's), whereas the MR2 derivative produces 125. Boost it properly, and you're looking at more or less the same figures as the honda.

Now, the Honda makes for a drag-stomper. Reliability-wise, both are under identical stress, with the 'B' having a advantage because it's N.A. In terms of practicality, yes, the Toyota is going to score, since the B18C transplant will cause significant handling casualities because of the block's weight, etc.

NOW, given these two options, what would you prefer? I didn't pick the Skoda 1.8T because we usually pick the Japs over the Czechs.
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Old 7th August 2006, 20:31   #12
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I say, get a bloody B18 and then turbo it. Swap + Forced Induction = kick *** car.

Shan2nu
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Old 7th August 2006, 20:43   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu
I say, get a bloody B18 and then turbo it. Swap + Forced Induction = kick *** car.

Shan2nu
If i may ask shan , and on what would u put this engine on ?? A OHC ?? On a FWD ?? There are limitations to every car , i hope one realizes that .. Swap + FI = excess of 330 horses (at 14 psi ??) . I would love to see any OHC or any other car hold up that much .. Unless u have some secret brewing up for enhancing chassi strength , preventing the drive shafts from snapping , bending aprons do let me know .. I would love to send my car to u with immediate effect ..

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 7th August 2006 at 20:46.
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Old 7th August 2006, 20:47   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veyron1
NOW, given these two options, what would you prefer?
Personally would love the torque and the stock geometry of the car for great handling the bhp is added advantage.

However swaps are tempting too coz if I flip the question across to imagine in a well handling honda city with a B18 with a fully blown turbo vs. an MR2 with a fully blown turbo. I will have no cribs of shifting over to the b18 coz I end up with both good torque, phenomenal power and great handling.

And if we take another case like choosing between the options of swapping a b18 in a OHC and turbo'ing an Indian VTEC the costs of turbo'ing the Indian VTEC will be way lower than sourcing the b18 and fitting it in. So where would I go in that case, the Indian VTEC of course, however most probably with a severe limitation on reliability.

A better day to day example:
1) Buy a zen and plonk in a Twin Cam Block fully modded at about 170 horses odd. say cost is at 3.75 L total - Lag behind in Foriegn Open
1) Buy a zen and plonk in a Baleno Block fully modded at about 140 horses odd. say cost is at 3.25 L total - Lag behind in Indian Open
2) Buy a zen and plonk in a esteem Block fully modded at about 110 horses odd. say cost is 2.75 L total - Lag behind in the eZen class
3) Buy a zen and plonk in a esteem Block fully modded and a turbo at about 140 horses odd. cost 3.25 L total - Just about manage a podium finish in the eZen class
4) Buy a zen and rebuild the zen Block, fully modded and a turbo at about 110 horses odd. cost 2.75 L total - Whop out all compitition in the Zen class

Where would you go?

Hence please realise it is all on the perception where you want to be seen.

Last edited by Psycho : 7th August 2006 at 20:48.
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Old 7th August 2006, 21:07   #15
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@Psycho; Let's say we want a semi-reliable car that goes to the garage, say, once every 4-6 months, and can be used at the drags as well. Basically, what you're looking at, is minimal ET with maximum reliability, and overall acceptable handling. The choice becomes difficult then.

Out of the options that you've given, assuming that the costs include that of the donor car, my choice would be option 1. Irrespective of class, the 170 hp zen could put up early 13's. Easy. That's what I'm talking about.
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