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Old 21st November 2015, 11:11   #76
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Default Re: Reviving a dead Hyundai Santro - Restoration Thread

Great work vsaravind007 , closely watching the progress.


Slightly OT, Does anyone one know what is the highlighted sensor called? My Santro Zipdrive (1L) has developed a rough idle and when i unplug the connector to this sensor everything goes to normal. Visited the Hyundai service center (APCO) 3 times and they claim it has been cleaned & should be fine but rough idle develop after few KMs .
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Old 23rd November 2015, 19:10   #77
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Default Re: Reviving a dead Hyundai Santro - Restoration Thread

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Originally Posted by vvvinod View Post
Slightly OT, Does anyone one know what is the highlighted sensor called?
I assume it's throttle body.
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Old 24th November 2015, 15:29   #78
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Default Re: Reviving a dead Hyundai Santro - Restoration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by vvvinod View Post
Slightly OT, Does anyone one know what is the highlighted sensor called?
MAF sensor
Mass Air Flow sensor.
Get it properly cleaned. Google search, as how to properly clean the MAF sensor
Also get your spark plugs cleaned or replaced
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Old 24th November 2015, 17:27   #79
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Default Idle air bye-pass valve

Quote:
Originally Posted by vvvinod View Post
Slightly OT, Does anyone one know what is the highlighted sensor called? My Santro Zipdrive (1L) has developed a rough idle and when i unplug the connector to this sensor everything goes to normal. Visited the Hyundai service center (APCO) 3 times and they claim it has been cleaned & should be fine but rough idle develop after few KMs .
Quote:
Originally Posted by pavan_6818 View Post
I assume it's throttle body.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sushrutha View Post
MAF sensor
Mass Air Flow sensor.
Get it properly cleaned. Google search, as how to properly clean the MAF sensor
Also get your spark plugs cleaned or replaced
This is not a sensor. It is called an Idle air bye-pass valve. MPFI engines have this. After you close throttle, this valve lets in the air needed for the engine to stay at idle. A sticky or clogged valve could result in rough idle. Download a workshop manual of Hyundai Atos 1.1 from the net. You will get the right procedure to check this valve with a multimeter.
What engine speed you see in the tachometer after you disconnect this valve? Should be less than 800 or so. Did you ever fiddle with the throttle adjustment screw in the throttle body?

MAF sensor is mostly found in CRDI engines only. MPFI engines have TMAP (Temperature and Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor.

Last edited by ilangop : 24th November 2015 at 17:29.
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Old 24th November 2015, 20:47   #80
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilangop View Post
This is not a sensor. It is called an Idle air bye-pass valve. MPFI engines have this. After you close throttle, this valve lets in the air needed for the engine to stay at idle. A sticky or clogged valve could result in rough idle. Download a workshop manual of Hyundai Atos 1.1 from the net. You will get the right procedure to check this valve with a multimeter.
What engine speed you see in the tachometer after you disconnect this valve? Should be less than 800 or so. Did you ever fiddle with the throttle adjustment screw in the throttle body?

MAF sensor is mostly found in CRDI engines only. MPFI engines have TMAP (Temperature and Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor.
Thanks ilangop! Sprak plug Changed, Cable changed, even Distributor changed.Hyundai Service Adviser has no clue what is wrong. They confirmed that they have cleaned the highlighted portion of the censor.They dont even have scanner to check the error code :(. Its 1.0 Santro ZipDrive so no Tacho to check RPM diff, but the moment i unplug the wire connected to the censor, everything looks normal, else it behave upon its mood, sometime it simply raise as if somebody pressed on gas pedal. i have not found a pattern yet, it can happen at cold start, while running after few KMs, waiting in the traffic signal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushrutha View Post
MAF sensor
Mass Air Flow sensor.
Get it properly cleaned. Google search, as how to properly clean the MAF sensor
Also get your spark plugs cleaned or replaced
Thanks for the response sushrutha! SA said they cleaned the censors

Last edited by ampere : 24th November 2015 at 21:34. Reason: Back to back posts merged
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Old 26th November 2015, 23:16   #81
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Default Re: Reviving a dead Hyundai Santro - Restoration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by vvvinod View Post
Great work vsaravind007 , closely watching the progress.


Slightly OT, Does anyone one know what is the highlighted sensor called? My Santro Zipdrive (1L) has developed a rough idle and when i unplug the connector to this sensor everything goes to normal. Visited the Hyundai service center (APCO) 3 times and they claim it has been cleaned & should be fine but rough idle develop after few KMs .
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilangop View Post
This is not a sensor. It is called an Idle air bye-pass valve. MPFI engines have this. After you close throttle, this valve lets in the air needed for the engine to stay at idle. A sticky or clogged valve could result in rough idle. Download a workshop manual of Hyundai Atos 1.1 from the net. You will get the right procedure to check this valve with a multimeter.
What engine speed you see in the tachometer after you disconnect this valve? Should be less than 800 or so. Did you ever fiddle with the throttle adjustment screw in the throttle body?

MAF sensor is mostly found in CRDI engines only. MPFI engines have TMAP (Temperature and Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvvinod View Post
Thanks ilangop! Sprak plug Changed, Cable changed, even Distributor changed.Hyundai Service Adviser has no clue what is wrong. They confirmed that they have cleaned the highlighted portion of the censor.They dont even have scanner to check the error code :(. Its 1.0 Santro ZipDrive so no Tacho to check RPM diff, but the moment i unplug the wire connected to the censor, everything looks normal, else it behave upon its mood, sometime it simply raise as if somebody pressed on gas pedal. i have not found a pattern yet, it can happen at cold start, while running after few KMs, waiting in the traffic signal.



Thanks for the response sushrutha! SA said they cleaned the censors
Hi vvvinod, ilangop is right! This isn't a sensor, its an Idle Air Control Actuator (IAC), its essentially a valve that controls the amount of air that goes into the manifold when the engine is idling. It is responsible for the engine speed when the throttle is completely closed.

In your particular case, i dont think that the actuator is dead, since everything goes back to normal it seems when you disconnect it - means the ECU is trying to control the IAC actuator & its working (since you're noticing unusual idling, it means that the IAC actuator is working fine according to the ECU's instructions) even when there is no reason to do so. I believe there is something deep beneath. The ECU is trying to adjust the RPM because of false reading(s) from other sensors. Sometimes the ECU adjusts the IAC actuator when there is a need for it, like when you turn on the AC while the car is idling. Maybe the RPM sensor is dead. I can assure you one thing, leaving the IAC actuator disconnected wont do any harm to the car! But the idle speed can be a bit high!
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Old 30th November 2015, 14:32   #82
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Default Re: Reviving a dead Hyundai Santro - Restoration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by vvvinod
it behave upon its mood, sometime it simply raise as if somebody pressed on gas pedal. i have not found a pattern yet, it can happen at cold start, while running after few KMs, waiting in the traffic signal.
I have the same problem with mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsaravind007
Maybe the RPM sensor is dead. I can assure you one thing, leaving the IAC actuator disconnected wont do any harm to the car! But the idle speed can be a bit high!
Do we have to replace the RPM sensor to get rid of this? what would be the cost involved? Will there be any issues later if I don't fix it!

I am using the car for more than a year with the same problem, will it cause any damage?

Appreciate your help here.
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Old 4th December 2015, 21:17   #83
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Default Re: Reviving a dead Hyundai Santro - Restoration Thread

Awesome job Just a query, how can you use a donor shell, won't the chassis number change? It has to be endorsed in RC right?
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Old 7th December 2015, 17:17   #84
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Default Re: Reviving a dead Hyundai Santro - Restoration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by pavan_6818 View Post
I have the same problem with mine.

Do we have to replace the RPM sensor to get rid of this? what would be the cost involved? Will there be any issues later if I don't fix it!

I am using the car for more than a year with the same problem, will it cause any damage?

Appreciate your help here.
Hi pavan_6818, I'm not 100% sure about the RPM sensor, but it is the most probable one as the ECU calculates the amount of air/fuel to let in during idling. I don't think leaving the problem unattended will cause any damage to the engine apart from uneven/rough idling or engine not holding idle speed (if you try disconnecting the ISA, on a perfectly ok engine, you'll find that the engine will die off or the RPM will climb).

Quote:
Originally Posted by nim_peter View Post
Awesome job Just a query, how can you use a donor shell, won't the chassis number change? It has to be endorsed in RC right?
Thank you nim_peter and you're right, santro is a monocoque car, its chassis number is engraved onto the body. Thats why we're keeping the front portion(parts of the firewall & the windshield area) containing the chassis number as is, and welding the rest of the new body to the old one. We don't know if thats the right way to proceed. But its more convenient. The new body is red in color, we'll be changing it to white.

Update
They've completed the welding!
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Old 7th December 2015, 22:08   #85
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Default Re: Reviving a dead Hyundai Santro - Restoration Thread

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Originally Posted by vsaravind007 View Post
Thank you nim_peter and you're right, santro is a monocoque car, its chassis number is engraved onto the body. Thats why we're keeping the front portion(parts of the firewall & the windshield area) containing the chassis number as is, and welding the rest of the new body to the old one. We don't know if thats the right way to proceed. But its more convenient. The new body is red in color, we'll be changing it to white.
So you'll be welding two halves, each from different cars ? Might need some some reinforcements to the chassis. In my car, the chassis number is engraved under the front seats, so these things are not possible.
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Old 18th December 2015, 20:01   #86
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Default Re: Reviving a dead Hyundai Santro - Restoration Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsaravind007 View Post
Hi vvvinod, ilangop is right! This isn't a sensor, its an Idle Air Control Actuator (IAC), its essentially a valve that controls the amount of air that goes into the manifold when the engine is idling. It is responsible for the engine speed when the throttle is completely closed.

In your particular case, i dont think that the actuator is dead, since everything goes back to normal it seems when you disconnect it - means the ECU is trying to control the IAC actuator & its working (since you're noticing unusual idling, it means that the IAC actuator is working fine according to the ECU's instructions) even when there is no reason to do so. I believe there is something deep beneath. The ECU is trying to adjust the RPM because of false reading(s) from other sensors. Sometimes the ECU adjusts the IAC actuator when there is a need for it, like when you turn on the AC while the car is idling. Maybe the RPM sensor is dead. I can assure you one thing, leaving the IAC actuator disconnected wont do any harm to the car! But the idle speed can be a bit high!
Thanks for the feedback vsaravind007! I have secured the IAC connector Wiring Harness with Adhesive Cloth Tape and its behaving properly now ( at least for the last 40KM)

But my major problem still persist with the car, When i turn the steering to full right or left or while using power window at idle Engine almost stalls ( or losing power significantly ), I feel loss of power is causing it. Since Hyundai Service folks said there was a missing which has been fixed by Changing, Spark, plug, HT wire and Distributor (a used one from same model i sourced from a Friend's workshop). But they are not ready to give me a report of the same from scan tool since the one they have wont support 2002 Santro. To avoid Engine stalling HASC increased the slow running and disposed the vehicle saying issue fixed. Yesterday I went Hometown again and there is difference in the performance. Thought of googling a bit and trying something myself since HASC charged me 7K in last two services for same issue in less than 5 months without any result. First i checked the spark on Coil side everything looks fine, tried the spark on HT wire for all cables no issue found, Connected the wire to each spark plug and tested the sparks everything seems to be fine. Finally i want to check each cylinder performance and started removing the the HT cable from 1 cylinder at a time and found significant power loss for 3 but the last one. Left most one connected with longest wire didn't show any difference. Now i am pretty sure that one of my Cylinder is not firing ( i had another set of HT cable i used that wire with no + result) . Now i don't know the cylinder lost compression or i have a faulty injector on that specific cylinder or have a issue with timing or rocker arm, I can see quite a bit of carbon coming out of ex-host now with some water or liquid (i learned all these jargon's recently while researching ) So if any of you worked on mechanical side can help me here> i am planning to take the vehicle to my Friends workshop (since i doubt the competitiveness of my HASC folks ) after X-MAS and decided not to use Vehicle until further inspection.

Last edited by vvvinod : 18th December 2015 at 20:05.
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Old 18th December 2015, 20:55   #87
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Default Re: Reviving a dead Hyundai Santro - Restoration Thread

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Originally Posted by vvvinod View Post
Finally i want to check each cylinder performance and started removing the the HT cable from 1 cylinder at a time and found significant power loss for 3 but the last one. Left most one connected with longest wire didn't show any difference.
Check this (last) cylinder, plugs (swap them), coils. Not mentioning wire since you mention its already done. Check valve spring also.

Next would be to check the compression of this cylinder, if the above swaps don't help. That should give you some clue to the issue.
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Old 20th December 2015, 10:31   #88
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Default Re: Reviving a dead Hyundai Santro - Restoration Thread

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Check this (last) cylinder, plugs (swap them), coils. Not mentioning wire since you mention its already done. Check valve spring also.

Next would be to check the compression of this cylinder, if the above swaps don't help. That should give you some clue to the issue.
Thank you Jaggu! . I have replaced the plugs too with no result from no 1 cylinder. Since no 1 cylinder is not functioning , i don't know if the workshop messed with firing order or not, i need to find the distributor output for no 1 cylinder for checking 1342 firing order. i am also thinking of removing the injector connection for no 1 cylinder and run with 3 cylinders rather than sending unburned fuel to ex-host and destroying the catalyst until i take the car to workshop.
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Old 20th December 2015, 21:52   #89
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Default Re: Reviving a dead Hyundai Santro - Restoration Thread

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i am also thinking of removing the injector connection for no 1 cylinder and run with 3 cylinders rather than sending unburned fuel to ex-host and destroying the catalyst until i take the car to workshop.
It might be injector too. Take it to a good dealer or workshop, instead of further experimenting. Why do you want to take chances if the car is ok otherwise?
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Old 20th December 2015, 22:39   #90
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Default Re: Reviving a dead Hyundai Santro - Restoration Thread

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There has been an issue of irregular idling rpm of late, and the SA has 'ISA valve' change, for which he quoted INR ~11k. Nothing urgent, though better to be replaced according to him. Any thoughts, fellow BHPians?
Posting from the Repair vs Selling thread.

Had given my 10 year, 79k km old Xing for service last week. The only issues I had to report were some electrical issues and an irregularly low idling rpm. The SA told me that the 'ISA valve' is the culprit and that it needs to be changed at the earliest, though they've adjusted it temporarily. However, the low idling rpm issue is persisting. He quoted around INR 11k for the same, which worried me a bit.

Should I go ahead and change it as part of preventive maintenance?
Will this lead to any other issues in the future?
Apart from the low idling rpm, the car runs very well! Kindly share your thoughts.

PS: Apologies to Aravind for hijacking the thread, but couldn't find a better place to post my query. Thanks!

Last edited by Geo_Ipe : 20th December 2015 at 22:41. Reason: adding PS
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