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Old 23rd January 2016, 14:57   #1
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Default XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem

Orange Cheetah Gets Improved Night Vision!

After a lot of deliberation, myself and Sunay (@fusionbang) took decision to setup HIDs for low beam. The reason we went or this is -
  • Low Beams have projectors already. Setting up HID bulbs would be easy without any issues
  • Any HID setup without projectors will not be focused light and the scattered rays would blind the oncoming traffic. A safety hazard it will be.
  • We decided to go for 35W, 4300 K lights. 55W would be overkill and not really sure about how the headlights contain the heat from 55W bulbs.
  • Options considered - many. But all the searches, suggestions zero down to these - Osram, Philips and P8 HID Kits.
  • Our investigation revealed that many places setup the philips and osram kits but not very sure about warranty/ claims processing. Everyone says its good product but when it comes to claims and warranty, some of the distributors don’t guarantee replacements. Also to avoid the fake things, one needs to take utmost care. So for the options we chose (P8) Satya confirmed the continued support from his side as well as P8 as manufacturer!

Based on my earlier experience of SX4 HID Setup (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...tors-drls.html (SX4 undergoes Eye Surgery - FXR Stage 4 Projectors and DRLs)), my obvious choice was EVO - Satya (http://www.evo-blr.com/index.html). Prior to reaching out to Satya, we did visit many other places independently and did not feel any confidence in any of the setups. Satya was moe forthcoming and open to explanations, discussions and price of course! Based o the experience on SX4, Satya’s recommendation, we decided to go for P8 HID kits. The total cost of kit, setup was Rs. 8000 each car. We could have also ordered the kits from online sources and worked with some technicians to get this fitted. But that is again leaving us on our own to manage after install things like bulb issues or ballast issues if at all any. Moreover, we don't think we are yet ready to do a DIY for such an important thing

A quick WhatsApp message on Friday noon confirmed our work to be executed first thing on Saturday. So here is myself and Sunay reached to EVO by 11.15am!

XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem-carsatevo.jpg

Parked side by side, both cars were ready to be setup with HIDs. We actually opened the bonnet and waited for 15-20 minutes to let engine compartment cool off relatively to avoid burning hands while fitting.

XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem-carsreadyforhid.jpg

The XUV engine compartment is so jam-packed, there is hardly any space to peek inside! Replacing the bulbs is a daunting task therefore! For right side, low beam replacement is easy while high beam needs the coolant tank to be loosened and moved out of way to reach to the bulb holder. The left side is easy to replace the high beam while low beam needs a lot of exercise due to battery blocking the access. So we had removed the battery (out of car), removed the coolant tank out of way (not completely) and set everything ready to fit HIDs.

The P8 Kits comes with two ballasts and two bulbs - 35W, 4300 K lumens light.

XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem-p8xenonhidkit.jpg
XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem-ballatsboxopen.jpg
XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem-hidbulbs.jpg
XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem-hidbulbsboxopen.jpg

The important things to note - the stock wiring stays inside the headlight and now of the sockets, wires hang out. but since now we are inserting the ballasts between the light socket and switch, we need to cut the plastic covers that cover the sockets in the rear of headlights. The HID kit comes with nice two layered rubber bushing. So when we cut these covers, the rubber bushes nicely fits and ensures no steam/ water/ dust goes inside.

XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem-bulbrearcover.jpg
XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem-rubberbushcut.jpg
XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem-rubbercovercut.jpg
XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem-rubberbush.jpg

When fitted the rubber bushes, this is how it covers -
XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem-afterfittinghidbulbs.jpg

And the next important thing is to keep ballasts at such a place so that it does not come in way for regular servicing/ maintenance tasks in the engine compartments. So here they go and hide nicely with plastic ties. The lack of space on the battery side, we chose to stick it on the cover of fusebox with enough wire play to be able to remove/ fit fusebox cover in future.

XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem-coolanttanklooseopen.jpg
XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem-lowbeambulbsocketrear.jpg
XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem-ballasttiedwithties.jpg
XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem-batterysideballastwireplay.jpg
XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem-leftballastfusebox.jpg
XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem-rightballast.jpg

And this entire setup is done in less than hour on both the cars simultaneously!

Sunay is on the road this evening and should get the pictures of new setup while I will do that tomorrow and post back early next week!

While doing this, I moved the Philips XtremeVision bulbs from existing low beam into the high beam! So now Orange Cheetah has HID 35W P8 Kit with 4300K bulbs in Low Beam, high beam with Philips XtremeVision 130% bulbs and Fogs stay stock as is!

Stay tuned for the actual pictures with snaps of old setup from earlier posts and new ones. Sunay shall post his light setup/ throw soon on his ownership thread here and we will cross link it for everyone understanding.

Last edited by abirnale : 23rd January 2016 at 15:02.
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Old 24th January 2016, 07:22   #2
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Default Re: My Orange Cheetah, 2015 Mahindra XUV5OO W10 FWD Ownership Experience

While everything seems to be going well, we have couple of self created niggles!
See the pictures below - Light beam from Sunay's XUV -

XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem-sunaybeam.jpg

Light pattern from my car -

XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem-mybeam.jpg

The two lines/ shadow you see is due to this thing -

XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem-shado.jpg
XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem-shadowonhand.jpg

Apparently it seems like the bulb isn't put at exact focal point inside projector where it belongs. Either little inside or outside. The tip of the HID bulb has a small circular filament/ wire and a parallel running wire across the length. That is what creating the tiny shadow which will translate into that funny shadow in the beam on the road. So a problem of beam/ focus. Seems like fixable issue and nothing wrong with the kit. flip-side is, we have to go one more time to have this fixed.

Another self created niggle is - I switched the Philips XtremeVision bulbs into the high beam. While fitting, the LHS bulb isn't aligned well. This makes the bulb throw the beam to where fog lamp is This means I have to get that fixed too.

Moral of the story - light work should always be done at the dusk so that you can test it well and then leave. During the day, we couldn't notice all these small things.

Due to this effect, we were kind of nervous! And that showed everywhere until we figured out the issue. And to do this, we learned things hard way. More on that later. one thing is for sure, whoever designed the XUV's engine compartment must be insanely over-engineering fellow! There is nothing inside the engine compartment easily accessible! I wonder how a owner can change the bulb himself/ herself if anything goes wrong! Almost impossible!

Last edited by abirnale : 24th January 2016 at 07:25.
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Old 24th January 2016, 14:35   #3
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Default Re: My Orange Cheetah, 2015 Mahindra XUV5OO W10 FWD Ownership Experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by abirnale View Post
... The total cost of kit, setup was Rs. 8000 each car....
How much would the bulbs alone cost? Also, can we buy a single bulb when required or it has to be bought in pairs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abirnale View Post
... While doing this, I moved the Philips XtremeVision bulbs from existing low beam into the high beam! ...
Does both of them (low & high beams) have the same spec? I thought it's usually H1 & H7 when the headlights have dual bulbs.
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Old 24th January 2016, 15:48   #4
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Default Re: My Orange Cheetah, 2015 Mahindra XUV5OO W10 FWD Ownership Experience

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Does both of them (low & high beams) have the same spec? I thought it's usually H1 & H7 when the headlights have dual bulbs.
Actually yes, when it is dual barrel headlamps, one is H1 and the H7 but in case of the XUV both are H7 with 55W rating.
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Old 24th January 2016, 18:56   #5
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Default Re: My Orange Cheetah, 2015 Mahindra XUV5OO W10 FWD Ownership Experience

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
How much would the bulbs alone cost? Also, can we buy a single bulb when required or it has to be bought in pairs?
Bulbs alone cost 4000/- for a pair. You will not be able to procure a single bulb for this. Probably there might be some aftermarket options where you can buy individual bulbs which I am not sure.
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Old 27th January 2016, 12:42   #6
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Default Re: My Orange Cheetah, 2015 Mahindra XUV5OO W10 FWD Ownership Experience

Some very important updates: Today I spent 4 hours working with technicians to resolve many things. Here is a dump of the things, details will follow soon.

Lights Issue - High Beam
While I shifted the Philips XtremeVision bulbs from low beam to high beam at the time of HID upgrade, the high beam bulb was fitted wrongly. It was upside down and hence the beam was scattered. A technician at Sireesh Singasandra helped with it. He showed what was wrong and how to fit it right. Also watched the leveling techniques for all beams and the "secret screws" (I never knew it, hence secret!) to use to fine tune lights.

Lights Issue - Low Beam/ HID
The shadow issue is something very strange and should not be there. The Technician checked the things and he confirmed that bulbs are right, fitting is right but something wrong with the bulbs themselves. There are many people who have done similar setups and never had this shadow. He could not recall the kits used or give any reference to such work though. So Now I am waiting for Satya (EVO) to revert back with answers to this question - why the shadow. Meanwhile, this technician will also revert back to me if he spots another car with HID setup.

Sunay has reached out to some more people and Tbhpians who have done similar setup so that we can check/ cross confirm the setup/ exchange bulbs and try. Stay tuned on this update.

Hard Wiring Dashcam
On the way back, I took the detour to visit the Sireesh showroom to pick a car cover and see if they can hard wire dashcam. It turned out to be a pleasant thing - we did it! For Rs 500, a technician used my spare fuse tap cable and connected the dashcam nicely with an extra 12v socket. A detailed post is to follow this week on it. I must tell you that this job was done with precision and utmost care. Removal of various plastic panels, making nice room for work, fitting it back nicely and ensuring that the grounding is done well, connections are sealed properly, wherever required application of plastic ties, keeping enough room for wire-play, not to hamper any other operations! Phew, too much but finally did it! Took around 1 hour. I will be testing this setup continuously and keep an eye for anything unwanted to be fixed if at all. Because you can never be 100% sure of everything

Sun Films
With multiple trips on highway and specifically with warmer areas, upcoming summer, I chose to apply the sun-film finally. ideally they are with 75% visibility and 70% heat resistant. But with Bangalore Traffic Police, anything can be illegal. I am still taking a dig at it with a chance of Rs 9350! I suffer more due to heat and I must do something about it - AC alone is not sufficient.

Stuck with a lot of personal and work things hence, stay tuned for more detailed updates on the above points
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Old 29th January 2016, 12:52   #7
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Default Re: My Orange Cheetah, 2015 Mahindra XUV5OO W10 FWD Ownership Experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by abirnale View Post
Orange Cheetah Gets Improved Night Vision!
[*]We decided to go for 35W, 4300 K lights. 55W would be overkill and not really sure about how the headlights contain the heat from 55W bulbs.
The P8 Kits comes with two ballasts and two bulbs - 35W, 4300 K lumens light.
Hi Abirnale,

2 questions here.

1. Talking about the heat that 55W may produce, will it produce more heat than 55W halogen bulbs.

2. Did you sort out the dark lines issue on your new HIDs.

I am getting a 55W - 4300K P8 HIDs for my 2012 W8. Very curious to learn from you.
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Old 29th January 2016, 13:04   #8
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Default Re: My Orange Cheetah, 2015 Mahindra XUV5OO W10 FWD Ownership Experience

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Originally Posted by peterjim13 View Post
2 questions here.
1
Nope. The HIDs generate much lesser heat than halogen, Wattage to Wattage comparison IMO.

2
Not yet.

This cannot be XUV specific issue since the setup on both cars (new gen, old gen) has same results. Also some folks who have other XS Performance or Osram or Philips Kits have never reported any such issues. This points us in the direction that it has to be either P8 specific Kit issue or faulty HID bulbs.

The reason I posted this question on Auto Lighting thread is to solicit feedback from anyone who has XUV and done P8 kit successfully. If I find any, it will point to Bulbs being faulty or this specific batch of kits we took would be faulty.

Thus, we have already eliminated possibilities of XUV headlights being faulty, Kit fitting to be faulty. Only areas to confirm - P8 feasibility, bulb fault.

So I suggest unless we sort this out, don't buy P8 kit.
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Old 29th January 2016, 13:16   #9
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Default Re: My Orange Cheetah, 2015 Mahindra XUV5OO W10 FWD Ownership Experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by abirnale View Post
1
Nope. The HIDs generate much lesser heat than halogen, Wattage to Wattage comparison IMO...

...So I suggest unless we sort this out, don't buy P8 kit.
Noted Abirnale.

My planned purchase/fitment is by Feb mid or later.
Shall wait to hear about your update on the same.

Thanks so much

Last edited by suhaas307 : 29th January 2016 at 17:51. Reason: Please avoid quoting the entire post as it may inconvenience small-screen / mobile users. Thanks. :)
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Old 1st February 2016, 13:03   #10
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Default Re: My Orange Cheetah, 2015 Mahindra XUV5OO W10 FWD Ownership Experience

Hi abirnale,loved going through your ownership report. Neatly documented and wonderfully presented, No doubt it'll help all the current and future owners of XUV500. Nice choice of car color as well.
Regarding your HID setup, do you think the upgrade was worth it? Is that shadow problem solved? I am looking to add HID projectors to my Punto. Thanks
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Old 1st February 2016, 15:25   #11
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Default Re: My Orange Cheetah, 2015 Mahindra XUV5OO W10 FWD Ownership Experience

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Originally Posted by CarMaster View Post
Regarding your HID setup, do you think the upgrade was worth it? Is that shadow problem solved? I am looking to add HID projectors to my Punto. Thanks
Thank you

The HID upgrade is totally worth it. But this shadow problem is getting onto my nerves now. Neither Satya, nor anyone else is able to pinpoint to the root cause and hence no solution! Now I am writing to the P8 - Amritras India customer support. Lets see if this yields any results -

Quote:
Hello there,

I am reaching out to you to point out a peculiar problem with the P8 HID kit setup in my car. A friend of mine and me took our XUVs to a known automotive shop in Bangalore to setup HID. After the setup was done, we have started seeing black shadow on the road which seems to be coming from the ground wire of the bulb. The store claims that the fitting is done well and there is no issues but we continue to see this annoying black shadow. We are not sure what the issue is. There are many XUV owners who have fitted similar HID kits and have not faced any issues but us with this P8 Kit are facing this.

It would be greatly helpful if you can help resolve this issue. For more detailed images and explanation of the fitting, please read this - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post3897055 Also attached actual shadow images for your reference.

Eagerly awaiting your response.

Thanks!
Meanwhile, Sunay is chasing Satya to get another replacement bulb to try out on his car. Not sure if it can help, but we are leaving no stone unturned to resolve this!
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Old 1st February 2016, 17:59   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abirnale View Post

Thank you

The HID upgrade is totally worth it. But this shadow problem is getting onto my nerves now!
I can totally understand the frustration.


I did show it to a accessory installer and he asked me to insure with Mahindra if the projector is designed for HID?

He may be wrong but just a pointer. Can you ask the service centre for compatability?
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Old 1st February 2016, 22:29   #13
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Default Re: My Orange Cheetah, 2015 Mahindra XUV5OO W10 FWD Ownership Experience

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
I did show it to a accessory installer and he asked me to insure with Mahindra if the projector is designed for HID?
A typical service centre answer - no comments/ no idea! My RM/ SA says he is not sure about it. But the friends say they have done it on their cars - old gen, different kits. @VellVector said he has a new gen XUV as well in his factory and that has XS performance HID kit. It works well. his very own XUV old gen has similar XS kit. Works well. So we are totally confused. But it is very much possible that the projectors may not have been made for HIDs but just halogens.

Today Sunay took the car back to Satya and they tried some other HID kit from Hawk. No change, same result. I had tried a Chinese kit from @Sunnyboi, same result, no change.

So the last option now is - Try Osram or Philips bulbs with same P8 ballasts and see if that works. Else source the exact same XS kit from an overseas source and get it fitted.

Or the easy way out - revert to stock halogens. Someday buy a Hella Rally lights. I hate anything that is external to the body but there has to be more light on single lane roads at night to find our way out of oncoming glare.

Frankly speaking, little short of reaching the point of frustration on this thing
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Old 2nd February 2016, 00:50   #14
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Default Re: My Orange Cheetah, 2015 Mahindra XUV5OO W10 FWD Ownership Experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by abirnale View Post
It works well. his very own XUV old gen has similar XS kit.
IMO the P8 kit could be the culprit I guess as Sunay has the older gen XUV so the HID should have been functioning well there but it isn't the case (May be)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by abirnale View Post
But it is very much possible that the projectors may not have been made for HIDs but just halogens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusionbang View Post
......
I have my doubts on the issue you both are facing:

----- Issue with the P8 kit.

I was re-looking at the images posted, in the page 12, post 177 - Light throw on OEM's where the bulbs were halogen and I see no shadow in them whereas after the P8 kit has come in the shadow appears.

I was browing another forum (The Automotive India) and I found an XUV, the guy did a HID install in the older generation but the bulbs used aren't P8 though and the beam pattern is normal. Some generic HID kit. Look here - TAI

OEM Halogens vs the P8 kit in both the cars
XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem-h7-halogen-oemhorz.jpg

See the yellow rectangle that I have marked
XUV500 with HID setup - And a shadow problem-8vert.jpg
PS: Top image in this above pic is taken from TAI website.

In the second picture the yellow rectangle that I have marked is what I feel is creating that shadow. Look at the shadow falling on your arm in that very same picture!
  • Now what I suggest is, get another set of P8 HID bulbs and retry. If it succeeds then good enough.

    OR

  • Get some other HID bulbs by Osram or Philips and reinstall. You'll get an answer for the issues being faced.

PPS: The analysis I have done could be wrong too but this is what appeared in my head after looking at the images added.

Last edited by a4anurag : 2nd February 2016 at 00:52.
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Old 2nd February 2016, 09:27   #15
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Default Re: My Orange Cheetah, 2015 Mahindra XUV5OO W10 FWD Ownership Experience

Thanks Anurag for detailed analysis. You are right that the ground wire you see on the tip of the bulb is what causing the shadow. We tried fitting it such that the brown wire stays at 6o clock position or 12 o clock position. At 6 o clock position, the shadow disappears but light is very very limited. At 12 o clock the shadow stays which is default setup of this HID kit.

We have tried with two different kind of bulbs and results are no different. The last check due - if I can source a Philips and an Osram HID bulb each to try with this setup so as to conclude the bulb to be faulty if at all.
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