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Old 8th May 2016, 20:46   #91
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Default Re: Bad Experience - Code 6 Tuning, Bangalore

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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
They do exist just probably not in India to any great extent - most of them are the in-house or close cooperation tuning firms which have some relationship with the manufacturer - M, AMG, Alpina, Brabus, Polestar, Nismo, Mugen, Heico et al.

These guys do their homework as they have the budget and pretty much always deliver on their promise. Least to say, their parts and remaps are anything but cheap. However, the quality of the tune and parts makes these worth the money IMHO over the 99% of the fly by night operators we see in India.
AMG, M, RS etc aren't tuners. They are performance divisions. You won't find them connecting a laptop to your car while you take runs down Nice Road or any other road to check whether the hack they've done is going to blow your engine.

Their cars are sold and invoiced as new just like the regular BMW's or Mercs and come with a 4 year warranty. And will not be remapped by them.

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Originally Posted by swiftdiesel View Post

Your discussion on Hyundai 1.1 CRDi having a FGT has no information whatsoever, anywhere on the internet
Grand i10 has a FGT - Hyundai refers to it as WGT - Waste Gate Turbo.

Last edited by VeyronSuperSprt : 8th May 2016 at 20:54.
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Old 8th May 2016, 20:54   #92
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Default Re: Bad Experience - Code 6 Tuning, Bangalore

& I always thought waste gate means variable geometry because the valve keeps on adjusting.
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Old 8th May 2016, 21:02   #93
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Default Re: Bad Experience - Code 6 Tuning, Bangalore

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Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
AMG, M, RS etc aren't tuners. They are performance divisions. You won't find them connecting a laptop to your car while you take runs down Nice Road or any other road to check whether the hack they've done is going to blow your engine.

Their cars are sold and invoiced as new just like the regular BMW's or Mercs and come with a 4 year warranty.

And surprisingly, they won't agree to remap your car even if you promise to buy them some coffee.



Grand i10 has a FGT - Hyundai refers to it as WGT - Waste Gate Turbo.

M and Amg both started off as tuners which later got bought out by the manufacturer and M even offers a performance package for many bimmers. There was one for the 320d not so long ago that upped the performance by around 25 hp that is fitted by the dealer. They also have a complete catalog of performance parts in most of Europe and the US.

They do obviously have custom cars now but both started their lives selling humble mods for BMWs and Mercs respectively. Polestar - Volvo's high performance brand started independently building race cars and was bought out by Volvo last year. They offer a remap for all Volvo cars and now even have their line of higher performance cars. Manufacturer allowed maps are the easiest way to more power unlike most of these clueless third party tuning houses.

Last edited by reignofchaos : 8th May 2016 at 21:05.
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Old 8th May 2016, 21:34   #94
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Default Re: Bad Experience - Code 6 Tuning, Bangalore

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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
M and Amg both started off as tuners which later got bought out by the manufacturer
AMG started as a tuning house which later got bought out by Merc but with more serious intentions than remaps because remaps didn't exist at that point in time.

M, on the other hand, was always BMW's in-house division started when BMW hijacked Ford's Motorsport head.
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Old 9th May 2016, 10:35   #95
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Default Re: Bad Experience - Code 6 Tuning, Bangalore

Update

I am getting messages in FB/WhatsApp etc from guys who had issues/bad experience with Code 6. I will post the details here once I get the consent. Also if anyone who wants to share anything similar and not able to post here can email to share@team-bhp.com with adequate proof.

Cheers!!

Last edited by Dr.Naren : 9th May 2016 at 10:36.
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Old 9th May 2016, 10:39   #96
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Default Re: Bad Experience - Code 6 Tuning, Bangalore

after reading up a bit on this yesterday, it is now obvious to me that Hyundai has done another cheap number on the Indian customers.

the 1.1 U2 3 Cyl CRDI engine which serves in Kia Picanto and i10 abroad come with proper VGT.
In the last page of this file, it is clearly mentioned what kind of setup 1.1 U2 CRDI is supposed to run with. http://www.hyundaiengine.com/data/ENGINE%20CATALOG.pdf

In India though to save bux and that too in a high volume low-rent car (in eyes of Hyundai India) they have done away with VGT and installed a *wastegate turbocharger* aka FGT which is electronically controlled in XCent and has some kind of ECU control in i10. Maybe they saved 20K bux per car in this process. And made better profits for themselves. Kia Picanto diesel makes 76ps and in India the same diesel engine on i10 makes 71ps.

It's kind of pathetic and low-rent tactics on part of Hyundai to make such sly changes and who knows where else they have compromised. Tooners will have to do some work on this engine because this setup is only sold in India, you cannot just copy i10 U2 diesel stock map from abroad and paste parts of this in this version. Not going to work. Neither will i20 diesel map work.
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Old 9th May 2016, 10:49   #97
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Default Re: Bad Experience - Code 6 Tuning, Bangalore

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Originally Posted by lurker View Post
after reading up a bit on this yesterday, it is now obvious to me that Hyundai has done another cheap number on the Indian customers.

the 1.1 U2 3 Cyl CRDI engine which serves in Kia Picanto and i10 abroad come with proper VGT.
In the last page of this file, it is clearly mentioned what kind of setup 1.1 U2 CRDI is supposed to run with. http://www.hyundaiengine.com/data/ENGINE%20CATALOG.pdf

In India though to save bux and that too in a high volume low-rent car (in eyes of Hyundai India) they have done away with VGT and installed a *wastegate turbocharger* aka FGT which is electronically controlled in XCent and has some kind of ECU control in i10. Maybe they saved 20K bux per car in this process. And made better profits for themselves. Kia Picanto diesel makes 76ps and in India the same diesel engine on i10 makes 71ps.

It's kind of pathetic and low-rent tactics on part of Hyundai to make such sly changes and who knows where else they have compromised. Tooners will have to do some work on this engine because this setup is only sold in India, you cannot just copy i10 U2 diesel stock map from abroad and paste parts of this in this version. Not going to work. Neither will i20 diesel map work.
I second that buddy. This is the only reason I did not make a big deal about tuner not knowing about the turbo. Simple google search will say "VGT". I know it is duty of any tuner to do his homework well before working on any car and sadly this was not done in my case. Actually there is no rocket science involved to remap Grand i10. It was a lame comment by Sajan that "Nobody has good remap for Grand i10 in India". Any tuner can remap this car. It is a simple FGT turbo and needs to play around with fuel maps in ECU for power gain. Remap process for grand i10 should be almost similar as Swift (it too has FGT without ECU control)
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Old 9th May 2016, 11:29   #98
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Default Re: Bad Experience - Code 6 Tuning, Bangalore

Quote:
Any tuner can remap this car. It is a simple FGT turbo and needs to play around with fuel maps in ECU for power gain. Remap process for grand i10 should be almost similar as Swift (it too has FGT without ECU control)
Dear Dr. it is not simple, the wastegate is constantly being adjusted in both i10 Grand and Xcent. In former the ECU controls it (my understanding) and in latter it is controlled by seperate dedicated module. Tuner needs to put in considerable work for marginal returns in power. Considering that fact that someone mentioned the tuner already has a day job. This may not be feasible that he dedicate the time for this endeavour.

Swift FGT is same as 1.3 mjd punto FGT. There are maps aplenty for that thing.

Swift FGT is like Snapdragon chipset in android mobile phones. There are developers with custom ROM's aplenty, compare this some boutique chipset like Huawei HiSilicon Kirin which is what the 1.1 U2 CRDI is like.
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Old 9th May 2016, 11:39   #99
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Default Re: Bad Experience - Code 6 Tuning, Bangalore

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Originally Posted by lurker View Post
Dear Dr. it is not simple, the wastegate is constantly being adjusted in both i10 Grand and Xcent. In former the ECU controls it (my understanding) and in latter it is controlled by seperate dedicated module. Tuner needs to put in considerable work for marginal returns in power. Considering that fact that someone mentioned the tuner already has a day job. This may not be feasible that he dedicate the time for this endeavour.

Swift FGT is same as 1.3 mjd punto FGT. There are maps aplenty for that thing.

Swift FGT is like Snapdragon chipset in android mobile phones. There are developers with custom ROM's aplenty, compare this some boutique chipset like Huawei HiSilicon Kirin which is what the 1.1 U2 CRDI is like.
I suggest you to read post #90 in this thread. Xcent has wastegate turbo controlled by ECU. Waste gate will get adjusted in any car. In grand i10 there is no ECU control over it and only turbo boost pressure can't be increased by remap. Tuner can change fuel maps like how they do for swift diesel. It is really not something difficult unless there is some problem in finding the specific maps.

I had posted picture of turbo in my grand. There is no Electronic Solenoid here. Blue pipe in picture is pressure pipe between turbo compressor and actuator. It will operate at fixed tension at which spring is set making adjustments in waste gate, thus regulating the maximum boost pressure.

Cheers!!

Last edited by Dr.Naren : 9th May 2016 at 11:42.
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Old 9th May 2016, 12:16   #100
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Default Re: Bad Experience - Code 6 Tuning, Bangalore

>>It is really not something difficult unless there is some problem in finding the specific maps.

someone needs to make map specific to this hyundai's Indian creation first. Considering internationally the only 1.1 U2 diesels sold are proper VGT. This then is a totally indigenous venture for 1.1 U2 CRDI FGT. Someone will have to map behaviour at all the performance points first. That is some laborious work.
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Old 9th May 2016, 12:37   #101
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Default Re: Bad Experience - Code 6 Tuning, Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker View Post
>>It is really not something difficult unless there is some problem in finding the specific maps.

someone needs to make map specific to this hyundai's Indian creation first. Considering internationally the only 1.1 U2 diesels sold are proper VGT. This then is a totally indigenous venture for 1.1 U2 CRDI FGT. Someone will have to map behaviour at all the performance points first. That is some laborious work.
Basics of remap is same for any car buddy. Half the work is done if tuner is able to read/write the map with his tool. Say for Honda diesel cars, there is no tool which can read/write map files. Another challenge is finding specific maps in the file read from ECU.

Most of the tuners claim they do proper R & D before remapping customer cars.

Code 6 claimed they can remap my car and quoted power gain figures too. This is why I drove all the way to bangalore.

My questions to Code 6 :

1. Can you share what testing you had done on Grand i10 before you tried to remap my car? (please reply to this only if you have done)

2. If you have not tested/remapped any grand i10 before, Why did you not mention to me about it?

3. You had blamed my car for bad remap/lack of homework from your side. Do you have any proof about it? My car was running without any complaints when it came to Bay 6 garage for remap. There was no black smoke as you claimed/lied. I can post a video if required.

If you are not able to answer here, you can email to naren120@gmail.com and I will post it here.

Last edited by Dr.Naren : 9th May 2016 at 13:02.
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Old 9th May 2016, 14:25   #102
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Default Re: Bad Experience - Code 6 Tuning, Bangalore

A good lesson to those who take customers for granted and think they are smart enough to get away!

Appreciate you putting up a thread and enlightening the masses.
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Old 9th May 2016, 14:44   #103
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Default Re: Bad Experience - Code 6 Tuning, Bangalore

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A good lesson to those who take customers for granted and think they are smart enough to get away!

Appreciate you putting up a thread and enlightening the masses.
I had planned to put this thread with proof few months back itself. But I was under hesitation after insults/personal attacks in other forum. I was one man army there .

I am really thankful to Team-Bhp. I am happy that this message has reached to thousands. Let people decide whatever it is.

P S : For those who think I am lying or into "free tuning" strategy by blackmail as Sajan claimed.. Well, I got nothing to reply to them. Anyone could understand the reality after reading the thread from beginning. Those who have read the entire episode in other forum have understood it really well and put down their honest comment here.

Thanks everybody!!
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Old 11th May 2016, 13:53   #104
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Default Re: Bad Experience - Code 6 Tuning, Bangalore

Update

Code 6 tuner has finally broken the silence and said something in other forum. I will quote it here.

Quote:
To summarize my view on this, Naren was not charged any money. A pre built tune was tried on his car, and that did not make enough power. That is quite a common scenario, and it takes time to debug why a tune did not work. In a normal scenario, that is what we would do. And as many of you know, there are no cases when we were not able to fix a car and get it to develop power, irrespective of the condition that it was bought in.

In this case, considering Naren has blown up his previous cars, and has blamed the guys who tuned his cars, we decided to not take up work on the car. We should have been more clear with our reasons, because this caused Naren to think that it is because we dont know what fgt / vgt turbos are. We do know what they are, and we work on 2-3 turbo tweaks/rebuilds, every week.

In retrospect, our decision to not work on the car was absolutely correct, if you consider the damage he is doing for a car that we did not work on. Imagine what would have happened if we had indeed worked on the car...
I can clearly expose the stories/lies by him again.

1. Sajan claims that I assumed he did not know to differentiate VGT/FGT.

I am not questioning your ability to differentiate different types of turbo(you did not even bother to have a look at turbo in my car). If you had not mentioned turbo is VGT, Why would I text you in NOVEMBER 2015 saying turbo is not VGT. I had posted my experience online first in Feb 2016 and texted you about turbo months back.

Bad Experience - Code 6 Tuning, Bangalore-screenshot_20160508220753_com.whatsapp.png

2. Sajan claims that he did not want to work on my car because I blamed other tuners for issues in my car.

I had informed Sajan before I left to bangalore itself about the issues I had in SX4 post remap and I did not actually blame Petes about it. If you did not want to work on my car, why did you ask me to come to bangalore for remap? You asked me to get my SX4 also and you will fix it. Now you say, you did not want to work on my car.. Interesting!!

Bad Experience - Code 6 Tuning, Bangalore-screenshot_20160511132803_com.whatsapp.png

3. Sajan claims "pre built tune" did not work on my car and it is pretty common.

Sajan claimed to custom remap my car and promised 3 hours maximum time. If you were not sure if it would work.. Please inform the customer honestly about it. You never mentioned to me about pre built tune/chances of remap not working.

Bad Experience - Code 6 Tuning, Bangalore-screenshot_20160506113806_com.whatsapp.png

I got nothing more to say about this sajan/code 6 anymore. I have put forward everything with proof here unlike Sajan who just "talks".

Dear Moderators : I did not expect Code 6 to solve any issue. I just wanted to show how a tuning house shames the customer(for questioning them) and all those false claims without any proper R & D. Let me make it clear once again, I am not against tuners. I do have good rapport with most of the people in tuning industry. I request moderators to lock this thread as the discussion here would be repetitive. I feel the purpose of this thread is met. If Code 6/anybody wants to add anything, they can report this post to moderator to open the thread.

Cheers!!
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Old 11th May 2016, 14:07   #105
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Competency aside, Is this acceptable behavior on the part of tuners? Will do, won't do. My bat, my batting first. With both these experiences, I think our tuners may/may not know engines, but they definitely do not know business.

Edit : not generalising. I'm specifically talking about the current two tuners "in the news "

Last edited by mayankk : 11th May 2016 at 14:18.
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