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Old 22nd July 2016, 12:57   #76
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Default Re: Honda Brio: 1.5L Engine Swap (L15A / L15A7)

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Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Ok, guys, NEW ENGINE IS IN!!!
Today we crank her.

Ye olde L12B Brio engine out of the car, sulking in the corner
Attachment 1532089

Updates in the evening...
Ok, I am not working today, apart from hitting F5 here.

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Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Encouraging to hear.

The performance exhaust is going out as we speak. I wish to run the car stock to see whether I can reach City NVH and refinement levels.
Superb idea. No show, only go!
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Old 22nd July 2016, 14:23   #77
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Default Re: Honda Brio: 1.5L Engine Swap (L15A / L15A7)

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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
I know of one honda civic in this forum that has done 20k+ km after being turbocharged on stock brakes and clutch.
I have personally been in that car and there is no lack of pull or stopping power cos of the stock parts.
Hondas are just really overengineered - I doubt things will be different in a brio.
I would respectfully disagree. Firstly, the Brio is built to cost unlike the Civic which is Honda's global bread earner and enjoys much higher quality standards. So it cannot be assumed what works for Civic will work for Brio. Second, the turbocharging is done on the Engine that comes with the Civic. Here the engine is already a higher displacement one, now turbocharging it further is certainly inviting trouble. If not the electricals, the mechanicals would certainly be stressed beyond limit.


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Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
....
If this pans out well, it will well be one of the most sensible and clever (and reasonably easy) mods to do on a Brio. I wish for this thread to serve as a model for anyone who didn't have the courage to do this on their Brio.

Legendary Honda reliability, lightweight car and reasonably powerful, fun to drive, frugal and silent!
Couldn't have agreed more. And this would be a dream project for noobs like me. I find the Brio in our family the most fun to drive vehicle, but the puny 1.2 engine always makes you wonder what fun it would be to have the City engine plonked. Glued to this thread!
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Old 22nd July 2016, 14:38   #78
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Default Re: Honda Brio: 1.5L Engine Swap (L15A / L15A7)

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Originally Posted by avisidhu View Post
I would respectfully disagree. Firstly, the Brio is built to cost unlike the Civic which is Honda's global bread earner and enjoys much higher quality standards. So it cannot be assumed what works for Civic will work for Brio. Second, the turbocharging is done on the Engine that comes with the Civic. Here the engine is already a higher displacement one, now turbocharging it further is certainly inviting trouble. If not the electricals, the mechanicals would certainly be stressed beyond limit.
Maybe there is some truth in your statement - I don't have any proof to show otherwise. However any Honda's mechanical systems are normally bulletproof.

The Civic engine that is turbocharged in the Type-R is not the R18A that exists in the Indian civic. It is based on a K20A series engine.

A variant of the L15A engine in the City is also turbocharged and this is the turbo engine in the new gen Civic AT everywhere. So the L15A can definitely be turbo'ed.
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Old 22nd July 2016, 14:51   #79
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Default Re: Honda Brio: 1.5L Engine Swap (L15A / L15A7)

@reignofchaos I'm guessing once Frank is done here, someone will go a step further pretty soon, and we'll have the answers

One query Frank, in your search for the engine you mentioned the 2010 one and this 2 year old JDM one. But doesn't the City have the same engine since the 3rd Gen one? Have there been any major changes?
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Old 22nd July 2016, 20:25   #80
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Default Re: Honda Brio: 1.5L Engine Swap (L15A / L15A7)

The pace with which the work is being done is brilliant. Usually this kind of work will need us sitting with the mechanic just for them to work on our car. Its almost like you a have dedicated crew to do the swap.
It's good you are leaving the engine stock. Around 30 hp more on a lighter car, not to forget the advantage of a higher capacity, will do wonders which doesn't actually warrant the need for further mods.
It will be a proper sleeper.

Just put in some fatter rubber down the line which will help in braking as well as handling departments.
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Old 22nd July 2016, 20:51   #81
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Default Re: Honda Brio: 1.5L Engine Swap (L15A / L15A7)

I am a silent reader of this thread since the first post was made. Eagerly awaiting the result.
Somehow your last post, your choice of words, your oozing confidence, and your pictures somewhere convey to me that you have already pulled up this wonderful feat and managed to crank her up successfully with good results.

Please unfold the suspense soon!

Regards.
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Old 22nd July 2016, 22:03   #82
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Default Re: Honda Brio: 1.5L Engine Swap (L15A / L15A7)

Thanks for all the kind words.
Sadly the car didn't crank. Everything else seems to be in place, but the engine has thrown up some errors.
Honda Brio: 1.5L engine swap successful (page 7)! Now with RD ECU & larger injectors!-screenshot_20160722162326.png

Spent the entire evening there, trying to get a resolution. But sadly, after a lot of permutations and combinations, we couldn't get it to start.
We will try again tomorrow and it's a matter of getting that one thing correct. As of now, we suspect the crankshaft position sensor is not reading the position of the crank properly. Maybe, because the ecu isn't meant for this engine and the crank position for starting is different for both engines.
Maybe that's the case, or maybe it's just a case of something we have missed somewhere.
The ecu thing is turning out to be a problem because the current ecu is not configurable, and if we need to replace it for a City ECU, we need to change the wiring harness and figure the Immobiliser.

Yes. So everything isn't as hunky dory as it was meant to be. But my back hasn't broken. I will try relentlessly and that sweet sound of an engine cranking is not far away.
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Old 22nd July 2016, 22:17   #83
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Default Re: Honda Brio: 1.5L Engine Swap (L15A / L15A7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Thanks for all the kind words.
Sadly the car didn't crank. Everything else seems to be in place, but the engine has thrown up some errors.

Spent the entire evening there, trying to get a resolution. But sadly, after a lot of permutations and combinations, we couldn't get it to start.
I had doubts if your car would start with current ECU. ECU function is based on lot of sensors. When ECU detects a lot of faults or wrong data from sensors, it wouldn't enable the engine to start as a precaution.

Again, the car won't start with ECU of City. Immobiliser coding is specific for a car.

How about taking a read of City ECU and copying only the engine map into your Brio ECU?
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Old 22nd July 2016, 22:21   #84
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Default Re: Honda Brio: 1.5L Engine Swap (L15A / L15A7)

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Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
I had doubts if your car would start with current ECU. ECU function is based on lot of sensors. When ECU detects a lot of faults or wrong data from sensors, it wouldn't enable the engine to start as a precaution.

Again, the car won't start with ECU of City. Immobiliser coding is specific for a car.

How about taking a read of City ECU and copying only the engine map into your Brio ECU?
I don't know a way to upload a City Map on to this Motronics ECU. It's not within anyone's domain.
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Old 22nd July 2016, 22:25   #85
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Default Re: Honda Brio: 1.5L Engine Swap (L15A / L15A7)

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Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
I don't know a way to upload a City Map on to this Motronics ECU. It's not within anyone's domain.
I guess only KIIRUS has tools to read/write Honda petrol ECU in India. I have seen few remaps done by them on Honda petrol cars on their fb page. They might help you to get city map file and copy it into your Brio ECU. But I am not sure if they have done remap for Brio with Motronics ECU.
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Old 22nd July 2016, 23:07   #86
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Default Re: Honda Brio: 1.5L Engine Swap (L15A / L15A7)

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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
I know of one honda civic in this forum that has done 20k+ km after being turbocharged on stock brakes and clutch.
Treat it as two different cases.

The Civic has more powerful engine used in different countries. Hence the braking components maybe able to provide adequate stopping power with the forced induction. I don't think Honda will waste resources to design brakes for variants with less powerful engines unless there's significant cost savings.

The Brio is made only for the emerging markets. So it might not be over-engineered (too much) to provide stopping power for a forced induction 1.5 engine.
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Old 22nd July 2016, 23:29   #87
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Default Re: Honda Brio: 1.5L Engine Swap (L15A / L15A7)

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Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Thanks for all the kind words.
Sadly the car didn't crank. Everything else seems to be in place, but the engine has thrown up some errors. .
Not to worry. I had a hunch it wouldnt be as straight forward as in the case of K12B to K14M. Because in your case as you said both 1.2 and 1.5 Honda engines run on different make ECU and the stock ECU may not be calibrated to work with new sensors. Give it another shot after checking connections. Else proceed with another ECU
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Old 24th July 2016, 08:04   #88
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Default Re: Honda Brio: 1.5L Engine Swap (L15A / L15A7)

The fact that you are getting some kind of response is a good thing IMO. I am sure it is just a temporary roadblock.

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Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Thanks for all the kind words.
Sadly the car didn't crank. Everything else seems to be in place, but the engine has thrown up some errors.
So how do tuners in Thailand go about this? They must be facing the same sort of issues right?

How did you handle updates to the mapping table? These values would be different across the two engine I assume.

Drive on,
Shibu.

Last edited by shibujp : 24th July 2016 at 08:07.
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Old 24th July 2016, 10:40   #89
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Default Re: Honda Brio: 1.5L Engine Swap (L15A / L15A7)

See if you can get your hands on the workshop manual for the brio and 1.5 engine you are using.

It would help to compare both and you shall know the difference in the wiring etc which will save you quite a bit rather then burning up.

I did the same for my 1.3 conversion, i am running it on stock zen wiring not before burning up three ecms.Yes it was a learning curve for me, post which i bought both the manuals and studied the changes, then just changed what was required which in my case was just two wires and here i am running for the past many thousand kilometers without any issues whatsoever.
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Old 26th July 2016, 11:51   #90
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Default Re: Honda Brio: 1.5L Engine Swap (L15A / L15A7)

If I'm not mistaken, Honda does use both these engines in the Jazz internationally. They would have certainly standardized most of the aspects by now. Maybe laying hand on the manual of Jazz that uses the 1.5 one, and comparing both would be of help?
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