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Old 29th July 2016, 14:34   #121
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Default re: Honda Brio: 1.5L engine swap successful (page 7)! Now with RD ECU & larger injectors!

Awesome Stuff Frank!

Suddenly my brain starts wondering swapping my current 1.5L with a 1.8L Civic or a 2.4L Accord engine.

Will need to do some research on these engines and see if something like that is possible. If it is, I am coming straight to you for further guidance.
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Old 29th July 2016, 15:52   #122
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Default re: Honda Brio: 1.5L engine swap successful (page 7)! Now with RD ECU & larger injectors!

You know how people drive right into tyre shops after delivery to swap their tyres? People in Mumbai can now drive straight into FrankMehta's house for engine swaps.

Beautifully done , loved the impressive delicacy and skill involved in the entire thing. I wonder, are similar swaps from other manufacturers possible? Say plonking a 1.6 fiat engine into a 1.3 engine bay.
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Old 29th July 2016, 18:22   #123
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Many congratulations Frank Sir. This is something insanely great and to be proud of! Wish you many successful miles on it.

Threads like these are an inspiration for us mortal souls. Thank You !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivek.bk View Post
First of all, congratulations on the 'Crio'! Would be great if you could just take us through the RTO formalities involved in engine swap. Thanks in advance!
Sir,

This is illegal AFAIK.

Try at your own risk. Also as Frank has mentioned earlier in the thread 1.2 iVtec & 1.5 iVtec are strikingly similar in looks. I leave rest of the things to your imagination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tejas08 View Post
Awesome Stuff Frank!

Suddenly my brain starts wondering swapping my current 1.5L with a 1.8L Civic or a 2.4L Accord engine.

Will need to do some research on these engines and see if something like that is possible. If it is, I am coming straight to you for further guidance.
Please keep me posted/start a thread if you bring your plan to fruition. I would love to experiment the same with my City too.

Cicord- Here I come.

Last edited by ampere : 29th July 2016 at 19:00. Reason: Back to back posts merged
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Old 29th July 2016, 18:53   #124
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Default re: Honda Brio: 1.5L engine swap successful (page 7)! Now with RD ECU & larger injectors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
Are these performance numbers conservative or where you really going for the best time?

What about the gearboxes of the city and brio? Are they same? Any potential impact on clutch wear?
How do you think your brio now stacks up against your gt tsi?

Would love to see a drag race or a roll on race.

I honestly think 5 years down the lane, you should turn this into a proper project car. Back seats out, roll cage in, sticky rubber, Blisteins and brembos, Headers and exhaust and all.
The performance numbers were on an empty, open road. I did go for it half heartedly, but I was worried about cars around, so I didnt really give it all the beans.
The gearbox of the City and Brio are the same but the ratios are different. The final drive ratio of the Brio are shorter than that of the City. This doesn't change anything except for the fact that 5th gear feels slightly shorter than normal.
I drove the Honda and the Polo back to back. The thing is, the Polo is overdue for service, and she has been feeling a little 'heavy' since a few days. The Honda definitely feels more sprightly than the Polo as of now, since the naturally aspirated engine has no lag at all. I
I can't really do a proper project car, as this one is to go to my mom and I am to get a Laura RS or something equivalent when my accountant allows me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sankdeshmukh View Post
Hey Frank,

Congrats on successful swap, each and every one of your thread had hooked me up, be it civic, swift, estilo, polo and this swap one.

Can you tell me which OBD scanner your using and from where you get it.
Any bluetooth enabled ELM327 scanner on ebay will do. If you have an iPhone, you need a Wifi Scanner.


Quote:
Originally Posted by blahman View Post
Congrats on the brilliant swap frankmehta . Even though you'll be skeptical about the reliability of it for a few days at the back of your head, I suggest you do a leap of faith and trust your build and enjoy it completely. I'm sure the build won't disappoint you. Please go for a standalone ECU, I'm only advising you out of experience. I'm currently running the RD Standalone in my car after the piggyback gave up on me. Haven't had any issues with it after multiple maps and long runs! Worth the money IMHO. Happy driving
I am thinking of a piggyback purely because a standalone ECU for a drive by wire vehicle is a PAIN to tune. I don't need the ECU to do anything other than control the ignition timing and fuelling as per the 1.5 engine. The speed limiter on the stock ECU cannot be removed. The 145 kmph limit remains.


Quote:
Originally Posted by smarth.katyal View Post
This sounds like the simplest mod to do to a Brio to get so much power power and torque- make it a Crio. No wire cutting, no plumbing, simply replace the engine.
You said this can be done in the Jazz too? I have my doubts, the Jazz has a very tightly packed engine bay. I don't think it will be accommodate the bigger engine. How much is the size difference?
Also, if you feel that the current ECU is adjusting well to the new engine, i don't see the need to upgrade right now. You can do it later to extract more power out of the beast. Will put a grin on your face again. But, this is if it is idling properly and starting without accelerator. If its not, I'd advice you to get it fixed soon. There might be incomplete combustion happening and it will lead to a lot of soot deposits and hence reduce the life of the engine. To confirm this, get an emissions test done. Compare the results of the normal City engine with what your car is doing. If its within limit, i don't think you have to worry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smarth.katyal View Post
You got a point there. But im primarily concerned about the previous gen jazz and not the current one which has a diesel option. The newer Jazz has a spacious engine bay. Its the old one i find very cramped. But if it has 1.5 option internationally, which it does, I think it can be done.
The 2 engines are EXACTLY THE SAME. In dimensions, in their mounting points and their intake and outlet ports. EVERY thing is the same. So if this engine is in the Jazz, then you can interchange it freely.
The new Jazz and old Jazz have similar engine bays and come with the same engines.
Also, the 1.5 engine has been shoehorned into the new and old Jazz all over the world. Check youtube.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShreyasM8 View Post
Woah! the same feeling when you finally get up after an exciting movie just ends, was literally glued to this thread from past couple of days. Can't really express my happiness for your Crio!. Meantime it would be great if you can enlighten why it didn't crank at the first instance with stock mapping and how the chaps at KS Motorsports managed to get away from those intial errors on the OBD?

The reluctor ring (Sensor plate) that the Crankshaft Position Sensor detects, before providing the spark signal to the cylinders was different in both engines. I had to interchange the plates. Matter of half a day!



Quote:
Originally Posted by One:1 View Post
Couldn't have said it better myself Frank. For someone trying to get an engine to run, that too with a fair bit of uncertainty, I can say this as I experienced the same euphoria a few weeks back, Congratulations!. That's one sweet pocket rocket ! That little 1.5 ivtec under the hood, needless to say is a gem of a motor. Have loads of fun with her .

Considering that you want this to be an everyday driver I'd suggest you go for the stock ecu of the L15A . A no nonsense solution instead of having a piggyback ecu and tuning it . The motor by itself produces more than adequate power for a little hatch .

On the other hand , if you want to make this a proper Hot Hatch , then a piggyback would be the way to go.

Stock ECU won't fit. Different harness. I would have preferred having that Keihin ECU. It is even easier to tune that ECU. But sadly, I have the Motronics model.
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Old 29th July 2016, 20:15   #125
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Default re: Honda Brio: 1.5L engine swap successful (page 7)! Now with RD ECU & larger injectors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Stock ECU won't fit. Different harness. I would have preferred having that Keihin ECU. It is even easier to tune that ECU. But sadly, I have the Motronics model.
At the risk of sounding stupid, why not do a direct 1.2 ECU to a 1.2 ECU swap. Just swap out the Motronics ECU For a Keihin or a Bosch unit or something that can be tuned. I understand that it would be difficult to procure but considering it to be a daily driver, its a no nonsense option.Just my opinion.
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Old 29th July 2016, 20:25   #126
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Default re: Honda Brio: 1.5L engine swap successful (page 7)! Now with RD ECU & larger injectors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by One:1 View Post
At the risk of sounding stupid, why not do a direct 1.2 ECU to a 1.2 ECU swap. Just swap out the Motronics ECU For a Keihin or a Bosch unit or something that can be tuned. I understand that it would be difficult to procure but considering it to be a daily driver, its a no nonsense option.Just my opinion.
You don't sound stupid at all. I have already thought about this.

A brand new ECU without a wiring harness costs Rs. 40k

A used one with an immobilizer box and wiring harness costs Rs.25k. Also, a used Keihin with this connector configuration is unheard of. Besides that, I own a Motronics, which is already a Bosch. No other options.
After I get an ECU, I will have to remap it. That alone, costs around Rs. 30k.

SO , a minimum investment of 55k as compared to a Piggyback which costs Rs. 30 odd k. Also, the tuning possibilities are endless. Not as much as a standalone, but definitely better than the stock ECU.

I will try the piggyback. If I am not happy with it, I will go in for a standalone. But to get a used Keihin ECU is the least favourable option.

My ultimate target should be a standalone, just in case I feel like adding a supercharger. The condition here has to be that it should be as easy to install as this engine swap has been.
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Old 29th July 2016, 20:38   #127
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Default re: Honda Brio: 1.5L engine swap successful (page 7)! Now with RD ECU & larger injectors!

Congrats frank. Turbo charging is one way to go. But N/A engines offer a whole different level of fun. Now that the Brio, uh sorry Crio, has got the right engine displacement, you have a nice little Hot hatch to play with. I hope you have plans for upgrading brakes as well. The stock ones might get spongy after an enthusiastic drive.

Last edited by Vignesh_N/A : 29th July 2016 at 20:51.
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Old 30th July 2016, 02:30   #128
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Default re: Honda Brio: 1.5L engine swap successful (page 7)! Now with RD ECU & larger injectors!

Brakes are adequate for now. I don't really rip the car.



Honda Brio: 1.5L engine swap successful (page 7)! Now with RD ECU & larger injectors!-screen-shot-20160730-02.26.01.png
@GTO already had naughty thoughts in his mind when he reviewed the Mobilio.

AEROHIT's post in my Initial Ownership Thread and this statement by GTO sparked the insect in me to swap engines!
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Old 30th July 2016, 12:28   #129
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Default re: Honda Brio: 1.5L engine swap successful (page 7)! Now with RD ECU & larger injectors!

This is an awesome swap, reminds me of the days of the MIVEC 1.6 lancers it's been a while since we came across a Bolt on kinda a swap

Well done frank, I am glued to this thread
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Old 30th July 2016, 18:58   #130
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Congratulations on the successful implementation of this wonderful idea.
Read your posts in one go and I am left totally amazed by how smoothly you executed this job. For the very first time I looked at my sister's brio and wondered how this cute little girly car can be such a beast.
I am aware that there are still some things left to be sorted (ECU). It would be good to know the total amount this project costed you.
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Old 30th July 2016, 23:50   #131
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Default re: Honda Brio: 1.5L engine swap successful (page 7)! Now with RD ECU & larger injectors!

From a fellow Brio owner, it brings me tears of happiness reading this post. Great to see you determined and going ahead with the swap in spite of all the warnings at the start of this post ("Chassis is not great"). The stock Brio is still one of the fastest under 1.2L cars in our market. Looking for a detailed post later on, on how it feels like and maybe a YouTube video of it dragging?
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Old 31st July 2016, 18:47   #132
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Default re: Honda Brio: 1.5L engine swap successful (page 7)! Now with RD ECU & larger injectors!

200 km with her, and I can't find a SINGLE point where I have felt something amiss. The car idles like a dream. The service manual says that she should idle between 700 and 750 rpm without AC and around 800-850 with the AC on. The car idles at her prescribed limits.
The engine is CREAMY SMOOTH. You can actually feel the wooly smooth engine rev to it's redline without any drama of sorts and driving her in the city is such a boon now. No bogging down, no lag, no fluctuating RPMs, no drop in power, no loss of torque, NOT a single drop in heartbeat. This swap feels as good as it would have been if it were out from the factory.

A point to note are the NVH levels. The 1.2 was a very refined unit but somehow, it felt a little strained at high-to-very-high revs. The idle was more audible at the exhaust pipe. After the switchover to the 1.5, the engine note is way more bass and muted. It's not psychological. Acceleration through the gears has proven that. The BOOM that existed at all revs in the 1.2 engine (I have a performance exhaust) is reduced to an extent. It is still intrusive enough to bug you on a long drive when you're cruising @ 120 km/h but I intend to switch over to the stock exhaust for a few days to see how it feels. I would like to hear the engine for a few days, rather than the boom of my exhaust.

The reason I had switched over to the 'performance exhaust' was to cut down the lag and the troublesome throttle response. But now, with the 1.5, I would like to switch back to old man mode.



A memorable note to end this post:
My Dad had no idea that I was doing this to my car. Today being a Sunday, I sat him down and showed him photos and a video. I expected him to look at me disapprovingly and say, "Why do you do such things to a brand-new car?!"
Little did I know that he would get up, ask me to change and drive down 35 km to my other home, where she was parked.
We reached. He cranked her. Warmed her up, and GAVE HER THE BEANS. The man has revved the nuts off the car! He has approved. AND HOW!
He drove all 35 km with 6000 rpm gearshifts. #crio obliged every single time! AND HOW! The sign of a good engine swap is non-fluctuant engine vital parameters, and I was studying them throughout the whole drive from the passenger seat. The CAR IS AS STABLE AS A ROCK!


I am not going to sing more praises. TOUCHWOOD!


A Video to end my post.
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Old 31st July 2016, 19:29   #133
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Default re: Honda Brio: 1.5L engine swap successful (page 7)! Now with RD ECU & larger injectors!

Congratulations on your engine swap. I'm pretty sure this was the easiest swap of them all listed on Team-Bhp. Enjoy your ride !

That being said, I guess its curtains for future e-zens and b-zens. It was one of the most popular sources for an engine swapped hot hatch. I guess that title will now go down to the Brio.
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Old 31st July 2016, 19:31   #134
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Default re: Honda Brio: 1.5L engine swap successful (page 7)! Now with RD ECU & larger injectors!

Quote:
Originally Posted by anand_lukose View Post
Congratulations on your engine swap. I'm pretty sure this was the easiest swap of them all listed on Team-Bhp. Enjoy your ride !

That being said, I guess its curtains for future e-zens and b-zens. It was one of the most popular sources for an engine swapped hot hatch. I guess that title will now go down to the Brio.
Not really. Apparently, E-Zens and B-Zens are still the easiest swaps in the business!
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Old 31st July 2016, 20:28   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Not really. Apparently, E-Zens and B-Zens are still the easiest swaps in the business!

Those swaps might be easy but this swap that you have done is worth the extra effort reason being the versitality this car offers. You can potter around the city all day long, do some pretty insane speeds, carry 4 people easily and also highway drives as and when required. Brio comes with pretty good safety kit with airbags and ABS standard across all the variants.


On the contrary most of the E-Zens and B-Zens were project cars. There might be people who use them as their daily cars but the Brio is a far better and safer package.
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