Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Modifications & Accessories


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 15th February 2017, 21:34   #151
BHPian
 
Suraj25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 206
Thanked: 294 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
I had mentioned in my post that Pedal tune box won't put extra stress on the engine Since the fuelling is within safety limits set by ECU, pedal tune can't do anything here.

Hi Naren, I see that you already got a remap done by ToT and are also interested in pedal tune. Making the throttle response sharper can also be done by a remap, talk to Vivek about this. We had it done on my Abarth and even a slight dab on the throttle made the car rev a lot quicker!
Suraj25 is online now   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th February 2017, 21:36   #152
Team-BHP Support
 
Jaggu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 17,492
Thanked: 6,769 Times
Default Re: PedalTune: Customisable throttle response

@Dr Naren I think you are not understanding few fundamental points which we are referring to.

Assume same car same tune, driven aggressively will it have more wear and tear in comparison to normal driving?

In a remap fuel is just one of the many parameters, even then the default tune need not have ideal mixture for preserving the engine and might be more focussed towards emission and even FE. To simplify further a lean Vs rich Vs right mix situation. Can it be further corrected and that can be beneficial to engine? if done right ie. and not really add to wear and tear?

Have you tried cars with cruise control? If so have you noticed the way in which cruise mode accelerates to a particular Kph set Vs the way in which even a most aggressive accelerator input does, isn't there a positive difference how the electronics accelerate?

So there are many things that can be fine tuned which can be achieved by a good remap and that does not necessarily mean harming engine in any way.

Anyways let us not complicate it further, since this is about Paidal tune and not remaps also any sort of modification be it remap or paidal will have some con or other in comparison to the very conservative and extensively tested manufacturer set up. So debating on it without a very long term monitoring and multiple sampling will be quiet futile. So this is at best academic debate for now..
Jaggu is offline   (11) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th February 2017, 22:00   #153
Senior - BHPian
 
Dr.Naren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: B'lore / Mysore
Posts: 2,584
Thanked: 4,456 Times
Default Re: PedalTune: Customisable throttle response

Stock Map : Nothing can beat the reliability of stock map. This is tried and tested by manufacturer for lakhs of KM. No tuner can give a safer map than what manufacturer could give. Oh yes, he can if he detunes the map

Remap : Many tuners claim that they remap "within safety limits". How they get to know this safety limit of each and every component is the question which can't be answered. Again thanks to the manufacturers for keeping a certain safety margin which is exploited by tuners. Anyways, if a remap is done rightly it should be good enough. I have 3 cars running with TOT remap and they are just brilliant and have not faced any issues till date.

Tuning Box : End result is same as remap. Its just the method used is different. You fool the ecu here to get more fuel.

Pedal tune box : This box is not meant to increase power. It can just help in cutting the lag and improve throttle response. This is no match to a good remap or even a tuning box. I wanted to try this box myself and do a detailed analysis. Yes, I will do if I get a working box for my car.

Regarding the safety factor, aggressive driving etc.. In terms of reliability :

Stock map with normal driving > Remap with normal driving > Stock map with aggressive driving > > > Remap with aggressive driving

Compared to remap / tuning box, A pedal tune box is an overpriced simple cheat device which makes the driver happy and not put extra stress!!

Disclaimer : I am not against or for any 3 products. Everything has its own share of advantages and disadvantages, it's upto the customer to choose the best one based on his priorities!!
Dr.Naren is online now   (8) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2017, 08:00   #154
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 194
Thanked: 213 Times
Default Re: PedalTune: Customisable throttle response

Is there a PedalTune box available for the previous generation Corolla? Our 2012 Corolla could definitely use a better throttle response.
bowser is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2017, 23:48   #155
Senior - BHPian
 
ImmortalZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 2,133
Thanked: 137 Times
Default Re: PedalTune: Customisable throttle response

Okay, so before I connect one of these things in my car, can someone tell me how it handles failure? Suppose it fries - all electronics can die and by Murphy's Law, it will happen when I'm trying to get past a KSRTC bus while a lorry is bearing down on me. How does the PedalTune box behave? Will it go stuck open, stuck closed, limp mode... what does it do?
ImmortalZ is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2017, 23:54   #156
Senior - BHPian
 
frankmehta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,865
Thanked: 2,216 Times
Default Re: PedalTune: Customisable throttle response

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
Okay, so before I connect one of these things in my car, can someone tell me how it handles failure? Suppose it fries - all electronics can die and by Murphy's Law, it will happen when I'm trying to get past a KSRTC bus while a lorry is bearing down on me. How does the PedalTune box behave? Will it go stuck open, stuck closed, limp mode... what does it do?
It simply breaks the electrical circuit between the engine and the a pedal. So the a-pedal should go lifeless if a device like this ever dies on you.
Akin to the main sensor going kaput.
frankmehta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2017, 11:19   #157
Senior - BHPian
 
ImmortalZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 2,133
Thanked: 137 Times
Default Re: PedalTune: Customisable throttle response

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
It simply breaks the electrical circuit between the engine and the a pedal. So the a-pedal should go lifeless if a device like this ever dies on you.
Akin to the main sensor going kaput.
So, you're telling me I simply lose the A pedal?

You do realize that OEMs don't do that, right? There are two independent sensors on the A pedal which create two distinct, but mathematically related signals that are always correlated by the ECU to make sure that the pedal is working right. And you don't lose two sensors together unless it's a catastrophic failure (or a complete wiring cut). These fail-safe mechanisms are intricate enough that aftermarket ECU firms started supporting DBW throttle bodies a decade+ after they became common place with OEMs. And some companies like Adaptronic still don't support DBW throttle solely because of the legal liabilities they face should the throttle misbehave, like the Toyota unintended acceleration fiasco. See Nikhil's turbo Civic thread for his problems with Haltech and DBW control.

Are you seriously dismissing such a possibility with "it will act as if you lose the A pedal"?

In my example above, I die.

Last edited by ImmortalZ : 18th February 2017 at 11:28.
ImmortalZ is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2017, 14:13   #158
Senior - BHPian
 
frankmehta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,865
Thanked: 2,216 Times
Default Re: PedalTune: Customisable throttle response

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
So, you're telling me I simply lose the A pedal?

You do realize that OEMs don't do that, right? There are two independent sensors on the A pedal which create two distinct, but mathematically related signals that are always correlated by the ECU to make sure that the pedal is working right. And you don't lose two sensors together unless it's a catastrophic failure (or a complete wiring cut). These fail-safe mechanisms are intricate enough that aftermarket ECU firms started supporting DBW throttle bodies a decade+ after they became common place with OEMs. And some companies like Adaptronic still don't support DBW throttle solely because of the legal liabilities they face should the throttle misbehave, like the Toyota unintended acceleration fiasco. See Nikhil's turbo Civic thread for his problems with Haltech and DBW control.

Are you seriously dismissing such a possibility with "it will act as if you lose the A pedal"?

In my example above, I die.
I'd presume so.

If you're worried about all these possibilities, clearly, any modification to the throttle system is not recommended for you.
frankmehta is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2017, 17:00   #159
Senior - BHPian
 
audioholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BengaLuru
Posts: 3,017
Thanked: 4,197 Times
Default Re: PedalTune: Customisable throttle response

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
Okay, so before I connect one of these things in my car, can someone tell me how it handles failure?
Depends upon what failure it is. Consider it is a software failure wherein the output gets stuck at max. Then you are a goner. It all depends upon how the internal architecture of the device is. If one piece of code is controlling both the main and sub circuits, then we have a strong competitor to Toyota - In terms of uncontrolled acceleration.

If it is a hardware failure which is most unlikely to happen(except if some cheap internal components are used or you are one really unfortunate guy ) then it again depends upon how the system is designed. If there is a single controller commanding both the main and sub circuits, and it packs up for some reason, both main and sub circuits will send out the same signal. Some microcontrollers can send a signal high to the output if they suffer a burnout or an internal short(some component failing) or a total shutdown can send 0V. For the ECU, either of this means one circuit represents pedal pressed fully and the other shows pedal not pressed. Depending on how the ECU takes decision, we will get to know whether the car continues accelerating or throttle is cut. Both of these will be a nasty surprise to the driver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
You do realize that OEMs don't do that, right? There are two independent sensors on the A pedal which create two distinct, but mathematically related signals that are always correlated by the ECU to make sure that the pedal is working right. And you don't lose two sensors together unless it's a catastrophic failure (or a complete wiring cut). These fail-safe mechanisms are intricate enough that aftermarket ECU firms started supporting DBW throttle bodies a decade+ after they became common place with OEMs.

Are you seriously dismissing such a possibility with "it will act as if you lose the A pedal"?
I would be impressed if this device indeed has two separate and distinct circuits just like the OEM setup and can operate independently in case one fails. At such a situation, though there will be an engine check light on, throttle will still be usable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post

Have you tried cars with cruise control? If so have you noticed the way in which cruise mode accelerates to a particular Kph set Vs the way in which even a most aggressive accelerator input does, isn't there a positive difference how the electronics accelerate?
Best example, this one!

Last edited by audioholic : 18th February 2017 at 17:16.
audioholic is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2017, 18:14   #160
BHPian
 
d3mon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 460
Thanked: 558 Times
Default Re: PedalTune: Customisable throttle response

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post

Are you seriously dismissing such a possibility with "it will act as if you lose the A pedal"?

In my example above, I die.
Do you also die if your car enters limp mode while overtaking a bus?
Or if the TC kicks in and cuts engine power?
Or even better, if the car that you're trying to overtake is a sleeper, and his 'VTEC just kicked in, yo'?

I think as long as the device doesn't cause the throttle to be stuck open it should be considered relatively safe, especially on manual cars.
d3mon is online now   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th February 2017, 18:49   #161
BHPian
 
blackbandit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Mangalore
Posts: 111
Thanked: 189 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default Re: PedalTune: Customisable throttle response

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
So, you're telling me I simply lose the A pedal?

You do realize that OEMs don't do that, right?....
We can go a long way debating on the disadvantages or the potential risks that can take place. But whats the use? if we look into it nothing is fail safe in this world. I completely disagree with the fact that OEM products are fail safe - we can list the disadvantages in them too if we start. Anything can happen anywhere. What i am trying to say is its pointless going through such little things. Butter chicken is considered to be very unhealthy and unsafe and can kill you with a heart attack. But who wouldn't want to grab and have it when it is available and some of us like to have it daily even though we know for a fact that it is unhealthy and might kill us or make us obese . But All these are worst case scenarios. And not to sound offensive, If loosing the A pedal is gonna kill someone then one should start jotting down the various other things that can potentially kill them on the road and that will ultimately make one pack himself in a box and sit inside it forever. And yeah the device might not be well tested or made of good quality or whatever but the owners are well aware of the fact and its their problem. They are not asking or forcing anyone to get it installed in their vehicles. They are just posting their experiences with it and its to them if they live long enough to say its a good product or we will come to know it failed in the news

Last edited by blackbandit : 18th February 2017 at 18:52.
blackbandit is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2017, 14:33   #162
Newbie
 
BODHI25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Kolkata.
Posts: 12
Thanked: 20 Times
Default Re: PedalTune: Customisable throttle response

Very very interesting thread I must say. Enjoyed reading everyone's point of view.
As @frankmehta said we should first try it once and that's what I'll do now for my Polo petrol 1.2 MPi. Hopefully, it'll make some difference.
BODHI25 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2017, 16:55   #163
BHPian
 
Waspune's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Pune
Posts: 261
Thanked: 239 Times
Default Re: PedalTune: Customisable throttle response

My Punto Evo 90 HP is already remapped by Viezu and now I am thinking of getting the DTE pedal box as well. I also clarified with DTE and other international forums that it would perfectly work on a remapped car, in fact will complement it. Following is the product page:
https://www.chiptuning.com/en/fiat/g.../pedalbox.html

The box costs 199 euros and 30 euros for shipping. This way it will come out to be around Rs 17k. It comes with a 2 year warranty and a 30 day return period, if we arent happy with the product.

How much does the pedaltune cost btw? I read that its available for Rs 15k only if bought in bulk.

Last edited by Waspune : 23rd February 2017 at 17:08.
Waspune is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2017, 17:07   #164
Senior - BHPian
 
Dr.Naren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: B'lore / Mysore
Posts: 2,584
Thanked: 4,456 Times
Default Re: PedalTune: Customisable throttle response

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waspune View Post
My Punto Evo 90 HP is already remapped by Viezu and now I am thinking of getting the DTE pedal box as well. I also clarified with DTE and other international forums that it would perfectly work on a remapped car, in fact will complement it.
I have also checked DTE Pedal tune box and even my S-Cross is listed on their website. Also it looks like TTS Auto pedal tune box is inspired from DTE pedal tune box. Basically the working principle of all these pedal tune boxes should be same. Yes, it should compliment the remapped car well. Many companies sell tuning box and pedal tune as a combo ( say reduced price).

Last edited by Dr.Naren : 23rd February 2017 at 17:09.
Dr.Naren is online now   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2017, 21:12   #165
Newbie
 
BODHI25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Kolkata.
Posts: 12
Thanked: 20 Times
Default Re: PedalTune: Customisable throttle response

I won't go into the details of this Pedal tune as Frankmehta has already explained it very well. After finding this product very interesting I ordered one for my Polo 1.2 MPi with just 75 horses.

After driving for almost 1000 kilometres here are the things which I've felt so far :
1. Engine feels way more responsive than before.
2. The car feels lighter to accelerate from standstill.
3. It's way more drivable in both city and highway.
4. Overtaking has become easy with just a lil tap on the accelerator pedal and the car gains momentum in lesser time compared to the stock pedal setting.
5. This engine is famous for its sluggishness but I'm happy to say that Pedal tune has reduced it to some extent and its way more fun to drive now.
6. Engine feels way more peppy and in Race mode the car accelerates way faster than the other cars with just a tap on the accelerator pedal.
7. FE has increased by close to 1.5 kmpl which I don't know how it happened, maybe because of more relaxed driving. But yes it goes down if you drive aggressively.
8. Couldn't get the same result by switching the pedal tune off.

So, should you buy it?
Yes, because you can get it for trial and if you don't like it you can simply return it.

Am I happy with the product?
Obviously its a big yes. My everyday drive just feels so much better now.

@Narry If you're reading this then I would like to say Sorry for asking all those stupid questions.
BODHI25 is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swift - throttle response ballkey Technical Stuff 19 31st May 2008 12:27
Dial 100 for quick response. heavy_foot Street Experiences 21 7th November 2007 18:31
F1 Rapid Response! madhav Int'l Motorsport 0 11th November 2006 19:50
My email to Maruti/their response abt the Swift Sport theMAG The Indian Car Scene 1 1st October 2006 14:59
HONDA CITY: quick response needed- Please Surprise Shifting gears 14 2nd March 2005 09:55


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 20:16.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks