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Old 9th February 2017, 19:36   #121
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Default Re: PedalTune: Customisable throttle response

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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
Exactly.

On one hand, we have mainstream TBHP-ians bemoaning lack of safety equipment on some cars and some variants and on the other, they want to play around with their DBW systems!?!?

It's a different issue if someone is going all out with some mods to their cars knowing the risks and benefits
Haven't you modified the throttle system in your car and replaced it with a cable driven one?
That modification is safer than a plug and play solution? Just asking.
Let's not debate guys. Spoiling a lovely forum and confusing people. By arguing.
Let's just say you don't endorse this product. And some of us do. I don't own the company nor am I Obliged to sell any products for them. I'm posting these in good faith.
They're not that bad..

Peace out.
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Old 9th February 2017, 21:06   #122
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Default Re: PedalTune: Customisable throttle response

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Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Haven't you modified the throttle system in your car and replaced it with a cable driven one?
That modification is safer than a plug and play solution? Just asking.
Let's not debate guys. Spoiling a lovely forum and confusing people. By arguing.
Let's just say you don't endorse this product. And some of us do. I don't own the company nor am I Obliged to sell any products for them. I'm posting these in good faith.
They're not that bad..

Peace out.
Ok. Point taken.

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Please understand I have no issue with what you've done, just that I had my doubts about this being used by someone who just takes the mod at face value.

If I've been a bit too aggressive, then I apologise.
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Old 9th February 2017, 23:00   #123
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Default Re: PedalTune: Customisable throttle response

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Its not a concept. But the fact.
In todays world of fake news, alternative facts, Trump facts etc, the normal reader believes what he wants to believe. Convincing such people otherwise is an exercise in frustrating futility. (NB. the other side would (try to) make the same argument about us!)

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Sutripta
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Old 12th February 2017, 20:25   #124
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Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
This contraption just reduces the lag and makes the daily drive a little more fun.
The press harder vs press lesser concept has been discussed to death. Lets just say that it's not as much fun to drive now with the pedal tune off.


Interesting thread. Interesting debates. Much has been said. So let me be as non-redundant as possible.

Technical aspects

It is true that PedalTune is just a throttle signal amplifier. But it has the following advantages:

1. As mentioned above, the amplification factor is not constant. The amplification across the throttle range is non linear. Most cars have low throttle response during initial throttle positions to aid smooth ride, controllability etc. PedalTune applies highest amplification factor during this initial phase there by counter acting the dumbing down of throttle input hence providing more response.

2. Since pedal tune follows a non linear amplification factor. It never hits max voltage before full throttle. Hence it avoids dead pedal in the final stage to some extent.

Psychological aspects

Humans respond very well to non linear inputs. Because our mind is trained to ignore constant parameters and focus varying ones. A car like GT TSI has a very linear acceleration. PedalTune provides the exciting third derivative of distance, or rate of change of acceleration, or jolt. Because of this jolt, the car becomes very exciting.

Pressing hard on the throttle can give the same response as PedalTune, only AFTER it has reached full throttle. PedalTune makes instant prods to the throttle (especially during the initial revs where there is lag), more responsive. It may be humanly possible to mash the throttle to the floor. But it may not be possible for us to make minute adjustments, faster than normal. This PART THROTTLE transitions is where PedalTune comes in.

PedalTune is no witchcraft. It is just an amplifier. But the non constant amplification factor across the throttle positions especially in part throttle, there by sharpening throttle response and negating the lag or low response in stock, is what makes it exciting. Couple this with different response curves and you have a device that suits every car and everyone

Last edited by rageshgr : 12th February 2017 at 20:34.
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Old 13th February 2017, 18:09   #125
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Default Re: Ford Aspire TDCi : My Blue Bombardier, flying low on tarmac EDIT : 25,000kms COMPLETED

Note from Support: Moved relevant discussion (this & following posts) on PedalTune from https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-...ml#post4146810 to this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
Not sure if you ever drove on Hyderabad ORR, it was tested on that as well. It's a full blown American style freeway with miles and miles of visibility for you to test your machine in whatever way you want too.



This query is unclear. Could you please rephrase?
Yes, I've driven on the Hyd ORR and I envy you Hyd guys for it, more so when compared to the Bangalore ORR that I drive on every day

I was asking about the video which you've posted - it has Pedal D & Pedal E sensor values being displayed in the torque app. Interestingly, they're not reporting the same values. Is one of them supposed to display the 'slew rate' aka the rate of change of the actual pedal value? Or something else that I'm not able to fathom?

Last edited by aah78 : 15th February 2017 at 20:41. Reason: See note.
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Old 13th February 2017, 19:58   #126
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Default Re: Ford Aspire TDCi : My Blue Bombardier, flying low on tarmac EDIT : 25,000kms COMPLETED

Quote:
Originally Posted by d3mon View Post
I was asking about the video which you've posted - it has Pedal D & Pedal E sensor values being displayed in the torque app. Interestingly, they're not reporting the same values. Is one of them supposed to display the 'slew rate' aka the rate of change of the actual pedal value? Or something else that I'm not able to fathom?
I have noticed that Pedal E value is 50 percent of Pedal D in my Baleno, S-Cross and SX4. Also the minimum value was 14.5 and max 72.5 for Pedal D.
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Old 14th February 2017, 18:23   #127
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Default Re: Ford Aspire TDCi : My Blue Bombardier, flying low on tarmac EDIT : 25,000kms COMPLETED

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Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
I'm happy to announce that I have installed the "Pedal Tune" as highlighted in my previous post. A lot has been already written, debated about it and not to mention some hot exchanges also took place from the believers and non- believers including some chuckle worthy comments like we can achieve similar results delivered by Pedal Tune by "Pressing the Gas harder" and logically I cannot blame anyone to think on those lines as I would have also made similar snide remarks if I had not personally tested or used it.
Yeah i agree, i don't know why people can't understand simple electronic cheats. Accelerator pedal in current breed of ECU cars (and bikes) are nothing but type of potential meters, they provide inputs to ECU based on your inputs through the leg. A device like "paidal tune" (pun intended) would take this input and amplify (sport) or curtail (economy) it, to give the desired outcome. It should work and make the throttle more OR less responsive, based on the mode it is in. This would make the vehicle also more or less responsive, again based on the mode.

It is a simple mod, but it should work! I don't think there is anything debatable in this.

Does the overall output from engine increase due to this? Well as per logic it would not, but the way in which the same power is put down will improve in power mode and vice versa in economy mode. i.e if it is a cheap cheat which should be the case since only the accelerator connection is used as input here.

Edit: I just remembered someone mentioning adding a simple INR 5 resistor in accelerator circuit to improve response year back, here in Team BHP. It is same concept. Edit 2: Sorry i was referring to this, same concept of cheat

Last edited by Jaggu : 14th February 2017 at 18:28.
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Old 14th February 2017, 18:27   #128
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Default Re: Ford Aspire TDCi : My Blue Bombardier, flying low on tarmac EDIT : 25,000kms COMPLETED

@Jaggu : Even the economy mode is supposed to have more response in this pedal tune box than stock. There is no mode lesser than stock here . I know the world "Economy" would make anyone think it's lesser than stock.

Logically power gain is not possible. But I think it can help in 0-100, in gear acceleration timing. On stock settings, the voltage rise graph is linear. But on pedal tune it's not linear, but it meets the stock graph at the end. So this doesn't lead to any dead zone on the pedal.

On 100 percent throttle, stock and pedal tune should be same. But yes, it's after you reach 100 percent throttle. Even if you have a heavy right foot, you could still accelerate linearly in stock settings. While the pedal tune makes it way faster.
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Last edited by Dr.Naren : 14th February 2017 at 18:34.
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Old 14th February 2017, 18:43   #129
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Default Re: Ford Aspire TDCi : My Blue Bombardier, flying low on tarmac EDIT : 25,000kms COMPLETED

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Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
@Jaggu : Even the economy mode is supposed to have more response in this pedal tune box than stock. There is no mode lesser than stock here . I know the world "Economy" would make anyone think it's lesser than stock.
Yes that might be specific for this device i guess (if you have measured it).

Quote:
Logically power gain is not possible. But I think it can help in 0-100, in gear acceleration timing.
Again true.

Quote:
On stock settings, the voltage rise graph is linear. But on pedal tune it's not linear, but it meets the stock graph at the end. So this doesn't lead to any dead zone on the pedal.
Definitely it helps to iron out any rough spots of the stock map also then.

Quote:
On 100 percent throttle, stock and pedal tune should be same. But yes, it's after you reach 100 percent throttle. Even if you have a heavy right foot, you could still accelerate linearly in stock settings. While the pedal tune makes it way faster.
So in short we both are in agreement, it IS a great device to get a better driving car.

How much is the cost any idea? If it's thousand or two its major bang for the bucks!

Similarly you can do changes to the parameters inside ECU while doing a remap. Obviously at current remap cost, it would be far expensive i guess.
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Old 14th February 2017, 21:28   #130
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Default Re: Ford Aspire TDCi : My Blue Bombardier, flying low on tarmac EDIT : 25,000kms COMPLETED

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post

Similarly you can do changes to the parameters inside ECU while doing a remap. Obviously at current remap cost, it would be far expensive i guess.
Actually you won't need this box if you have a remap. Cause u can take care of it in the map itself.

This box cheats the ECU into thinking more throttle is being applied than actual. So when you press the throttle 20% the ECU will think you are applying 60% or any value which has been set into the box using the different "modes".

In case of a remap you can change the map into saying if the throttle applied is 20% pump fuel like it's 60%. Plus in a map you can change a whole lot of other parameters vs the pedal tune which only fools one parameter.

Like you said if you were to open up this box it should have components worth a few hundred bucks at best.
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Old 14th February 2017, 21:48   #131
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Default Re: Ford Aspire TDCi : My Blue Bombardier, flying low on tarmac EDIT : 25,000kms COMPLETED

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
......
How much is the cost any idea? If it's thousand or two its major bang for the bucks!.....
15K INR per piece for TBHPians (negotiable discount for multiple purchases) according to the dedicated thread.
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Old 14th February 2017, 23:04   #132
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Default Re: Ford Aspire TDCi : My Blue Bombardier, flying low on tarmac EDIT : 25,000kms COMPLETED

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
15K INR per piece for TBHPians (negotiable discount for multiple purchases) according to the dedicated thread.
Wow that's steep. This plus a tuning box would be more than a remap I guess. Don't worry soon some of the local players might come out with a cheaper option I guess. One way can't blame the manufacturer since low volume of such products means they have to price it high to recover cost.

Last edited by benbsb29 : 15th February 2017 at 06:48. Reason: Typo correction.
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Old 14th February 2017, 23:36   #133
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Default Re: Ford Aspire TDCi : My Blue Bombardier, flying low on tarmac EDIT : 25,000kms COMPLETED

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Wow that's steap. This plus a tuning box would be more than a remap I guess. Don't worry soon some of the local players might come out with a cheaper option I guess. One way can't blame the manufacturer since low volume of such products means they have to price it high to recover cost.
Yes the price price looks high for a product which just fools the ECU by sending amplified voltage signals. But it is the same principle in all the tuning boxes and still people end up paying a lot. Also the pedal tune box is offered by few companies in Europe and priced around 200 to 250 Euros. Some of the big remap giants in India like Petes have slashed the remap price and that looks super VFM ( Say 19k for a Petes remap vs 15k for Pedal tune box). At the end, it's upto the priorities of the customer. The pedal tune box wouldn't cause any extra stress to the engine and still would make the driver grin
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Old 14th February 2017, 23:39   #134
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Default Re: Ford Aspire TDCi : My Blue Bombardier, flying low on tarmac EDIT : 25,000kms COMPLETED

A remap would have been a great option in Avi's car and would made most sense. But the Ford ECU doesn't get remapped over OBD and would have to be removed for a bench flash. I don't think he's happy with that concept hence a plug and play option like an RD Box or equivalent would work in this case.
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Old 15th February 2017, 00:04   #135
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Default Re: Ford Aspire TDCi : My Blue Bombardier, flying low on tarmac EDIT : 25,000kms COMPLETED

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Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
A remap would have been a great option in Avi's car and would made most sense. But the Ford ECU doesn't get remapped over OBD and would have to be removed for a bench flash. I don't think he's happy with that concept hence a plug and play option like an RD Box or equivalent would work in this case.
Ford ECU could be remapped by OBD like Ecosport ( new & old) / Fiesta / old Figo. For New Figo / Aspire, I can't understand what's the exact problem. I think Bhuvan had mentioned that TPROT level is higher and the protocol has to be cracked. Also there are many tools for remap, May be some tool would do.

Tuning box is the best option for cars which cannot be remapped / difficult to remap like the Aspire here. Glued to this thread, want to see the results of tuning box with pedal tune

Last edited by Dr.Naren : 15th February 2017 at 00:05.
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