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Old 14th December 2016, 17:21   #16
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Default Re: VW Polo: Bilstein B6 dampers on stock springs

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Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
Noob question

Can these be installed in the diesel Honda City? Truly fed up with my car's lousy suspension which provides neither low speed comfort nor a flat ride at high speeds or composure over bumps.
B6 dampers are model and engine specific. For instance, Polo has several depending on the model year and engine.

While information is freely available for European and American models across most auto websites abroad, I’m not sure about Honda City. I think best would be to call Pete’s Automotive or directly enquire with Bilstein. Other option is to share your VIN with vendors. They'll usually tell you if anything would fit.

Last edited by d_himan : 14th December 2016 at 17:22.
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Old 14th December 2016, 17:34   #17
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Default Re: VW Polo: Bilstein B6 dampers on stock springs

Great thread d_himan!

Congrats on the suspension upgrade! I can imagine what you are experiencing. Gives me goosebumps.

I had been salivating over the Bilstein B6 even before I bought the GT TSI. The stock suspension might be fine on a 1.2 MPI or a 1.2 TDI. But the GT's at least, need a much better suspension during braking, undulations and cornering.


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Originally Posted by d_himan View Post
I've PM ed several BHPians who had asked me for the source:

Ross from TDC automotive. Orders@tdcautomotive.com
I paid through Paypal. ~ 475 pounds including express shipping by TNT
Order was shipped in 3 days and took a week more to arrive at customs.
Thanks for this info!

The main thing that stalled my purchase was the huge cost of around 70k, compared to Euro prices.

But your quote is a revelation.
Is there a website for this dealer? Or do I need to just email him and start the conversation?

Last edited by rageshgr : 14th December 2016 at 17:36.
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Old 14th December 2016, 19:08   #18
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Default Re: VW Polo: Bilstein B6 dampers on stock springs

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Originally Posted by rageshgr View Post
Great thread d_himan!

The main thing that stalled my purchase was the huge cost of around 70k, compared to Euro prices.

But your quote is a revelation.
Is there a website for this dealer? Or do I need to just email him and start the conversation?
Thanks Ragesh. Yes, the difference in the driving experience is transformational. I thought it was all hype until I actually sampled it ‘the Saint’s’ Polo. My other car currently is an i10 AT, I’m unable to spend more than a few minutes driving it – completely spoilt by B6.

I did not want to pay Rs.80K too, more than twice of what customers in US/UK/EU are charged. Yes, there is no warranty if things go wrong if it’s a global seller, but I figured it was an unlikely event, given Bilstein’s reputation for robust build quality.

TDC is a dealer in the UK. Ross was my contact. Just email him and start a conversation.
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Old 15th December 2016, 13:06   #19
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Default Re: VW Polo: Bilstein B6 dampers on stock springs

Nice one d_himan !

This upgrade will surely transform Your Polo.

So, do You think the Bilstein B6 dampers will be available for Vento TDi as well ? If so, what would be the part numbers ?
Or should we ask the seller via e-mail ?

Also let me know if I could call You sometime for further queries & do please provide Your mobile number if it's fine with You.

Thank You,
Arun
9945866330
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Old 15th December 2016, 13:43   #20
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Default Re: VW Polo: Bilstein B6 dampers on stock springs

Thanks for tempting me d_himan! I'm dreaming about getting this on the Vento TDI!
But I have two questions:
1) I thought stiffer springs=back breaking ride. I can't fathom the fact that it 'murders' potholes! Does your back hurt after a long drive? Or are you still in the honey moon period?
2) How long do you expect them to last? Any other long term examples in India?
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Old 15th December 2016, 18:36   #21
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Default Re: VW Polo: Bilstein B6 dampers on stock springs

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Originally Posted by arun_747 View Post
Nice one d_himan !

This upgrade will surely transform Your Polo.

So, do You think the Bilstein B6 dampers will be available for Vento TDi as well ? If so, what would be the part numbers ?
Or should we ask the seller via e-mail ?

Also let me know if I could call You sometime for further queries & do please provide Your mobile number if it's fine with You.

Thank You,
Arun
9945866330
Arun – I’m sure they would be available for the Vento as well. You could check with sites such as bilstein-shop.com and see if you can locate the part numbers. Alternately, send your VIN to the seller and ask them to confirm which models fit. I’ll PM you.


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Originally Posted by Turbohead View Post
Thanks for tempting me d_himan! I'm dreaming about getting this on the Vento TDI!
But I have two questions:
1) I thought stiffer springs=back breaking ride. I can't fathom the fact that it 'murders' potholes! Does your back hurt after a long drive? Or are you still in the honey moon period?
2) How long do you expect them to last? Any other long term examples in India?
I understand ‘firmness’ is subjective – and until I experienced a ride in the B6, I was always sceptical too. Let me answer it the best way I can.

At low speeds, say 30-40 kmph, in bad surfaces (say, concrete road with irregularities/paver roads), the ride is definitely ‘busier’ than stock – so you will feel the road more, feel small bumps which stock glosses over. This is where you notice the ‘firmness’ , it’s a sports suspension after all. Again, whether an individual is ok with this is a personal call. I’m fine, it’s firm but not uncomfortable. But is it as cushiony as stock at this speed? No.

At higher speeds, the ride quality improves over stock and it ‘flattens’ the road out - potholes are dealt with a disdainful thump. Let me also point out that while the stock suspension also feels stable at high speeds on smooth surfaces in a straight line, it doesn’t ‘stick’ to the road as much as the B6s and gets ruffled over deep potholes.

The real deal, to me, is this. At ANY speed, the absence of dipping, bobbing and side-to-side movements is the striking revelation. And this makes it completely stand out from stock. You’ll have far more confidence in everything – steering, lane changes at high speeds, lane changes at low speeds, going down a spiral parking ramp in a mall or workplace, absence of ‘dipping’ post hard braking, absence of ‘oscillations’ post going over a speed breaker, road undulations… Also, the steering actually feels more connected – far less ‘wooliness’. I’ve yet to learn the limits of the shock travel – the fronts have internal bump stops, and I’ve yet to bottom out. And because I’m on stock springs, I have no headaches about GC, looks be damned.

My back doesn’t hurt – but then it never did earlier either. So I guess I’m not the best to answer that. What I feel is back pain is more dependent on lumbar support, driving position and material of the seat.

B6s internationally have a limited lifetime warranty .The build quality certainly feels very solid. Some BHPians have been running it on Lauras for a pretty long time. Gannu is running it on GT TDI but I guess it’s not been too long either. I ploughed through several international forums where most people were all praise for the longevity. I’ve bought them expecting them to last till the life of the car.
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Old 16th December 2016, 00:49   #22
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Default Re: VW Polo: Bilstein B6 dampers on stock springs

~~~ Dampers/Shocks/Shock Absorbers and their effect on car ride height ~~~

I was going to make the comment that the weight of the car is supported by the springs and that dampers only "dampen" the shock of compression and rebound of the springs - ergo changing dampers (or shocks if you will) cannot change ride height of the car.

Multiple results from some googlefoo confirmed my thoughts.

But then your pictures are proof that your ride height has increased both at the front as well as the back - which means that my thoughts on the matter as well as all those articles I read were wrong.

Well with some more digging around I came across this thread from the mini-forum which sheds some light on this!

So apparently Bilsteins and other gas charged shocks hold about 10-15 times more N2 gas pressure compared to regular factory shocks!! And so the rebound pressure from these shocks is often enough to lift the weight of the whole car!!

The effect is more pronounced at the rear, in the case of mini as well as your own case, because the rear is light weight whereas the front has engine weight on it.

This answers Turboheads comment "1) I thought stiffer springs=back breaking ride." here the springs are the same - only the dampers are changed. Since these are high pressure shock absorbers you can literally murder potholes and the shock from crashing into that pothole will never transfer to the cabin or the occupant. This effect will be more pronounced at higher speeds.

Further, since these shocks have so much pressure in them, they counter act body roll movements similar to an anti-roll bar thereby completely justifying the "zero body roll" feeling these B6s are giving.

Here is the link of the thread if any one is interested -

http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums...ght-the-facts/

Which leaves us with the aesthetic problem of ride height. I think the only way to counteract that would be to have preload adjustable dampers - and even this I am guessing. So I am going back to googling around to confirm this thought!
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Old 16th December 2016, 15:31   #23
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Default Re: VW Polo: Bilstein B6 dampers on stock springs

As mentioned earlier, I have practically experienced (read measured) this with regular oil based shock dampers, and the gas assisted dampers. This is about OEM shocks, on same coil springs.

The comparison pictures in this thread are of cars having different type of coil springs. Ride height is different even if the same dampers are installed in those two.

Anyhow, all articles I found had incorrect information. However, a couple of experienced people, said the gas-assisted shocks indeed make the vehicle sit higher.

Edit: Stiffness of dampers is another factor in affecting the ride height. Amount of gas filled in a damper is one reason for stiffness.

Last edited by halfbytecode : 16th December 2016 at 15:38.
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Old 16th December 2016, 19:27   #24
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Default Re: VW Polo: Bilstein B6 dampers on stock springs

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Originally Posted by drivebyfire View Post
~~~ Dampers/Shocks/Shock Absorbers and their effect on car ride height ~~~

I was going to make the comment that the weight of the car is supported by the springs and that dampers only "dampen" the shock of compression and rebound of the springs - ergo changing dampers (or shocks if you will) cannot change ride height of the car.

Multiple results from some googlefoo confirmed my thoughts.

But then your pictures are proof that your ride height has increased both at the front as well as the back - which means that my thoughts on the matter as well as all those articles I read were wrong.

Well with some more digging around I came across this thread from the mini-forum which sheds some light on this!

So apparently Bilsteins and other gas charged shocks hold about 10-15 times more N2 gas pressure compared to regular factory shocks!! And so the rebound pressure from these shocks is often enough to lift the weight of the whole car!!

The effect is more pronounced at the rear, in the case of mini as well as your own case, because the rear is light weight whereas the front has engine weight on it.

This answers Turboheads comment "1) I thought stiffer springs=back breaking ride." here the springs are the same - only the dampers are changed. Since these are high pressure shock absorbers you can literally murder potholes and the shock from crashing into that pothole will never transfer to the cabin or the occupant. This effect will be more pronounced at higher speeds.

Further, since these shocks have so much pressure in them, they counter act body roll movements similar to an anti-roll bar thereby completely justifying the "zero body roll" feeling these B6s are giving.

Here is the link of the thread if any one is interested -

http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums...ght-the-facts/

Which leaves us with the aesthetic problem of ride height. I think the only way to counteract that would be to have preload adjustable dampers - and even this I am guessing. So I am going back to googling around to confirm this thought!
Thanks! That's some good info! Eye opener! BTW I meant shocks, not springs!
Aesthetics can be ignored because one of the reasons for lowering was in the interest of reducing body roll. Now since that is solved, the advantage comes to play-no more scraping the underbody by speed breakers It's definitely a win-win situation!
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Old 17th December 2016, 08:37   #25
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Default Re: VW Polo: Bilstein B6 dampers on stock springs

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Originally Posted by d_himan View Post

Ross from TDC automotive. Orders@tdcautomotive.com
I paid through Paypal. ~ 475 pounds including express shipping by TNT
Order was shipped in 3 days and took a week more to arrive at customs.
Hello d_himan,

I am thinking of changing the stock suspension on my Polo as well with the B6. Could you help understand how TNT handled the customs? Essentially I want to know if we have to visit some customs office with proof or something. I saw your first post on this thread but could not really understand why the customs tax was so low.

Thanks,
Srinivas
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Old 17th December 2016, 10:03   #26
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Default Re: VW Polo: Bilstein B6 dampers on stock springs

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Originally Posted by d_himan View Post
B6 dampers are model and engine specific. For instance, Polo has several depending on the model year and engine.

While information is freely available for European and American models across most auto websites abroad, I’m not sure about Honda City. I think best would be to call Pete’s Automotive or directly enquire with Bilstein. Other option is to share your VIN with vendors. They'll usually tell you if anything would fit.

I checked up with Pete's as well as a Bilstein dealer in the UAE. While Pete's hasn't responded, the UAE guy has confirmed that they do not have anything for the current model of the Honda City.

This is disappointing. I was under the impression that since the City is also sold is a lot of international markets, there will be plenty of stuff available off the shelf, like is the case with the Civic.
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Old 17th December 2016, 11:18   #27
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Default Re: VW Polo: Bilstein B6 dampers on stock springs

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Originally Posted by Turbohead View Post
Thanks for tempting me d_himan! I'm dreaming about getting this on the Vento TDI!
But I have two questions:
1) I thought stiffer springs=back breaking ride. I can't fathom the fact that it 'murders' potholes! Does your back hurt after a long drive? Or are you still in the honey moon period?
2) How long do you expect them to last? Any other long term examples in India?
I have used B6 in my Cruze for more than 50000 km (till I sold the car). These shocks are very reliable and performed well even after 50 K km. Both ride quality and handling are considerably improved after installing B6. Much lesser body movements , flatter ride on uneven roads at high speeds and very good handling made the car a bliss to drive
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Old 17th December 2016, 18:30   #28
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Default Re: VW Polo: Bilstein B6 dampers on stock springs

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Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post

This is disappointing. I was under the impression that since the City is also sold is a lot of international markets, there will be plenty of stuff available off the shelf, like is the case with the Civic.
Ah, bad luck. I had an Accord earlier - and the US was paradise for aftermarket parts. Unfortunately, unless the same model sells in the UK/EU and/or US, there's a huge lack of choice in quality aftermarket stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srinivasnvns View Post
Hello d_himan,

I am thinking of changing the stock suspension on my Polo as well with the B6. Could you help understand how TNT handled the customs? Essentially I want to know if we have to visit some customs office with proof or something. I saw your first post on this thread but could not really understand why the customs tax was so low.

Thanks,
Srinivas
I'll PM you Srinivas! EDIT - just figured I can't PM. You can write to me at d_himan@yahoo.com

Last edited by d_himan : 17th December 2016 at 18:32.
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Old 18th December 2016, 23:41   #29
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Default Re: VW Polo: Bilstein B6 dampers on stock springs

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Originally Posted by d_himan View Post
Ah, bad luck. I had an Accord earlier - and the US was paradise for aftermarket parts. Unfortunately, unless the same model sells in the UK/EU and/or US, there's a huge lack of choice in quality aftermarket stuff.



I'll PM you Srinivas! EDIT - just figured I can't PM. You can write to me at d_himan@yahoo.com
Hi d_himan. So, after some deliberation finally made the plunge and ordered the B6 last week. Its already on transit and can't wait for it to reach India. Thanks for your help. Will contact you once it arrives if i encounter issue in customs / installation. Hope you don't mind.
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Old 20th December 2016, 18:11   #30
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Default Re: VW Polo: Bilstein B6 dampers on stock springs

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Originally Posted by d_himan View Post
Ah, bad luck. I had an Accord earlier - and the US was paradise for aftermarket parts. Unfortunately, unless the same model sells in the UK/EU and/or US, there's a huge lack of choice in quality aftermarket stuff.
Hi, i see that one of our t-bhp member has also upgraded to B6 and he has replaced the front strut mounts to ECS heavy duty stuff. Did you also replace the mounts or kept the oem mounts as it is ?
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