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Old 6th February 2017, 21:15   #1
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Default Upping the Cool quotient: Add-on Coolant Cooling system on my GT TSI!

Hi all!
Here's a warning! The word, COOL will be repeated, record number of times in this post!

6 months ago, a weird guy from Hong Kong pinged me on my mobile through a popular internet messenger. He wanted me to try some of his products. He had come across my Crio and Polo GT TSI threads on Team-Bhp, and contacted me after reading how enthusiastic I was, in trying new things.
Initially, I was a bit wary, as I didn't want to try the products. They were a little 'out of the blue' and 'unconventional,' even for my adventurous self, but I have done outlandish things before, and this person just didn't relent. I remember his words, "TRY once. Don't pay for it if you don't like it. And even if you like it, KEEP IT!" Narry (Naresh Virkar, owner of TTS Auto) was very persistent and I finally agreed to try the 'safest' product in their portfolio.
So much confidence was unheard of, and I decided to take TTS Auto's first product, the PedalTune, for a spin. The single highlight of his products was their simplicity and plug-and-play nature. CLIP-TO-CLIP: NO JUGAAD is his motto. If anything needs to be modified to fit a product, it's reliability goes down. Fine, then! We were definitely on the same page on that aspect.

The details are in the threads below.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...-response.html (PedalTune: Customisable throttle response)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...-response.html (PedalTune: Customisable throttle response)

Very soon, I realized that this man was a treasure trove of knowledge and he was sitting on a gold mine of information. His knowledge of latest cars and modern electronics shocked me. I bit the bullet, and HOW!
The products kept coming in!

PedalTune, T-Box, 4 channel tuning box, Beru Spark Plugs, TTS Auto ECU Remap, Racecat, Downpipe, ALL tried in my cars. These things worked so well and had such good build quality, that I realized that TTS Auto meant business and their quality and service spoke volumes of their understanding of the Indian market. I am stoked by their service and love the fact that every modification I want to make on my car comes with pre- and post- instructions to make the best out of it.

The latest in their line of products deserves its own thread. It's something that has turned me into a believer of the mantra: KEEP IT COOL!

My Polo GT TSI is running a fairly high list of drivetrain mods:
1. TTS Auto remap
2. PedalTune
3. T-Box DSG remap
4. TTS Auto 15w-60 fully synthetic oil (more on this in another thread)
5. Beru UXT-12 Performance Spark Plugs
6. BMC CD-Dia Carbon Fibre Air Intake
7. Borla Spitfire Non-resonated Exhaust

I was super happy with all these mods, and the car is performing LEAGUES better than it did in stock form. I was so happy that I thought there is nothing else I could do, to make this 'puny' 1.2 litre TSI engine and DQ200 DSG combination to perform any better.

Enter NARRY.
"Frank, I have ONE product that will blow your socks off. You won't even know what gave, but you will thank me for it. DON'T PAY FOR IT if it doesn't work!"

I was shocked at this man's confidence (bordering on arrogance) about the 'efficiency' of this product.

Note the word EFFICIENCY!

I present to you, India's FIRST Coolant Cooled Liquid Intercooler Cooling System!!!!!
This contraption is a 'radiator' of sorts that 'cools' the coolant that passes through a lot of components of the engine, cooling them in the process. This nifty little intercooler sits just next to the Coolant Reservoir and has fins on both sides that help 'radiates' the heat that the coolant has gathered while passing through crucial drivetrain components. Mind you, this thing DOESN'T LOWER the coolant temperature. It just dissipates the heat faster and better, and hence increases thermal efficiency of the engine. And THAT is where the magic begins.. More on that later.
Narry has studied the VW TSI engine family closely. His mumbo-jumbo about the cooling system of the engine was always confusing. I never quite believed how much 'keeping it cool' meant to the drivetrain until it was actually installed in my Polo.
Mind you, most turbo-charged cars, before they enter the big league (of mods) warrant a larger intercooler, which operates on the same principle of thermal efficiency, and there are two different types of intercoolers available, air cooled and liquid cooled.
The air-cooled intercooler has zero or negative effect on the 1.2 TSI, and it has been tried by a few to no avail. I was very skeptical of Narry's explanation but has proven his prowess in this field, time and again. And this meant, giving this a whirl.
Anyway, some photos of it when it arrived.

Great Build quality:
Upping the Cool quotient: Add-on Coolant Cooling system on my GT TSI!-20170130_233230-large.jpg

Upping the Cool quotient: Add-on Coolant Cooling system on my GT TSI!-20170130_233332-large.jpg

TTS Auto branding:
Upping the Cool quotient: Add-on Coolant Cooling system on my GT TSI!-20170130_233351-large.jpg

Upping the Cool quotient: Add-on Coolant Cooling system on my GT TSI!-20170130_233426-large.jpg

Upping the Cool quotient: Add-on Coolant Cooling system on my GT TSI!-20170130_233431-large.jpg

Comes with all clamps, clips and high quality Silicone tube for installation:
Upping the Cool quotient: Add-on Coolant Cooling system on my GT TSI!-20170130_233452-large.jpg

iPhone 7 Plus for scale. This thing is DAINTY!
Upping the Cool quotient: Add-on Coolant Cooling system on my GT TSI!-20170130_233553-large.jpg


Anyway, he had told me that the volume of extra coolant required for this intercooler would be 325 ml, which would mean that I would have to pour around 325 ml of coolant extra, in the reservoir. I didn't have coolant that day, so used filtered water to top up, and sure as hell, the volume of coolant required to be topped up was 325 ml, as much as one can of Coke!
He was not happy with the concept of adding water, and urged me to procure G13 coolant that VW puts in all it's cars. I will do the same, as the extra water I have added is bound to evaporate through the fins of the coolant intercooler (Actual coolant doesn't! )

He had even predicted that the coolant level would fall quite a bit as I would drive and told me to carry water or coolant, and sure it did, just like his other practical suggestions with all mods.

Anyway, the moment that we all are waiting for, while scrolling down.
HOW DOES SHE DRIVE!? Because that's the only thing that matters.
Please don't mind me using this terminology, but MASHALLAH! This thing WORKS. And HOW!!!!!!@!@@@

Fired her up nervously, after installation (which took just 10 mins) and the engine was ticking inconspicuously. The first finding came to the fore. Where's my ENGINE SOUND!? I was amazed at how silent and vibe-free the engine had become. My exhaust note had remarkably changed, and the sound from the Borla had changed to something I can only describe as, HEALTHY and at the peak of it's health.

Reversed the car out of the crowded compound, and was still wary of the difference this thing would make. Took the car out to an empty road, and floored it in 'D' mode. I had 'TEARS' in my eyes. My car was a totally different animal.

1. HIGHLY perceptible improvement in throttle response. Part-throttle response has totally changed. The 1.2 doesn't really feel like it's 1.2. This has added the BIG-engine feel. Improvement in this aspect is by leaps and bounds, and driveability of this highly tractable drive-train has dramatically and tremendously taken a huge leap.
2. SHOCKING Mid-range shove. This is something I just can't get enough of. The car jumps like a scalded tigress, and this feeling MUST be experienced.
3. Refinement: Again, HUGE difference. The 1.2 tsi has a slightly gravelly note to it. This thing has made a big change there too. The engine is purring.
4. In-Gear Acceleration and Pick-up: My car has been transformed totally. The alacrity with which this thing picks up speed in any gear at any RPM just dazzles me. I have tears and a stupid smile plastered on my face, both at the same time!
5. Definite Increase in torque produced by engine at lower revs.
6. INSANELY quick and smooth gearshifts.

Now, some theory. I have always been weak at this, so pardon my technical knowledge (or the lack of it)

In the Polo GT TSI, the coolant circulates through the following components:
1. Engine, of course
2. Intake Manifold (cooling the hot air generated when the wastegate of the turbo opens)
3. Turbo
4. Gearbox (DQ200): This COULD be a grey area, and I don't know if the DQ200 has it's own oil cooler, or is cooled by the coolant line. Someone please correct me here.

The coolant is supposed to stay at 90 degrees centigrade, but engine gases and temperatures may touch 135 degrees centigrade. The hotter the gases in the manifold, the warmer the air the turbo pulls into the throttle body, hence cooling these components, through which the air passes, and the components themselves, QUICKLY (very important here), is the principle on which this Coolant Intercooler thrives on. The larger surface area of the auxiliary radiator (the intercooler) helps radiate that heat faster, hence increasing thermal efficiency of the coolant massively, and in the process, improving thermal efficiency and performance of all the crucial components cooled by the coolant. (remember my warning? The terms, Cool and coolant will be used abundantly)

A few advantages of this coolant intercooler will also spill over to the following:
1. Coolant water pump (one of the components of the cooling system notoriously susceptible to failure in Indian VWs)
2. Turbo and engine life (Cooler the better, ALWAYS)
3. DSG Gearbox Reliability (again, a big ghost of VW's past)

Anyway, THIS upgrade is one of the BEST and MOST SUPREME additions after all the mods, in my quest to make my Polo a fast and reliable car, along with increasing it's ability to increase the smiles per miles quotient.

The best part about the mod is it's ability to be attached in ANY CAR running in India at this point. The results will only vary, from car to car, but you just can't go wrong with this.

I bow down to the Great Narry and TTS Auto and thank them for giving me the opportunity to try what could be the single, most capable and efficient game-changer for Indian cars. This works!!!!

Signing off!

Some installation pictures
Upping the Cool quotient: Add-on Coolant Cooling system on my GT TSI!-20170201_143038-large.jpg

Upping the Cool quotient: Add-on Coolant Cooling system on my GT TSI!-20170201_145436-large.jpg

Upping the Cool quotient: Add-on Coolant Cooling system on my GT TSI!-20170201_145440-large.jpg

Coolant level after a day's drive. EVEN after top-up. Levels have stabilized after this top-up.
Upping the Cool quotient: Add-on Coolant Cooling system on my GT TSI!-20170202_165036-large.jpg

Now stabilized after 200 km of driving
Upping the Cool quotient: Add-on Coolant Cooling system on my GT TSI!-20170204_194750-large.jpg

Last edited by GTO : 7th February 2017 at 09:41. Reason: Correcting image orientation
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Old 6th February 2017, 21:53   #2
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Default Re: Upping the COOL quotient! Coolant Cooled Liquid Intercooler Cooling system in GT TSI! INDIA's Fi

What happens if we install 2 coolers? Like another cooler to cool the coolant before it goes into the coolant cooler? Cooler-ception?

My Turbo Civic's coolant temp never goes above 50 deg C on the highways. Will this drop the coolant temperature further and get me better power?

It made me laugh. I will place my humour on record so that you can throw it back in my face later if this thing really works with real world science!

This sounds like a load of bull$hit. It's snake oil.

If it makes you happy, so be it. That's all that matters.

But this thread did make me laugh.
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Old 6th February 2017, 21:54   #3
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Is this something similar ? Water to air intercooler ?
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Old 6th February 2017, 21:58   #4
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Default Re: Upping the COOL quotient! Coolant Cooled Liquid Intercooler Cooling system in GT TSI! INDIA's Fi

You basically added a radiator to your radiator?

A water to air intercooler for your coolant is called a radiator. Your car already comes equipped with one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
This contraption is a 'radiator' of sorts that 'cools' the coolant that passes through a lot of components of the engine, cooling them in the process. This nifty little intercooler sits just next to the Coolant Reservoir and has fins on both sides that help 'radiates' the heat that the coolant has gathered while passing through crucial drivetrain components. Mind you, this thing DOESN'T LOWER the coolant temperature. It just dissipates the heat faster and better, and hence increases thermal efficiency of the engine. And THAT is where the magic begins.. More on that later.
And it doesn't reduce coolant temps, but removes heat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Anyway, he had told me that the volume of extra coolant required for this intercooler would be 325 ml, which would mean that I would have to pour around 325 ml of coolant extra, in the reservoir. I didn't have coolant that day, so used filtered water to top up, and sure as hell, the volume of coolant required to be topped up was 325 ml, as much as one can of Coke!
He was not happy with the concept of adding water, and urged me to procure G13 coolant that VW puts in all it's cars. I will do the same, as the extra water I have added is bound to evaporate through the fins of the coolant intercooler (Actual coolant doesn't! )
Fluid evaporating through the fins = leak.

Last edited by GTO : 7th February 2017 at 09:42. Reason: You can get your point across without being rude.
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Old 6th February 2017, 21:58   #5
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Default Re: Upping the COOL quotient! Coolant Cooled Liquid Intercooler Cooling system in GT TSI! INDIA's Fi

Quote:
Originally Posted by paras211 View Post
Is this something similar ? Water to air intercooler ?
Cannot be. An intercooler by definition cools the air going into the engine. In this case, it seems to be a cooler for the coolant....

But that's what the radiator is there for....
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Old 6th February 2017, 21:58   #6
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Default Re: Upping the COOL quotient! Coolant Cooled Liquid Intercooler Cooling system in GT TSI! INDIA's Fi

I kind of agree with Nikhil here. Why does coolant need to be cooled further? So the radiator is not working?

When I saw the thread title I thought you were injecting water in intercooler to cool the intake charge.

This doesn't seem to make sense technically. However if you are seeing an improvement it would be interesting how exactly this is helping. You even mention that coolant temp is not changing.
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Old 6th February 2017, 22:00   #7
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Default Re: Upping the COOL quotient! Coolant Cooled Liquid Intercooler Cooling system in GT TSI! INDIA's Fi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
What happens if we install 2 coolers? Like another cooler to cool the coolant before it goes into the coolant cooler? Cooler-ception?

My Turbo Civic's coolant temp never goes above 50 deg C on the highways. Will this drop the coolant temperature further and get me better power?

It made me laugh. I will place my humour on record so that you can throw it back in my face later if this thing really works with real world science!

This sounds like a load of bull$hit. It's snake oil.

If it makes you happy, so be it. That's all that matters.

But this thread did make me laugh.
It works, Nikhil. Trust me, I had the same belief before installation.
I would never want to throw anything back in your face though


Quote:
Originally Posted by paras211 View Post
Is this something similar ? Water to air intercooler ?
Liquid Heat Radiator could be a good word.

Last edited by frankmehta : 6th February 2017 at 22:06.
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Old 6th February 2017, 22:03   #8
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Default Re: Upping the COOL quotient! Coolant Cooled Liquid Intercooler Cooling system in GT TSI! INDIA's Fi

Isn't the radiator supposed to cool the coolant? What will an extra radiator in series do - I think nothing!

Did you actually check the coolant temperatures? What were the before and after numbers?
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Old 6th February 2017, 22:05   #9
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Default Re: Upping the COOL quotient! Coolant Cooled Liquid Intercooler Cooling system in GT TSI! INDIA's Fi

Have you taken the coolant temperature readings, before and after? That should give a good idea of how much this mod is helping, especially in our hot driving environment. Technically this is doing the same job as larger radiator right?
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Old 6th February 2017, 22:05   #10
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Default Re: Upping the COOL quotient! Coolant Cooled Liquid Intercooler Cooling system in GT TSI! INDIA's Fi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
I kind of agree with Nikhil here. Why does coolant need to be cooled further? So the radiator is not working?

When I saw the thread title I thought you were injecting water in intercooler to cool the intake charge.

This doesn't seem to make sense technically. However if you are seeing an improvement it would be interesting how exactly this is helping. You even mention that coolant temp is not changing.
Nowhere did i mention that the coolant temperature changes. There is NO DROP IN COOLANT TEMPERATURE. If there was a drop in coolant temperature, i t would also mean a drop in operating temperature of the engine, which would warrant a lot of deleterious effects, starting from a drop in power and torque and even drastic engine damage.
This functions on the principle of thermal efficiency alone. Cooling things quicker, but keeping them at optimal operating termperatures.
This concept requires you to try it once. That's all I can say. This is nothing that I can type here and prove.
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Old 6th February 2017, 22:06   #11
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Default Re: Upping the COOL quotient! Coolant Cooled Liquid Intercooler Cooling system in GT TSI! INDIA's Fi

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post

COOLANT Radiator could be a good word.
That's a radiator. A Normal radiator does the exact same job of cooling the coolant.

I still cant wrap my head around this. Something's seriously wrong if you're seeing such a massive difference.

Coolant temp remains same? So, how the hell are you getting so much power?
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Old 6th February 2017, 22:15   #12
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Default Re: Upping the COOL quotient! Coolant Cooled Liquid Intercooler Cooling system in GT TSI! INDIA's Fi

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Nowhere did i mention that the coolant temperature changes. There is NO DROP IN COOLANT TEMPERATURE.
That's what I meant dude. You are saying temperature is NOT changing!

A radiator is supposed to cool i.e. temperature should drop. So this should change the temperature of the coolant coming out of it which is exactly the same as what a radiator of a car does. Could it be that your radiator is clogged? Could it be you were low on coolant already?
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Old 6th February 2017, 22:16   #13
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All said and done, I may be barking up the wrong branch here, technically.
Oh, I forgot to mention. Ignition timing was checked before and after at partial and full loads, and even that has seen a substantial gain. I have screenshots of torque to prove that this has been instrumental in improving ignition timing.
Can someone throw some light on what the hell we are doing right here??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
That's what I meant dude. You are saying temperature is NOT changing!

A radiator is supposed to cool i.e. temperature should drop. So this should change the temperature of the coolant coming out of it which is exactly the same as what a radiator of a car does. Could it be that your radiator is clogged? Could it be you were low on coolant already?
NO such anomalies bro. She's in the PINK of her health.

Here's a diagram of the cooling circuit of the CBZB 1.2 tsi engine. Have a look at how crucial the coolant is, in our engines
Attached Thumbnails
Upping the Cool quotient: Add-on Coolant Cooling system on my GT TSI!-cbzbchargeaircoolingsystem.jpg  


Last edited by frankmehta : 6th February 2017 at 22:23. Reason: merging
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Old 6th February 2017, 22:22   #14
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Default Re: Upping the COOL quotient! Coolant Cooled Liquid Intercooler Cooling system in GT TSI! INDIA's Fi

Maybe this one gives extra radiating area so that the fan in the main radiator does not kick in to full speed all the time. But this is so small i can't believe it makes a difference. Or is this an air to liquid intercooler?
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Old 6th February 2017, 22:30   #15
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Default Re: Upping the COOL quotient! Coolant Cooled Liquid Intercooler Cooling system in GT TSI! INDIA's Fi

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
All said and done, I may be barking up the wrong branch here, technically.
Oh, I forgot to mention. Ignition timing was checked before and after at partial and full loads, and even that has seen a substantial gain. I have screenshots of torque to prove that this has been instrumental in improving ignition timing.
Can someone throw some light on what the hell we are doing right here??
Where on the engine is your coolant temperature sensor located?

You realize that ignition timing is continuously varied by the ECU in response to various parameters including, but not limited to intake air temp, coolant temp and load, right? How have you managed to keep everything constant in your before and after comparisons?
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