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Old 21st November 2012, 12:39   #31
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Default My Zen LXI , attempted theft and the nightmare begins...

Hello everyone,

I have recently managed to purchase one of my favorite cars, THE ZEN. The original one, not the Estilo. Firstly, kindly excuse the long post.

I am going to digress here, but please bear with me. I feel this is essential to understand my current mental situation. I had been looking to purchase a Zen for quite some time, and then one day, after several months of patient searching, I got a call form someone who wanted to sell it, that too with barely 40K Kms on the odo. The buying experience was extremely pleasant. I will definitely write about that soon.

Extremely happy, I drove down the car to my place, and then, like the rest in my area, parked it on the road (no other option available). Unfortunately, there is no parking space left on the front of the building, so I had to park it at the rear side. However, it was still visible from my balcony.

Two nights ago, just went out to the balcony at around 11 PM. Surprisingly, the car was silently blinking. No alarm sound, just blinking lights. I went down immediately and then my neighbor tells me that probably someone tried to open my car. But, shouldn't it raise hell then? A Nippon system was installed.

Even more surprising, it started sounding an alarm of its own accord for no apparent reason in the morning. I was standing right there. So no tampering then. I can't think of an explanation.

Since then, I changed the parking area and made sure that a few people who virtually live on the open land next to the new parking keep an eye. I do not drive down to work daily. I have an office cab for that which is far more convenient. Mostly will be using over the weekend, so the car is parked all day and I am in office. I am worried now. Maybe even paranoid.

I have been trying to obtain a gear shift lock in Bangalore but to my surprise, a lot of people are unaware of this and they do no think it to be mandatory. I have tried calling Xenos, Autocop and Minda directly, been to JC road. Not available anywhere. Tried the dealers, accessories shops as well. The only solution is to mail order it and then get it installed. But that will take days. Is there any other immediate solution/ measure I can take?

I have looked at the TATA DOCOMO Smart Car security solution mentioned below:

TATA DOCOMO Smart Car Security

The concerned rep will be coming over today to take a look.

Is it worth it? The other option is the basic Micro VBB Black Box on a thread here MICROVBB Review (Review of MicroVBB Black Box)

Any advise/suggestion will be appreciated.

Again, please excuse the long post.

-RLight
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Old 21st November 2012, 21:10   #32
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RLight, I'm very sorry to hear of the attempted theft on your car. A scumbag trying to steal one's beloved ride is every auto-enthusiast's nightmare.

I would like to know if your Zen has Maruti's i-Cats immobiliser. This was introduced by Maruti Suzuki as a standard feature on all their cars after a particular date, and I don't know if yours has the device. If your car does have it, then it is a very useful theft deterrent and quite difficult (but not impossible) to crack. Even if your ride is equipped with the said i-Cats (and more so if it isn't), it makes sense to go for other theft deterrents.

Keeping in mind that there is no fool-proof theft prevention device and only theft deterrents, it's advisable to go for a combination of things (tracking device and/or remote locking system with additional security features, visible mechanical deterrents & human deterrent).

It looks like you have partly taken care of the human deterrent factor by asking someone to watch your car. You can also consider paying a permanent security guard/watchman in the neighbourhood a small monthly amount to keep an eye and make sure no one messes with your ride.

Next, you must consider mechanical theft deterrents that are visible. A thief will think twice before attempting his dirty tricks on a car with a visible deterrent as opposed to one without. I would suggest that you install a gear lock (especially a U-type one, from the likes of Xenos) and also use a steering wheel lock (which you can buy at many car accessory stores).

An electronic theft deterrent is important. It looks like the remote locking/alarm system already on your car is not functioning properly. Try to get it fixed, if not, then get a new one installed. The GSM/GPS based tracking systems you listed sound good to me. The MicroVBB has received positive reviews and you can install it in your car for that peace of mind factor. Otherwise, consider a good remote locking system with an immobiliser and a loud siren. Get a system with sensors if you want them. Autocop is a very reliable brand. Xenos is another reputed name.

Since you park it for long periods on the street, I suggest that you remove the detachable faceplate on the music system when you do so - it gives thieves less incentive to attempt a break-in.

There are threads about various theft deterrents and the discussions in them are very useful:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/owning...car-theft.html (ARTICLE: How to protect your car from THEFT)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...ons-about.html (Your car's security system's brand & your opinions about it)

Keep us posted on your choices. Take care and drive safe!

Edit: Have you tried these shops listed as distributors, for the Xenos gear lock?

http://www.xenos.co.in/south.html

Last edited by RSR : 21st November 2012 at 21:39.
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Old 21st November 2012, 23:31   #33
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Default Re: Remote locking : Autocop or Xenos or Nippon?

[quote=RSR;2968902]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR
RLight, I'm very sorry to hear of the attempted theft on your car. A scumbag trying to steal one's beloved ride is every auto-enthusiast's nightmare.
Thank you for the patient, empathetic reply and for the suggestions. It is truly heart breaking to go through such an experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR
I would like to know if your Zen has Maruti's i-Cats immobiliser.
No, it doesn't. It just has the Nippon central lock system installed which I am beginning to doubt more and more with every passing minute.

The last couple of nights have been spent repeatedly checking the car's presence and hence, went sleepless. Looks like today will be the same again. The Nippon security system seems to be quirky. Again, in the evening, I tried to open the door after locking it. Surprisingly, no alarm. However, the lock was working i.e. I could not open the door. Then sometime later, the whole alarm fiasco began again. It is almost as if the car has a very very detailed reaction. It would probably be funny if the situation wasn't so grim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR
Keeping in mind that there is no fool-proof theft prevention device and only theft deterrents, it's advisable to go for a combination of things (tracking device and/or remote locking system with additional security features, visible mechanical deterrents & human deterrent).
Yes, I have spoken to the people around as well as the usual guard to keep an eye out. I have also paid them to that affect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR
Next, you must consider mechanical theft deterrents that are visible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR
I would suggest that you install a gear lock (especially a U-type one, from the likes of Xenos) and also use a steering wheel lock (which you can buy at many car accessory stores).
Autocop U-Type gear lock is already on its way. Asked dad to buy one and send it across immediately. I have already spoken to the Autocop service centre in Bangalore for installation the day I receive it which will most probably be Friday. Two more nights of this agony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR
Edit: Have you tried these shops listed as distributors, for the Xenos gear lock?
Yes, I have. These were the replies:

1. No stock.
2. Try contacting some alternate number.
3. Please get the system and we will install it. In Bangalore, people don't buy them so we don't stock them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR
An electronic theft deterrent is important. It looks like the remote locking/alarm system already on your car is not functioning properly. Try to get it fixed, if not, then get a new one installed.
I have tried to locate any Nippon dealer/service centre to fix the system but to no avail. I will drive down to the nearest Maruti dealer tomorrow. I believe, they should be able to help. If not, will talk to the Autocop people and get it done when I get the gear lock installed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR
The GSM/GPS based tracking systems you listed sound good to me. The MicroVBB has received positive reviews and you can install it in your car for that peace of mind factor. Otherwise, consider a good remote locking system with an immobiliser and a loud siren. Get a system with sensors if you want them. Autocop is a very reliable brand. Xenos is another reputed name.
The TATA DOCOMO executives came down today with the brochure and an explanation. I have used other TATA services in the past and feel that their customer service is good.

For information:
The system will:

1. Let you know when someone opens the door.
2. Tracking is available.
3. No immobilizer.
4. Intimates when ignition is turned on.
5. Geo-lock feature is available.
6. Draws power from the car battery and is placed in a discreet location.

MicroVBB additionally has:
1. Immobilizer
2. Individual car sensors

Costs:

TATA DOCOMO Smart Car security solution : Device + installation = 8666+1000= Rs.9666. Additionally, a mandatory initial service for 6 months/1 year (your choice) at Rs. 2500/5000 respectively. So, the min total is about Rs.12500.

MicroVB: Cost as mentioned elsewhere in this forum is about 7k for the basic economy one. So it is cheaper.

I have yet to decide which one to go for. The only part in favuor of TATA is their customer service. However, yet to experience the service by MicroVB in Bangalore. So will decide after that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR
Since you park it for long periods on the street, I suggest that you remove the detachable faceplate on the music system
Yes, I take care of this meticulously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR
There are threads about various theft deterrents and the discussions in them are very useful:
Read these threads and then some, with microscopic detail. Did not know about micro VBB before.

Drifting into yet another sleepless night,
RLight
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Old 30th January 2013, 16:25   #34
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Default Which Remote/ Central Lock for old Zen

Mods: Tried using search feature but could not find a relevant thread, so creating a new one. In case a thread exists, please move this post to relevant thread. Thanks.

Hello tbhpians,

I am driving, well, its old but in pretty good state, a 2002 Zen Lx. This did not come with a factory fitted central/remote locking system. I did not feel the need of it until now, as previously my parking space was within my home premises. Now I have moved to my new flat and my car shares the common parking space in the basement. This is the first time that my car is parked in such a location & as a result I am slightly concerned about its safety.

For this reason, I would like to take your expert opinion that what kind of security system will be best suited for my car. MASS recommended Nippon which is OEM fitment for Maruti now. But they also told me to go for the more expensive one rather than the cheaper model of Nippon for some reason. Also please note that my Car's running is pretty low and hence I would like a system that will not drain the battery when the car is not used for long. Please suggest the best option which provides best security of course, is reliable & does not drains the battery much when the car is idle.

Thanks in anticipation of help.
Regards.
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Old 30th January 2013, 16:48   #35
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Default Re: Which Remote/ Central Lock for old Zen

Hello Saket

Considering the fact that you are worried about the safety of your vehicle, I would recommend that you spend the extra money and go for the higher end version of the MGA Nippon security system. This includes the shock sensors as well, and should give you much more confidence while parking your vehicle in the basement.

I had the same system installed in my Alto K10, and except the nuisance of the alarm going on during Diwali or with kids playing all around (and over?) the car, it gave me the confidence of parking outside the gate (rented house with no covered parking).

I never felt that it was a drain on the battery, but I think that depends on the condition of your battery I suppose. In any case, MGA would give the maximum peace of mind as in case of issues, you can go back to your MASS.
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Old 30th January 2013, 17:05   #36
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Default Re: Which Remote/ Central Lock for old Zen

Thanks Viju for your reply. I would love to go for the MGA system but the only glitch I am having with the system with shock sensors is that probably anybody touching/ shaking the car like even the kids will trigger the siren. This could be troublesome as when I am not around to turn it off, it will keep on sounding. This will create noise for neighbors & drain my battery uselessly. Is there any solution to this problem?

Thanks
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Old 30th January 2013, 18:56   #37
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Default Re: Which Remote/ Central Lock for old Zen

Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
would love to go for the MGA system but the only glitch I am having with the system with shock sensors is that probably anybody touching/ shaking the car like even the kids will trigger the siren. This could be troublesome as when I am not around to turn it off, it will keep on sounding. This will create noise for neighbors & drain my battery uselessly. Is there any solution to this problem?
I have the OEM Nippon system in my Swift and it comes with two stage shock sensor, which can be disabled, kept at stage one or fully enabled (stage two). Do remember that the system doesn't allow you to fully disable just the shock sensor without disabling the remaining security features.

Restricting to stage one would mean it just chirps on impact and would not trigger the noisy siren. In stage two, it beeps first for most shocks and continues to the siren for higher shock levels. Only way to disable even stage 1 chirp is to change it to Valet mode which would make it just a remote lock-unlock system with no security features turned on.

One thing to watch out for, in case you get your watchman to clean your car - cleaning your car without unlocking the car from the remote would trigger your shock sensor and start the siren. I had to manually lock the car whenever I park in my parking lot as my watchman cleans the car everyday early morning. If you have this scenario, better bet would be something without shock sensors.

Moreover, some toddlers might find it entertaining to kick your car whenever they walk past just to set off the alarm and hear the 'music'. I had one such fellow in my previous apartment who used to give me a beaming smile after setting off the alarm.

I have Autocop XS on my Zen which works fine and the Autocop folks seem to be better at service in case of complaints. Not sure about Nippon's service centers.
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Old 30th January 2013, 22:38   #38
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Default Re: Which Remote/ Central Lock for old Zen

Hi Saket,

I have 2005 model Zen which I purchased in March 2008.

The first thing I got installed on my car was a remote/central locking system as I was told this is the most important feature to have in Bangalore.

I got the Hyundai cobra security system installed on 23rd March 2008 and it cost Rs.5500 at that time.

It works great even now after almost 5 years. Only had to replace the battery in the remote once.
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Old 31st January 2013, 09:49   #39
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Default Re: Which Remote/ Central Lock for old Zen

Thanks Viju, Zenren & Vasanth for detailed replies. I am little tilted towards the Nippon system. Will try to get a quote of available systems this weekend, both for Nippon & Autocop. Will update this thread soon.

Thanks a lot for coming in!

Regards.
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Old 4th February 2013, 12:53   #40
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Default Re: Remote locking : Autocop or Xenos or Nippon?

Update: Got a Minda Fort Knox security system. It has central/remote lock, of course, and security system on all doors, bonnet & the hatch. Cost: 3700/- all inclusive. Got 2 chrome plated remote keyrings with the system. Working quite well as of now.

Thanks!
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Old 6th February 2013, 15:38   #41
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Default Re: Remote locking : Autocop or Xenos or Nippon?

Just one question that pops up into my mind...AFAIK all remote locking systems work in the range of 300-500 Mhz frequency. Now there are millions of such systems on the roads. Is it not possible that a 'clash' of frequencies can take place? If this happens, is it not that a car can be opened by some other's remote?

Please enlighten me on this issue.

Regards.
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Old 6th February 2013, 17:17   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Just one question that pops up into my mind...AFAIK all remote locking systems work in the range of 300-500 Mhz frequency. Now there are millions of such systems on the roads. Is it not possible that a 'clash' of frequencies can take place? If this happens, is it not that a car can be opened by some other's remote?

Please enlighten me on this issue.

Regards.
The frequency might be same, but the data transmitted to unlock will be different for every car. So almost impossible to unlock any other car.
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Old 6th February 2013, 18:20   #43
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Default Re: Remote locking : Autocop or Xenos or Nippon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Update: Got a Minda Fort Knox security system. It has central/remote lock, of course, and security system on all doors, bonnet & the hatch. Cost: 3700/- all inclusive. Got 2 chrome plated remote keyrings with the system. Working quite well as of now.

Thanks!
@saket77,
Do post the model number or a pic of the remote if you don't mind so that anyone else planning for the same would have an idea of which model comes at this price.
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Old 7th February 2013, 09:54   #44
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Default Re: Remote locking : Autocop or Xenos or Nippon?

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@saket77,
Do post the model number or a pic of the remote if you don't mind so that anyone else planning for the same would have an idea of which model comes at this price.
Sure Zenren, I will do it tomorrow.

@Chinmay: Can you please elaborate a little more that how systems working in the same frequency range do not interfere with each other?

Regards.
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Old 7th February 2013, 12:44   #45
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Sure Zenren, I will do it tomorrow.

@Chinmay: Can you please elaborate a little more that how systems working in the same frequency range do not interfere with each other?

Regards.
Interference can take place but will never unlock any other car. I think every car has a distinct code designed for it to get locked and unlocked remotely. Some even have rolling codes which almost provide millions of combinations.
Some might even use different frequencies. Like suppose Autocop will use the band from 300 to 325. Then some other might use another band. Even the modulation techniques used would differ according to various brands.

Last edited by chinmaybaikar : 7th February 2013 at 12:59.
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