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Old 5th April 2017, 12:59   #16
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Default re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
They claim lifetime protection "if maintained correctly". Now, why that rider when this coating supposedly withstands temperatures of up to 1400 F/ 760 C, is scratch proof and has a hardness of over 9 on the MoH scale (which they claim incorrectly as the highest because 10 is the top with the diamond)? Also, claims of "liquid" glass and diamonds do not wash with me.
Hardness, 9H are all a fad. Paint is much softer than 9H or 6H even. Now tell me what will happen if one builds a building on a foundation made of marshmallows? The same analogy applies to paint and the so called 9H coatings.

"if maintained correctly" is an important point. Look into their terms and conditions, there probably will be a clause which says warranty is void if our instructions are not followed to the T.

As for the fire trick, did anyone notice the masking tape made of paper is intact after the fire? Lol, this trick reminds me of the trick magicians use where they wrap a coin with a handkerchief, stick a cigarette butt on it and still show everyone how the handkerchief is still intact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonstop-driver View Post
I inquired for a ceramic coat from a local dealer. He offered me a brand called Opti-coat Pro for 22,000 for a Creta with a "5 year warranty if maintained properly". I preferred 3M/ Waxoyl instead because, for that price, you can get their 7-stage treatment 4 times over 5 years.
Every time you polish your car, a layer of paint will be removed. More paint removed, faster your paint will deteriorate. You can get your car polished only a finite amount of times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by praveen789 View Post

Disclaimer 1 - When carrying out the wash process the overriding goal is not to create further swirl marks within your paintwork. Therefore, if something is going to touch the paint it must be soft and clean and used gently

So the bottom line is that this diamond encrusted platinum plated ceramic coating cannot withstand the 2000 year old rag that your car washer uses. While I am not claiming that it should be immune to the elbow grease your car washer applies, claiming that it is super effective is incorrect as well if you have to be really careful of maintaining it.

My opinion is that if you have to be particular of maintaining things, you might as well follow the instructions mentioned on their website itself directly - http://ceramicpro.co.in/post-treatement-care/ 'without' doing the coating
I had a look into the link you posted - It says :

Quote:
Do not use Heavy Degreasers, chemical cleaners, Household detergents (surf), Soap Bars, as they may risk damage the coating.
So hitting the paint with a bottle cap or setting the panel on fire does nothing, but surf does?

That page also mentions Meguiars Hyperwash as pH neutral and being safe to use, which is not true. Hyperwash is alkaline and even slightly higher than normal dilution is enough to strip waxes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
2. Measurable Thickness – Coatings can add few microns (thickness is measured in microns) to the paint surface and so most of the abuse it takes and may not go to the paint level.
This is utter hogwash. Pray tell me how a 30ml bottle, whose contents are 50% solvents will put even one micron layer thick coat on a car? Someone had done the math and said one will need 3 liters of such coating to get the 2-3 microns thickness almost every manufacturer claims. Infact most coating companies are dropping this claim and dont mention the amount of thickness added.

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Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
Has anyone tested the durability of the product? Lets not talk about ideal conditions. How long does this coating last in real world? Maybe not scrubbing with a rag, but in case I wash the car with plain water and with a good set of MF cloth, how long will the beading effect/protection last?
I have used coatings for almost every manufacturer out there and there is no way any Indian car will come close to their claims unless it has been properly pampered and/or never taken out of the garage. The combination of different products/application techniques/prep/maintenance is too much to give a general estimate for any product.

If you're going to use plain water and MF cloths, coatings aren't for you. As much as the coating companies claim they add protection, maintenance is equally important.

Most paint damage happens while washing. Improper techniques/subpar songe/mitt/microfiber clothes make up most of the swirl marks you see on the paint. That's the main reason why I wash my car only once in 4-6 weeks no matter how bad the car looks

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
Considering the cost of application, and further maintenance(specialised washing solutions) and the actual benefits, it is maybe useful for high end cars. Not sure if its worth it for a regular A,B,C segment car.
Some people like to have their cars shiny and they might feel the price to pay for the detailing is worth it. Its a highly subjective affair.

Last edited by SunnyBoi : 5th April 2017 at 13:03.
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Old 5th April 2017, 13:24   #17
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Default Ceramic Pro Coating - Is it really useful?

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Very curious about ceramic coating as I don't have firsthand experience with it.

1. Which brand did you get and how much did you pay?
Ceramic Pro , Indiranagar. They have various packages stating from 25k to 100 k.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
2. Can you replace the ceramic coating after say, 5 years? If you want the new look again?
Yes. But the entire prep work needs to be carried out again. The work is more so in detailing than in the actual product by itself. All scratches and swirl marks have to be removed.

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
3. Why choose expensive ceramic coating over detailing the car every 6 months (a practice I follow)?
Honestly no answer to that. I used to follow your practice of a 6 month detailing work. I tried it out because it's probably a 3 year interval and have a after coating maintenance product called CeramicPro sport. It's like liquid polish that you add on when you think you need it.

Very time swirl marks are removed /paint correction done ,they are actually removing a bit of the clear coat. So the longer something holds up without swirls and minor scratches the better.

Most detaining centres now employ untrained staff and have become mass volume outlets. I actually am scared to leave the cars there and walk away. How is it possible to do a paint correction and detail a car with Trizact as 3 M calls it in 3 hrs ?

Last edited by Rehaan : 5th April 2017 at 16:25. Reason: Changing to quote format. We discourage in-line replies, as it gets difficult to read and causes further problems when quoted
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Old 5th April 2017, 13:37   #18
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Default re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

The minimum for the Honda City is ₹26K and for Platinum its ₹90K! No wonder you see more high end cars going for this! It's shockingly expensive.
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Old 5th April 2017, 14:15   #19
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Default re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

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Originally Posted by Durango Dude View Post
No wonder you see more high end cars going for this!
Quite the other way round I feel. Everyone wants more expensive stuff for their more expensive cars, be it for pride or show off. A normal 3M treatment worth 10k was a luxury few years back, now it is seen as a cheap treatment for such high end cars.

Does anyone really NEED these treatments? I doubt it. I believe a basic treatment once in a while (not too often like others mentioned above) along with good care taken during regular days is enough to maintain the cars.
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Old 5th April 2017, 15:38   #20
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Default re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

OCD (C for Cleaning) for dummies

As a person who at one point thought of letting go my IT job & get into full time car & motorcycle detailing on obsession & then used brains...let me admit, friend of mine gave me a good gyan on difference between insanity & practicality, I had to let go on my obsession. So let me share some of my practical experience here...

I was & still an OCD extremist!! Just like a drunkard who goes shivering without his daily dose, I go mad & my entire attitude changes if I don't spend time cleaning (let me refrain from calling detailing as I don't use compounds & DA) my vehicles.

Let's understand why these are required in first place?
1. Get the car to the road, the paint or the looks are waiting to be damaged by bird dropping, tree sap, tar spot, iron particles, salt, contaminated water, even fuel basically every other thing on road
2. If I'm particular about the looks of the car, I should not be taking it out. Unfortunately that cannot be done & right from plastics to leather to metal to glass everything is going to get damaged soon on prolonged usage
3. The good news is, if there're some protections done, then the damages can be prolonged for much longer than one can think off. The term longer cannot be quantified depending upon what kind of protection is done & how frequently they're done

Having understood as why the protection needs to be done, let's consider 3 type of folks who needs detailing
A. I don't care about looks, they're going to go dull anyway - We leave this category of folks as they might not be interested in this topic as well

B. I do care about looks, but can't spend time on cleaning - Here's where the professional detailers make money. Take the car to a professional, they work on it & run their business. However what needs to be done, how it needs to be done, up to what level of protection needs to be done is beyond the scope here.

C. I do care about looks & I spend my life cleaning cars/motorcycles - Less said better about this insane group. They spend money like hell on chemicals without having their food & water.

D. This is the most sensible folks on planet, we'll get to this later - Most practical heads or most people fall in this category; they strike a fine balance between going to a detailer & getting things done by themselves

Having seen 3 type of folks, let's categorize the durability of protection when the car is maintained with a simple water wash once a month
1. Permanent - Ceramic coating/Quartz etc fall into this (Though many folks call ceramic coatings are permanent, there's nothing called permanent when our own Millkway changes its position); 1.5 years
2. Advanced Protection - Sealant falls into this category; 4-6 months
3. Basic protection - Wax typically; 1-2 months

Obviously, longer the durability, the higher the price, better the result & let's not touchbase upon shoddy work here. And the time frame I've stated above are based upon the industry best products that I've experienced & not on fake formula 1 or genuine basic products like Motomax or industry's standard like 3M

So, now talking practically, here's a guideline as who should opt for what? First thing first!! For someone with lots of moolah, go for industry's best, ceramic coating, no second thoughts, whether or not the car is maintained. For the category B folks, again visit the detailer, depending upon your budget & cleaning constraints, work out an optimum protection plan. For category C folks, they know it all, do it all, so anything & everything is done by them at their will at home, mostly professional detailers who're obsessed falls into this category.

So the last yet yet majority of the folks fall into D category. So for them the below high level guidelines should help
1. Chart out how many times & how much effort you're willing to put on the vehicle every month/week
2. What high quality products are you willing to buy & use on your own
3. How much you're willing to pay to a professional detailer

Remember 1+2 & 3 are inversely proportional, so if one goes up, other goes down, so gauge yourself on that scale

Last but not the least, here're a pocket guide to keep a tidy car for a long time...
1. Ceramic coating + self maintenance with high quality products + maintenance package with detailer = 5+ years of tidy car
1. Ceramic coating + self maintenance with high quality products = 4-5 years of tidy car
2. Ceramic coating + watchman wash + maintenance package with detailer = 3-4 years of tidy car
3. Sealant + self maintenance with high quality products + maintenance package with detailer = 2-2.5 years of tidy car
4. Sealant + self maintenance with high quality products = 1.5-2 years of tidy car
5. Sealant + watchman wash + maintenance package with detailer = 1-1.5 years of tidy car
6. Wax + self maintenance with high quality products = 8-12 months of tidy car

Last edited by aargee : 5th April 2017 at 15:42.
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Old 5th April 2017, 15:40   #21
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Default re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Quite the other way round I feel. Everyone wants more expensive stuff for their more expensive cars, be it for pride or show off. A normal 3M treatment worth 10k was a luxury few years back, now it is seen as a cheap treatment for such high end cars.

Does anyone really NEED these treatments? I doubt it. I believe a basic treatment once in a while (not too often like others mentioned above) along with good care taken during regular days is enough to maintain the cars.
With almost everybody doing these treatments, I am feeling ashamed that i have not done anything at all for my 4+ year old Polo.

Slightly OT: Is it really proven that car under bodies will rust away after 7-8 years, if we do not go for these treatments.
At the time of buying the car VW was proudly proclaiming some 7 years anti rust warranty on it's cars. Have I made a mistake of taking that marketing claim seriously?

Last edited by abhishek46 : 5th April 2017 at 15:57.
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Old 5th April 2017, 15:45   #22
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Default re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

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Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
With almost everybody doing these treatments, I am feeling ashamed that i have not done anything at all for my 4+ year old Polo
Nothing to feel ashamed; its your choice to have your car your way

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
Is it really proven that car under bodies will rust away after 7-8 years, if we do not go for these treatments
Underbody treatment is different from detailing; but get the under treatment done; 4 years is not late.

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Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
At the time of buying the car VW...of taking that marketing claim seriously?
Their marketing holds good...under USTC...Under Standard Testing Conditions
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Old 5th April 2017, 15:55   #23
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Default re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

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Originally Posted by Durango Dude View Post
The minimum for the Honda City is ₹26K and for Platinum its ₹90K! No wonder you see more high end cars going for this! It's shockingly expensive.
I rather get my car resprayed once in 5 years then. What SunnyBoi says is very true.

Keep your car waxed once in 4-6 months and that should keep your paint looking fresh for a long time.

Slightly off topic here - Why cant we use this stuff on our mobile phones? We wont need screen guards or covers.

Last edited by Captain Slow : 5th April 2017 at 15:59.
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Old 5th April 2017, 16:41   #24
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Default re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

With quotes ranging from Rs. 10,000 to Rs. 100,000, one gets an impression that this liquid is quite magical (and hence expensive). But go to www.amazon.com (USA site) and do a Google search for the brand names. Most of them cost between $50 to $100 for a 30 ml bottle. And I'm not even sure if the detailers use one entire bottle on a car.

So why such huge difference in quotes?

1) What you are mostly paying for is labor charges. A good detailer takes 4 to 8 hours to work on a car. You are paying for his skill / knowledge.
2) Take a look at Ceramic Pro Detailing shop pics posted by BHPian Arjun_Reddy. You are paying a part of franchise's rent too. And part of employee expenses. Not to forget that the entrepreneur is in this business to make money (just saying, nothing wrong in it), and not just recover his investments.
3) For high end cars, I guess they will use a couple of bottles of this stuff, especially under their 'Gold' or 'Platinum' packages

Personally, I got it done at a friend's place (means I probably got a 'FRIEND' discount too) who happens to be a detailing enthusiast (like BHPian aargee). If you want value for money, you need to find a person (or business) who doesn't have too many overheads (expenses).

Last edited by smartcat : 5th April 2017 at 16:47.
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Old 5th April 2017, 17:21   #25
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Default re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

Wheeler Cleaners have quoted 8k for a ceramic coating for my City. I have used their detailing services (not ceramic) on the Ritz and am very happy with the same even 6 months later.
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Old 5th April 2017, 18:01   #26
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Default re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonstop-driver View Post
I inquired for a ceramic coat from a local dealer. He offered me a brand called Opti-coat Pro for 22,000 for a Creta with a "5 year warranty if maintained properly". I preferred 3M/ Waxoyl instead because, for that price, you can get their 7-stage treatment 4 times over 5 years.
Did you get 3M or Waxoyl?
If Waxoyl then from where can we get that since Opulent doesn't seem to have dedicated service stations like 3M?

And does 3M have custom plans or fixed ones?
Need to visit them soon.
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Old 5th April 2017, 18:12   #27
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Default Ceramic Pro Coating - Is it really useful?

Let's keep the cost aside. I guess everyone in the detailing business is in it to make some money.

Though I have bitten the bullet albeit with a very friendly discount , the purpose of this thread is to ideally see if these tall claims are true and the products really protect the car paint in the long run as compared to a sealant or a wax.

My car took 3 bottles of 9h and one bottle of Ceramic pro Light. The guys at Indiranagar also coated the interior Veneer trim. I really wanted this covered as it's high gloss finish and very susceptible to scratches.

I will do a detailed write up after testing it out for another 3 months. 5-6 months should be ideal for a review.

Last edited by Arjun Reddy : 5th April 2017 at 18:34.
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Old 5th April 2017, 19:09   #28
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Default re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

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Originally Posted by aargee View Post
OCD (C for Cleaning) for dummies
Having talked more on the pro effect about keeping the car clean, let me also highlight some of the negatives here
  1. Practically speaking most people, on an average, change their car in 5-7 years time. From my experience, most people looking for used cars look for one thing primarily - PRICE. Ofcourse there're some patience buyers who look for neatly maintained car as well, which is less in the crowd. So for a quick disposal point of view, a neatly maintained car is as good as not maintained car!!
  2. Bland truth is, no matter how immaculate the car is maintained, 50% of the blemishes, scratches & paint chips happen from ASC & remaining 50% at public & open parking lots such as malls, city & school parking center, which are highly inevitable
  3. There's a limit to which paint corrections can be done, beyond which they cannot be done & in real world, unlike YouTube videos, a FAMILY car can NEVER be maintained in such pristine conditions.
  4. Ever wondered why is it rare to see a video of a mini van being detailed?
  5. All it takes is a very accident in form of a single brush off from a motorcycle, one careless cyclist, one happy go lucky school child to cause a scratch. Did you know that what cannot be done by a coin can be done by a soda cap
  6. Last but not the least, a dull car can still be restored 50%+ times better even after 5-7 years (mean to say at the time of selling) by means of detailing, which is a one time cost with an intended purpose, provided there're aren't deep scratches & paint chipping. So in reality, all the time the money spent on detailing the car to perfection through the years will be way too high compared to one time detailing at the time of sale, if that's what one intents to do
  7. So is detailing a money swindling scheme? Yes!! Yes, provided, the cost of dining at a star hotel, parking fee at airports, excess baggage fee in aircraft, cost of iPhone, cost of BMW/Merc & even cost of our election & Indian tax systems are called fair priced!!

Last edited by aargee : 5th April 2017 at 19:11.
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Old 5th April 2017, 19:26   #29
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Default re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

Sunnyboi : While you are very well versed wrt car detailing, one point of yours is a bit doubtful. You stated that you would need 3 lts of coating solution to achieve 3 microns thickness, then conservatively, because it is thicker you would need 20-30lts of car paint to cover an entire car to the average thickness of 100 microns. Or am I going wrong somewhere ?
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Old 5th April 2017, 19:40   #30
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The major difference between the regular waxing vs opti coat that I have got on my car from a detailing enthusiast is that car is less dust magnet now. Having opti coat has become boon in cleaning the car. Even washing with plain water and wiping off the car with good micro fibre cloth makes the car look like it has come just out of a detailing session. As smartcat rightly said, what you pay for is mainly for the skilled work along with the coating ingredients.
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