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Old 10th April 2017, 21:19   #76
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Default Re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

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These detailing guys charge exorbitantly . 200 TO 300 % profit is not ethical.
I agree with you on the exorbitant 200% profit, but then, I've been thinking if the cost is justified. Let me jot down the points, probably other guys who're thinking on same lines can pitch in, if I've missed any. Pls understand, despite a DIY guy, I'm trying to see the other side of the coin...
1. Pay wages to employees who carry out the job
2. Franchisee or product associated fee in form of training, inventory cost, import duties etc
3. Rent, electricity, water if any & other daily operational expenses
4. Maintain a dust free environment with or without A/C (this is very difficult IMHO)
5. Maintenance in form of cleaning the place, wash mitts, pads, MF, DA, IR & pads including the buckets. Remember Surf Excel, Ariel damages these materials

Again, not to argue, car/motorcycle detailing, IMHO, falls under luxury or not under essential needs/service, which is like eating out at a Meridian or Taj or cinematography at wedding; dining at such places aren't cheap either.

Bottom line, the goal of any business is to make money be it 20% or 200% profit; so those who own a Maserati or Maruti, the choice is made based on affordable or passion or opt out & walk away.
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Old 11th April 2017, 14:10   #77
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Default Re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

Can any one shed some light on using this coating on vintage, classic or old cars ( 30 years + older) ?
Would it be technically wise to do such detailing on original paint which has faced natures forces for so many years ?
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Old 11th April 2017, 14:29   #78
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Default Re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

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Well I don't use the car everyday to work. Plus I have a covered parking for the car. On days that I take the car to office, I just wipe it clean using a jopasu duster and a microfibre cloth. Roughly it takes 10-15 mins. So whenever I take the car out, I factor in those 15 minutes.

I do wash the car twice a month on Sunday evenings or mornings depending on how time permits. Sometimes its one bucket wash myself or since the detailer from where I got my car detailed is stone's throw away, I take the car to him and as a courtesy he gets the car washed for me through his boys.

However till date I have not used any shampoo to wash the car. Just plain water does the job all the times.
This sounds pretty good. My cars are parked in a basement too but still end up gathering dust.

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His outlet is in Borivali East, dattani park and is called PMP Car Care. Do let me know if you are interested, I can PM you his number.
Hey I live in Borivali East but don't remember seeing this store at Dattani Park. What brand of ceramic products does he use? If you live in Borivali, I would love to see your car which would help me take a call. Please do PM me the number of PMP Cars.
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Old 12th April 2017, 12:22   #79
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Default Re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

Now Ultimate Detailerz of Bangalore have come up with a video, showing the merits of their Car pro CQuartz coating.



Regards,
Shashi

Last edited by Leoshashi : 12th April 2017 at 12:34.
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Old 12th April 2017, 17:50   #80
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Default Re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

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If you observe the difference between both these videos, the former one is to set ablaze the bonnet after applying a layer & the later is TESTING the sheet of metal, which is like a piece of bonnet & burning it after applying the coat. In the latter video, the metal is burnt until it begins to give up compared to blazing the former for few minutes.

Taking a neutral stance, what does this mean in real life is, the protection the coat offers when the car is being exposed under Sunlight or Weather for prolonged period of time.
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Old 12th April 2017, 18:15   #81
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Default Re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

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Originally Posted by aargee View Post
If you observe the difference between both these videos, the former one is to set ablaze the bonnet after applying a layer & the later is TESTING the sheet of metal, which is like a piece of bonnet & burning it after applying the coat. In the latter video, the metal is burnt until it begins to give up compared to blazing the former for few minutes.

Taking a neutral stance, what does this mean in real life is, the protection the coat offers when the car is being exposed under Sunlight or Weather for prolonged period of time.
Completely agree, Sir.

After doing a fair amount of 'research' on these things, and talking to many people in this industry, I have come to a conclusion:

-Ceramic coatings form a hard layer over the clearcoat.

-It isn't scratch/swirl/fire proof, but will resist to a certain degree. It will certainly protect more than a simple clear coat/wax over clear.

-Swirls/scratches if endured, will mostly be on this coating, rather than the clear coat. Needless to say, polishing done to remove will affect this top layer of ceramic, rather than the original paint.

-All these 9H hardness etc are nothing more than a branding exercise.

-There is nothing like warranty. You get what you pay for!! For example, for one time visit, if the cost is x, if you opt for 5 year warranty/5 year service, it becomes 5x. Some companies take 5x from you and give you 5 year warranty, whereas others charge you for one time visit and thus quote x amount. This is the reason why brand A charges say 13k, whereas Brand B charges 50k(with warranty). I also noted that whenever this warranty thing kicks in, it also brings with it a plethora of fine-print "Terms & conditions".

So rates for a single time use & service is mostly same for all companies(around 10k for a large hatch, and around 15k for a compact SUV).

Regards,
Shashi

PS: Some videos which I saw recently over the same topic. Most of these are from CarPro & Ultimate Detailers Bangalore.





Done up by Ultimate Detailers, Bangalore








https://www.facebook.com/ultimatedet...2374827795063/

Harpic on car video
https://www.facebook.com/ultimatedet...2738343425377/

Last edited by Leoshashi : 12th April 2017 at 18:36.
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Old 12th April 2017, 18:28   #82
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Default Re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

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Originally Posted by Leoshashi View Post
After doing a fair amount of 'research' on these things, and talking to many people in this industry, I have come to a conclusion:
=========
So rates for a single time use & service is mostly same for all companies(around 10k for a large hatch, and around 15k for a compact SUV).

Regards,
Shashi
These are exactly my views.

These coatings will help maintain the original coat by sacrificing themselves since the coating itself is not scratch proof.

So overall these may be a good option if one doesn't​ have enough time and expertise to wax the car regularly, as opposed to polishing which should not be required much if waxing has been done regularly.

But the exaggerated claims should be taken with a pinch of salt.
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Old 12th April 2017, 19:39   #83
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Default Re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

If my car catches fire, the last thing I am going to worry about is the shine!

Otherwise, the demos I have seen (have only watched one of those recently posted ones so far) are hugely impressive. Obviously they would be. If there is a demo video for old-fashioned wax, it will look wonderful too! That's what demos are for.

Having said that, even with expectations adjusted to 45%, if I could afford it I'd be tempted. If it's half as good as they say it is...
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Old 12th April 2017, 23:16   #84
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If these coatings are as good as claimed (and no drawbacks), I wonder why high end car makers like Audi/BMW/Mercedes don't do a factory application of these coatings on their cars? I am doubtful that an additional cost of 15-20k per car will hold them back, or a potential buyer. And they would get to claim "Scratch resistant paint that holds its looks for 5 years, etc" in their marketing campaigns. Looks are extremely important in that segment, so why wouldn't they want to do something that enhances the looks of the car for 5 years? Or do they already have this type of coating on their cars ?
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Old 12th April 2017, 23:30   #85
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Default Re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

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If these coatings are as good as claimed (and no drawbacks), I wonder why high end car makers like Audi/BMW/Mercedes don't do a factory application of these coatings on their cars? I am doubtful that an additional cost of 15-20k per car will hold them back, or a potential buyer. And they would get to claim "Scratch resistant paint that holds its looks for 5 years, etc" in their marketing campaigns. Looks are extremely important in that segment, so why wouldn't they want to do something that enhances the looks of the car for 5 years? Or do they already have this type of coating on their cars ?
May be because they won't want this to happen, as they can earn much more while repairing a normal paint job. We all know OEMs earn much more from service, compared to sales. This is purely my own guess, I cannot confirm the exact reasons. But it's a very valid point which you have made.
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Old 13th April 2017, 01:45   #86
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Default Re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

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If these coatings are as good as claimed (and no drawbacks), I wonder why high end car makers like Audi/BMW/Mercedes don't do a factory application of these coatings on their cars? ... ... ...
Because they are not that high-end? Such makes may be for the wealthier end of it, but they are still mass producers of vehicles, not the super-exclusive sector.
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Old 13th April 2017, 02:36   #87
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Default Re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

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If these coatings are as good as claimed (and no drawbacks), I wonder why high end car makers like Audi/BMW/Mercedes don't do a factory application of these coatings on their cars?
That's because they aren't as good as claimed, and very honestly I feel its silly. A paint process involves primer, 3-4 coats of paint done robotically and a clear coat, in my view more than enough to protect the body from rusting. As for the ceramic/quartz coating, that can chip off too provided there is even a light pressure, its a steep price to pay for something which hardly adds any value.

There have been cases where hard teflon coatings themselves have cracked in the sun, they'd look like a spiders web and then would need to be sanded off. Following that the "detailing" industry came up with a new gimmick, the quartz/ceramic coating where microns of reflective protection are added/bonded to the paint so as to create a high-sheen, protective layer against UV rays and light dust particles. The brands themselves will not touch these processes from a mile for 2 reasons :

1) They wear off, most coatings fade over time since they lose the bonding function due to heat and weather fluctuations. If the company themselves did the coating (which is useless to begin with) they'd be liable to redo it for the customer or get blamed for not doing so.

2) High VOC (Volatile Organic Compounds) in the production process - this layering is time consuming if I'm not mistaken and aerosolized quartz/ceramic particles are heavily damaging to the ecosystem and immediate surroundings since they are effectively, powdered, non-biodegradable material. I know a thing or 2 about VOC standards since I was in a related industry and I've researched heavily into LEED standards (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design).

Again, I'm not denying that they'll add sheen and lustre to the car body, but I'd rather leave the body as it is, this is truly an unnecessary procedure unless one derives happiness out of it and the money spent for it, in which case it is ok.

Its time to research deeper into every service rather than blindly believe that the next "breakthrough" is here, people today are out to do business mostly only for money, not for job satisfaction or transparency.

As for luxury cars, Rolls-Royce did release the latest Phantom with diamond-black paint I guess, the paint had actual powdered diamond mixed into it so that a high-lustre finish can be the end result due to diamond specks catching light. Other than the novelty value and waste of a natural gem,there is zero scope for protection by this one, as well - pure superficiality.

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Old 13th April 2017, 07:09   #88
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Default Re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

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...If these coatings are as good as claimed (and no drawbacks), I wonder why high end car makers like Audi/BMW/Mercedes don't do a factory application of these coatings on their cars? .........
Similarly, no dealer does it inspite of the fact that all of them already have infrastructure. Even though every dealer actively pushes for 3M paint protection but hardly anyone for ceramic/c quartz. 200% margin should be highly attractive for dealers. And, customers will be more willing to spend that kind of money there instead of at 'detailers'.

Last edited by DwarkaDelhiWala : 13th April 2017 at 07:12.
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Old 13th April 2017, 13:58   #89
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Default Re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

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That's because they aren't as good as claimed, and very honestly I feel its silly. A paint process involves primer, 3-4 coats of paint done robotically and a clear coat, in my view more than enough to protect the body from rusting. ... ... ...
It can't even protect itself from bird crap --- which falls out of the air onto every car ever made. Nowhere near "good enough."

And why do you mention rust? rust is nothing to do with this.
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Old 13th April 2017, 14:13   #90
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Default Re: Ceramic Coating - Is it really useful?

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Similarly, no dealer does it inspite of the fact that all of them already have infrastructure. Even though every dealer actively pushes for 3M paint protection but hardly anyone for ceramic/c quartz. 200% margin should be highly attractive for dealers. And, customers will be more willing to spend that kind of money there instead of at 'detailers'.
Prohibitionary pricing and lack of market for these products.

Most independent detailers have started pushing for these products because they know their customers are aware of the benefits of detailing. I contacted 3 well known detailers in Delhi with open-ended questions and all of them pushed me towards ceramic coating, while the dealer was still pushing 'teflon'
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