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Old 22nd April 2017, 21:39   #16
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Default Re: How come no one modifies the Steering Wheel's feel & feedback?

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Originally Posted by sinhead View Post
Lets say, I just disconnect the "power assistance" for the steering (hps). No assistance at all.
Is it that simple?

What could be the risk of this? Yes, the steering at standstill will be very heavy? But what else?
Certain parts in power assisted steering system were not designed to take the load of 'no assist' condition for regular / longer usage.

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Would it be as simple to disconnect, in case of an ES?
Yes, simpler than a HPS. Remove / disconnect the PS fuse.
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Old 23rd April 2017, 10:57   #17
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Originally Posted by Mr.Boss View Post
Certain parts in power assisted steering system were not designed to take the load of 'no assist' condition for regular / longer usage.


e.

Could you give us an example of such a part?
Jeroen
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Old 23rd April 2017, 16:27   #18
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Default Re: How come no one modifies the Steering Wheel's feel & feedback?

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Originally Posted by Mr.Boss View Post
Certain parts in power assisted steering system were not designed to take the load of 'no assist' condition for regular / longer usage.
As far as my knowledge tell me, the load on the components downstream of motor( from column onward for a column mounted EPS) All parts take the same amount of load irrespective of the motor as the motor is merely helping to take the load off the steering wheel. The components would go through the same load irrespective of the motor working. Components upstream of the motor ( half shaft in column and steering wheel) are the only ones that MIGHT be designed for lesser load.

Correct me if wrong.
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Old 23rd April 2017, 16:33   #19
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Default Re: How come no one modifies the Steering Wheel's feel & feedback?

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Could you give us an example of such a part?
Quote:
Originally Posted by racerdabba View Post
As far as my knowledge tell me, the load on the components downstream of motor( from column onward for a column mounted EPS) All parts take the same amount of load irrespective of the motor as the motor is merely helping to take the load off the steering wheel. The components would go through the same load irrespective of the motor working. Components upstream of the motor ( half shaft in column and steering wheel) are the only ones that MIGHT be designed for lesser load.

Correct me if wrong.
You are right.
In case if R-EPS and HPAS the entire column (in most cases) is designed to work with assist performance.
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Old 23rd April 2017, 19:36   #20
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Default Re: How come no one modifies the Steering Wheel's feel & feedback?

I'm a novice in this, but some facts from my experience in driving BMWs. An old E30 steering was superb, an E36 was good while the E90 which I have now is comparatively tighter and lacks the precision of the two older cars. But the E36 had extremely low profile tyres 40 aspect ratios while the E90 is a taller 55, so would that be a factor ?

Last edited by rxpaul : 23rd April 2017 at 19:38.
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Old 23rd April 2017, 20:23   #21
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. The components would go through the same load irrespective of the motor working. Components upstream of the motor ( half shaft in column and steering wheel) are the only ones that MIGHT be designed for lesser load.

.

That's my thinking too and I would find it hard to believe that the column and or the steering wheel would not be up to the task in case the power assist fails.

Jeroen
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Old 23rd April 2017, 21:12   #22
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Default Re: How come no one modifies the Steering Wheel's feel & feedback?

There are better ways to adjust or fine tune the steering feel than playing with the rack. Infact the rack is the last thing you should touch.
1. Tires - LowProfiles and more width tires help tremendously.
2. Toe correction (toe out) in alignment also helps improve steering response.
3. Caster Correction kits or Anti Lift Kits help improve caster angle directly impacting steering feel.
4. Anti roll bars help reduce body roll and can transfer grip to the front or rear wheels depending on your setup needs and again will impact steering feel.

Only after the above options are exhausted should you go and try messing with the rack.

On some VW cars with EPS the steering wheel feedback can be enhanced via software coding as VW uses the same EPS program and hardware in several different models ranging from sport to comfort cars. The way the change the steering feel in each is via different coding on the control module.
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Old 24th April 2017, 10:00   #23
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Default Re: How come no one modifies the Steering Wheel's feel & feedback?

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
That's my thinking too and I would find it hard to believe that the column and or the steering wheel would not be up to the task in case the power assist fails.
Part / system will be designed to work even at Power assist failure condition, but for some (short) time.

There are 2 different parameters considered for any part design, Strength & Durability. Part / System needs sufficient strength to tackle the assist failure condition and it is considered that the failure will be corrected ASAP.

Discussion here is about disconnecting the assist for a long run where durability matters.
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Old 25th April 2017, 00:48   #24
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Default Re: How come no one modifies the Steering Wheel's feel & feedback?

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Originally Posted by Mr.Boss View Post
Part / system will be designed to work even at Power assist failure condition, but for some (short) time.

There are 2 different parameters considered for any part design, Strength & Durability. Part / System needs sufficient strength to tackle the assist failure condition and it is considered that the failure will be corrected ASAP.
.
Column and steering wheel are passive bits. Strength has to be sufficient due to safety. Durability is a function of wear and tear. There is virtually no wear and tear on the column and steering wheel as such. It’s mostly about additional torque. I would doubt very much that such a little bit of extra torque is going to do any harm. Truth is that cars that are designed to work with power assisted steering are a real PITA to drive with no power steering. So everybody will get it fixed quickly. I’m sure the manual will say you will need to get it fixed quickly, if it says anything at all. That’s probably more about safety issues with how such a car steers with no power steering and the wear and tear on the driver than anything else.

Even so, when it comes to steering safety first of course.

There are several cars on the market today that have adjustable steering feel. On some cars it’s more or less automatic, based upon speed. (E.g. my Jaguar provides more steering power at low speeds (e.g. parking) then when I barrel down the motorway at 150 MPH.

But there are also some cars on the market (not sure about Indian market) that allow you to adjust the steering feel through driver controlled inputs. E.g. Seat some of the newer models, Fiat 500 (which I think is essentially a manually selectable Parking assist steering mode).

Apparently, Hyundai has been offering driver selectable steering mode since 2014.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/final...any-condition/

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 25th April 2017 at 00:51.
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Old 25th April 2017, 08:57   #25
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Default Re: How come no one modifies the Steering Wheel's feel & feedback?

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Durability is a function of wear and tear.
Durability is not limited to wear and tear alone, fatigue as well. Cars that you mentioned were designed to work on multiple modes (including no-assist mode) and what I'm speaking are the regular ones which were mostly made to cost (at least in recent days)

I don't wish to drag off-topic anymore. If people are ready to experiment on such cars, take necessary precaution and care.
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Old 25th April 2017, 10:08   #26
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Default Re: How come no one modifies the Steering Wheel's feel & feedback?

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Originally Posted by Mr.Boss View Post
Durability is not limited to wear and tear alone, fatigue as well. .
Fatigue is, as my earlier post, a function of torque.

But as I said, safety first.

Jeroen
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Old 26th April 2017, 20:48   #27
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Default Re: How come no one modifies the Steering Wheel's feel & feedback?

Good topic - anyone done any mods for the vague steering of the THAR CRDe? Ive already tinkered around with the WA, WB, Change in Tyre pressures etc.

I find the vehicle Ok under 100kph, but anything over 120 is an overkill in the vehicle. I believe the front IFS also plays party to the steering feel

Have toyed around with the idea of changing the rack gearing but not found time yet for that experiment.
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Old 27th April 2017, 07:49   #28
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Default Re: How come no one modifies the Steering Wheel's feel & feedback?

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Originally Posted by headers View Post
I find the vehicle Ok under 100kph, but anything over 120 is an overkill in the vehicle. I believe the front IFS also plays party to the steering feel.
Why modify a Thar to be a feelsome, sharp and quick handler? The charm of being in a mud-plugger lies in its ability to potter about at 80 kmph or so (legal speeds btw) and handle the terrain, rocks and gravel when the occasion calls for it. I guess the driving experience in your Gypsy would've been about the same?

Some sharpness/quickness will go due to its higher sidewall tyres and if you make a Thar more car-like to drive (which seems impossible seeing as it is, a ladder-frame chassis), you take away the true magic of such a vehicle. Also the Thar steering gears should be long/slow to increase the precision and predictability when off-roading. I'd keep it as stock as possible, this tall setup and chassis cannot become car-like.
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Old 28th April 2017, 14:01   #29
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Default Re: How come no one modifies the Steering Wheel's feel & feedback?

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Why modify a Thar to be a feelsome, sharp and quick handler? The charm of being in a mud-plugger lies in its ability to potter about at 80 kmph or so (legal speeds btw) and handle the terrain, rocks and gravel when the occasion calls for it. I guess the driving experience in your Gypsy would've been about the same?

Some sharpness/quickness will go due to its higher sidewall tyres and if you make a Thar more car-like to drive (which seems impossible seeing as it is, a ladder-frame chassis), you take away the true magic of such a vehicle. Also the Thar steering gears should be long/slow to increase the precision and predictability when off-roading. I'd keep it as stock as possible, this tall setup and chassis cannot become car-like.
The Thar's steering is way too slow for city speeds. Nothing happens for half a turn, especially if one has the heavier 8J steel wheels like I do. Just some more responsive-ness would make it much more fun to drive. IMHO, along with some responsive-ness from the steering, if the turbo lag is minimized with a remap, the Thar would be a hoot to drive. I use the Thar for occasional off-road jaunts, basically to go where regular cars can't. For someone like me - and perhaps a lot of of other Thar owners - a quicker steering would make everyday drives more enjoyable. :-)

Cheers,

Jay
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Old 22nd May 2017, 19:16   #30
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Default Re: How come no one modifies the Steering Wheel's feel & feedback?

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Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
. I guess the driving experience in your Gypsy would've been about the same?
The gypsy is a dream on the roads with its taut suspension and non power assisted steering.

Again, can't be compared to the Thar which is a different kinda vehicle to the Gypsy. The rev friendly petrol engine and it's shorter throw gearbox allows faster shifts both ON road and OFF road.

The Thar steering is fairly vague!!

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