Auto Lighting thread : Post all queries about automobile lighting here

[gbpscars]

After a small mishap at a confusingly lit patch of the Sion-Panvel highway near Kalamboli, escaping luckily by a few scratches on the right side of my OHC's bumper, I decided to upgrade my lighting the very next day.

The mishap could be due to all these put together,.. my speed, poor lighting from headlamp (even with an Osram SilverStar) and the 30% tint on the front glass .

Highway drivers who do a good 100kmph with a 60/55 W OEM headlamp will have come across patches on a highway wherein the Sodium-vapour lights cast mixed shadows and dim zones nullifying the effect of the headlamp throw. This happens normally at the right judging distance for a driver travelling at that speed.

Thanks to this wonderful thread with lots of information, I could go to shop with the exact details. I fit my car with the Philips 100/90 bulbs on Roots ceramic holder. I couldnt get the complete harness kit from Roots and did not hunt around much, instead chose the Mico 200W Relay and fuses and 12 gauge wiring in a protective sleeve.

Some good soul did the job very well. No heating found anywhere, except the headlamp glass is a bit hotter than before.

I can see far ahead and lots better through my dark tints.

Thanks to all who suggested this, and apologies to those whom I may glare my headlamps at.

[Epic]

Originally Posted by gbpscars

After a small mishap at a confusingly lit patch of the Sion-Panvel highway near Kalamboli, escaping luckily by a few scratches on the right side of my OHC's bumper, I decided to upgrade my lighting the very next day.

The mishap could be due to all these put together,.. my speed, poor lighting from headlamp (even with an Osram SilverStar) and the 30% tint on the front glass .

Highway drivers who do a good 100kmph with a 60/55 W OEM headlamp will have come across patches on a highway wherein the Sodium-vapour lights cast mixed shadows and dim zones nullifying the effect of the headlamp throw. This happens normally at the right judging distance for a driver travelling at that speed.

Thanks to this wonderful thread with lots of information, I could go to shop with the exact details. I fit my car with the Philips 100/90 bulbs on Roots ceramic holder. I couldnt get the complete harness kit from Roots and did not hunt around much, instead chose the Mico 200W Relay and fuses and 12 gauge wiring in a protective sleeve.

Some good soul did the job very well. No heating found anywhere, except the headlamp glass is a bit hotter than before.

I can see far ahead and lots better through my dark tints.

Thanks to all who suggested this, and apologies to those whom I may glare my headlamps at.

Hi gbps,

Thats very interesting information you have shared there. Im in the process of upgrading my lighting system and considering the Osram Silverstar OR Cool Blue. I also intend to install the Cool Blue for my fog lamps.

I got a couple of questions for you: -

1. Considering your mishap, are you saying that the Philips are better than the Osram? Yur thread says that the Osam were OEM 60/55 W while the Philips were 100/90 W (so obviously better light). Did'nt you bother to consider Osram 100/90 W bulbs, or you still say that the Philips are better?

2. Where in Mumbai did you purchase your Osram & Philips bulbs from? How much did they cost you and where did you get the wiring and ceramic holders from?

3. Is the relay a must? When are they required?


Kindly advise.

Epic

[gbpscars]

hi epic,

I got the Osram 60/55 from the UK via eBay. I had an Osram before but the Osram Silverstar was surely better than the other one, just because Silverstar has Xenon (not to be confused with HID) in it and the older lamps have Halogen in them. Higher temperature of the lead and a bit more lumens.

I got Philips for my upgrade to 100/90 due to its easier availability. I got them from Chandrika Automobiles in Dadar W, Gokhale Road. Many other shops in Mumbai have them too.

A good option will be to put in 100/90 on the headlamps and HID xenon with a projector housing on the fog lamps if your budget permits.

About your questions on the relay, read this great big thread. It has been very extensively discussed.

A simple formula to choose bulb output color, be it plain filament or HID,... you want to see the road, stay within 6000Kelvin limits, (Yellow to white range), you want to be seen by others,... go over the 6000K upto 12000K (Blue to Violet range)

[revtech]

Originally Posted by gbpscars

A simple formula to choose bulb output color, be it plain filament or HID,... you want to see the road, stay within 6000Kelvin limits, (Yellow to white range), you want to be seen by others,... go over the 6000K upto 12000K (Blue to Violet range)

so are you trying to say that HIDs between 6000 k to 12000 k arent as power ful *** the lower ones ? i have seen a few HIDs with a (blueish/purplish) tinge but still were very powerful...are you trying to say those dont light up the road as well as the <6000 k ones ?


Rev

[paras211]

higher rating ones arnt as good as 6000 n below

[revtech]

hmmmm i honestly thought higher the better....purplish tinged ones being the best...


Rev

[Epic]

Originally Posted by gbpscars

hi epic,

I got the Osram 60/55 from the UK via eBay. I had an Osram before but the Osram Silverstar was surely better than the other one, just because Silverstar has Xenon (not to be confused with HID) in it and the older lamps have Halogen in them. Higher temperature of the lead and a bit more lumens.

I got Philips for my upgrade to 100/90 due to its easier availability. I got them from Chandrika Automobiles in Dadar W, Gokhale Road. Many other shops in Mumbai have them too.

A good option will be to put in 100/90 on the headlamps and HID xenon with a projector housing on the fog lamps if your budget permits.

About your questions on the relay, read this great big thread. It has been very extensively discussed.

A simple formula to choose bulb output color, be it plain filament or HID,... you want to see the road, stay within 6000Kelvin limits, (Yellow to white range), you want to be seen by others,... go over the 6000K upto 12000K (Blue to Violet range)

Hi gbps,

Excellent ideas shared once again. But, i don't know if or where projector housings are available for the Swift. If you know, kindly let me know. There is the Osram regional office situated here in Andheri(E) so im gonna call them today and check out the options. I was planning to install HIDs but realised that they did'nt meke sense if installed in a halogen setup and required the projector setup for it to be legal and be used at its fullest so dropped the idea.

Now my option is to fit blue lights in the headlams and the fogs. But im confused as to what power bulbs to use for the same and which brand. Ok, correct me if im wrong here, i guess, as per your recommendation, i should go in for either the Philips Blue Vision of 100/90 W power OR the Osram Blue of 100/90 W power for my headlamps, with a relay and with a maximum of 6000 K lumens?

What should be the specifications for the fog lamps? I know i will find that in the owner's manual but should i stick to the same specification or can i upgrade to higher power?

Epic

[tsk1979]

epic, whenever you go for higher output bulb, for example 100/90W instead of 60/55W you need to upgrade your relay or wiring. Many people do not do so. They claim they are running fine. They may be, but stock wiring causes a voltage drop. 5% drop in voltage will give you a 20% drop in light output of a halogen. So you may have 100/90W but your light output may be similar to that of 60/55W.

As far as factory fitted fog lamps are concerned, higher output will not make much of an effect as these are aimed for the ground right in front of the car. You can anyways see there quite well, so you can go for xenon's there for cool factor, otherwise from usability point of view you won't benefit much.

As for Osram Silverstars, its 1 60/55W bulb which will be slightly better than your 60/55W, but 100/90W will definitely give more light.

Another very very important criteria which people forget is headlight design. So if somebody is happy with the bulb in his/her car, it does not mean you will be too.

Let me give you a real world example. I have Narva 100/90W in my Indica. I got those because I wanted white light, at the same time I did not want it to be too dim, as the 60/55W whites appear when the headlamp in not clear glass(Old indica).
So Narva appeared to be the best when I fitted them. Then Ishan wanted to try out Narva's, in his OHC they appeared dim! Hella gold was much brighter(that is 100/90 too), so he went for 100/90 Hella gold as they gave the best light in his headlight assembly.
So before you buy try. Forget everything and get the one which "you feel" gives the best light.

Even when magazines test halogen lamps, they don't use just one pair. They will take 5 philips, 5 Osrams, 5 other brand etc., etc., and give their verdict if 4 out of 5 give good light. In the same type of halogen bulb, for example Osram Silverstar 100/90 the position of the element may be a little off such that one sample gives excellent light with no glare to oncoming traffic, while other sample throws of light in every direction except the road. People curse you and you don't see anything either. So try before you buy is the rule.
This sample to sample variability is not there in most philips, osram etc., but when you go for lesser known brands such as Powerbulbs etc., you actually need to try and buy.
If you are getting from a local seller, then try and buy, because thats the best way to see.

[Absar]

Looks like my idea of fitting on a HID kit for my ikon is gonna be dumped. Because I feel if I fit on a HID kit without projectors, its me who will have the pleasure, but the oncoming cars wouldn't be having a pleasure. It's best to fit on HID when a projector setup is involved. So, I guess until a aftermarket projector setup becomes available for the ikon, I won't go for it. I'll stick to my Philips Rally 90/100w. or ill upgrade even later to 100/130w if needed.

[gbpscars]

tsk has done a good explanation on the bulb upgradation and relay and their variant outcomes.

epic, revtech, and some more seem to be confused with the Optic units "degrees Kelvin" and "lumens".

this confusion may lead you to buy the wrong product with less or no satisfaction. so here's a small clarification on the terms...

degrees Kelvin is the color temperature (in literal terms how hot or how cool it is). what this means is that according to optic physics, light (white light) comprises of its component colors. the colors will be visible to human eyes in an increasing scale or spectrum.

lf we take the simple "VIBGYOR" of a rainbow that we learnt in school. Violet is considered the coolest beyond which the light rays become UV - Ultra Violet invisible to naked eye and Red is the hottest ( anytime) beyond which is the Infra-red region again invisible to naked eye.

http://www.equiworld.net/uk/horsecar...y/spectrum.JPG

let us not go into boring physics lectures like the one I had at college.
simple sense says that this is the order of nature or science.

all that we need when we look for HID is that if you stay near to 6000Kelvin temperature the penetration power of light into the atmosphere (of varying particles) is greater than that of the ones above 6000K. this capacity does not change immediately after 6000K instead it has to be understood that it is a slowly degrading process as we move towards the 12000K range from the 6000K (given the same wattage of power usage).

So do understand that Kelvin degrees mentioned in the HID boxes, especially the ones from HK or China are extremely misleading in optic physics perspective. Dont think that the higher the Kelvin number, higher the brightness.

-------------------------------

Instead the brightness of a bulb or any light source is measured in "Lumens". If a HID xenon kit box is mentioning lumens value, this will be a good measure of the brightness.

A good brand box may say something like 6000K, White Light, 3800 lumens.

If a 10000K HID box with "Ultra blue or Violet" as the color temperature says it can give you 4000 lumens, it is either a bluff or it will have to use atleast 70 to 90 watts of power from your power pack to do that.
At 35W of power usage, a 10000K HID can deliver nothing more than ~2300 lumens.

So if you say you saw a Ultra blue or Violet 10000K - 12000K HID xenon throwing a light that lit up the entire locality , then that guy is perhaps using a kit worth a loot!!!

I hope my post was useful, though long. Sorry for those back benchers who have dozed off. The class is over.

[revtech]

hey gbpscars

that was one really informative post..now the concept is clear in my mind...thanx a lot.


Rev

[gbpscars]

Thanks revtech

Some more layman info,...

Plain old Halogen lamps are expected to deliver near to 22 lumens per watt. So a 60W high beam from a plain halogen will be 1320 lumens.

As tsk mentioned the factors like headlamp housing design, alignment, and type of lens (Fresnel or clear) also affect the amount of light seen on the road. One might have noticed that a simple headlamp design of a Qualis, Sumo or Tavera will seem brighter than a curvaceous one on a Corolla, City fit with an OEM 55/60W.


-----------------


Approximate luminous intensity (Lumens) measured in a dark room for different light sources:

Dinner Candle - 16 lumens (recorded without a girl on the other side of the candle )
Incandescent lamp - 830 lumens
Halogen lamp - 1500 lumens
Xenon filled headlamps with filament - upto 1900 lumens (like Osram SilverStar)

Then comes the truth,...
A cheap Chinese HID system with Xenon - ATLEAST 2300 lumens (there is the fact, you can see that even a cheap HID Xenon will be brighter than an Osram SilverStar 55/60W,... haha.

There are HID kits by Hella in a projector housing (sold abroad) that quote a high-nosed 4000 lumens!!!!!!! on the box.

At this point one may calculate a 90/100W on high beam to deliver 2200 lumens, but the technical differences between a filament system and a HID system makes HID the best output per Watt headlamp.

HID can deliver 2300 lumens at 35 Watts itself.

-------------------

A request to all responsible drivers... please install HID kits in projector housing only.

The recent splurge of these kits in the market has an increase in those fitting HID Xenon in the plain housing.

Please dont kill and get killed.

[Epic]

Hi all,

Firstly i would like to thank all in this thread especially gbpscars and tsk for all the information and clearing my doubts and confusion.

As mentioned in a thread earlier, i am planning to fit the Osram Silverstar OR the Osram Cool Blue for the headlamps and fog lamps in my Swift & had contacted the Osram officehere at Andheri (E) with my requirements.

Today i got a call from one of their sales representatives and he has suggested the Osram Silverstar (white light) over the Osram Cool Blue and claims that the Silverstar are the best headlamps available. The headlamp bulbs in the Swift are H4 and that in the fog lamps are H8. Apparently, the H8 type bulbs are new to India are not easily available as per the sales rep. He told me that they do not have H8 bulbs yet but are expected in May 07.

He however has refered me to one of the Osram authorised dealers situated in Mahim. I called this chap up and he too suggested the Osram Silverstar over the Cool Blue. He however told me that the H8 (white light) will be available in a week's time and that he will call me up when they arrive. That was music to my ears. So if any of you guys require Osram bulbs officially available in Mumbai, you can contact Mr. Godwin on 66662591.

The sales rep from Osram and Godwin also mentioned a couple of interesting points as mentioned below: -

1. HID kits are available from Osram. However, they must be fitted in a projector setup only or else illegal.'
2. As most/all cars come with headlamp bulbs of 60/55 W as OEM, fitting bulbs of higher wattage other than that supplied by the company is not only illegal but will void warranty incase of a short circut or any other problems occur. So those whose cars are still under warranty, kindly keep this in mind. Any upgradation with regard to higher wattage bulbs and relay fitments must be done only after the warranty period or preferably - never.
3. With reference to point 2, the Osram guys have advised to go in for the Silverstar 60/55 W bulbs and have assured 50% more light and longer beam as compared to the OEM bulb.
4. Cost for the Silverstar was quoted at INR 130/- per bulb and Cool Blue at INR 230/- per bulb.
Guys, kindly let me know if the prices are in order.


Epic

[tsk1979]

130rs/bulb is a great price. Go for it.
Check out
http://www.osram.com/pdf/service_cor...pe_are_you.pdf

This will tell you all about osram bulbs

[gbpscars]

Rs. 260 for a pair of Osram SilverStar is absolutely nothing for what it can do with just 55/60 W.

An year back I paid Rs. 1200 inclusive of shipping on eBay UK!!! (feel like a sheep now)