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Old 10th November 2006, 19:00   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manveet
This is the point where we differ. Have you ever (I have not) seen any OE Xenon that doesn't go into a projector. A projector is essential to focus the Xenon beam.

I understand that there is a pretty decent chance of me being wrong as this is not my area of expertise. Also, I am unafraid of taking this up with you as it is not ICE either [IMG]../images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]

Anyways, please support your hypothesis with some source/proof. I will try to do the same once I get home.


where are you now ????????????????

any ways we are not discssing OE here....the point in the car head light is to scatter to a wide area so that the front of the care is illuminated....and this can be done a reflector which can be any...

the old model plain reflector and a glass with relfective surfaces...


the normal days used clear head lamps...


the projector.....

(pics taken from wiki)

now the major differnce between a xenon and a halogen that the halogen has a dipper point which is that when it is switched on half of the bulb side is illuminated...which is used in as low beam which is not possible in a xenon....that why the OE uses a projector in which the low beam is made possible by the lense optics as seen in the pic above...

normally all the oe uses the projector for the low beam purpose only for the high beam the halogen is used....except few high end cars....like we say in autosyche mitsibhusi GTO...it has both the projectors one was low beam other was a full beam or high beam.....

I think you got my point....HID or xenon used in a non-projector reflector is a ok thing......also it is not a hypothesis it is normal stuff....and it does not matter as it is not ICE also.......

Last edited by low_bass_makker : 10th November 2006 at 19:18.
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Old 10th November 2006, 19:37   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

any ways we are not discssing OE here....the point in the car head light is to scatter to a wide area so that the front of the care is illuminated....and this can be done a reflector which can be any...
We are discussing OEM's because they do what is right. If OEM's fits xenon only on Projectors, it means that is the way it is supposed to be.

Unless ofcourse you show me OEM's that fit it on normal reflexive surfaces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

the projector.....


now the major differnce between a xenon and a halogen that the halogen has a dipper point which is that when it is switched on half of the bulb side is illuminated...which is used in as low beam which is not possible in a xenon....that why the OE uses a projector in which the low beam is made possible by the lense optics as seen in the pic above...
Good point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
normally all the oe uses the projector for the low beam purpose only for the high beam the halogen is used....except few high end cars....like we say in autosyche mitsibhusi GTO...it has both the projectors one was low beam other was a full beam or high beam.....
Ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
I think you got my point....HID or xenon used in a non-projector reflector is a ok thing......also it is not a hypothesis it is normal stuff....
No I didn't get this. You are giving me 1 reason why OE's use Xenons with projections. But what we are looking for if we want to resolve this issue is that why don't OEM's use Xenon's in normal reflexive setups i.e. why is it not the normal practise.
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Old 10th November 2006, 19:43   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manveet
No I didn't get this. You are giving me 1 reason why OE's use Xenons with projections. But what we are looking for if we want to resolve this issue is that why don't OEM's use Xenon's in normal reflexive setups i.e. why is it not the normal practise.
because of the glare the head light give which is not allowed...and the person coming from the front gets blinding....and it is illigeal to use......
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Old 11th November 2006, 01:45   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
because of the glare the head light give which is not allowed...and the person coming from the front gets blinding....and it is illigeal to use......
Aha. So you agree that this is not the ways its supposed to be done i.e. it is an incorrect setup as it causes too much glare due to lack of focus. My point exactly.

So why did we have such a long discussion after all ?
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Old 11th November 2006, 10:34   #20
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I agree with manveet here.This is illegal to have this kind of bulbs whcih can put someone coming front in serious risk.You have to experience urself to know it.

It was a good topic to discuss and even better that it has come to logical conclusion.

BTW this famous Pb word 'jugaad' should be taken by oxford guys in their dictionary with little modification to 'jugaadment'

Last edited by rsjaurr : 11th November 2006 at 10:36.
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Old 11th November 2006, 11:59   #21
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@ Mods : Based on the flow of discussion, can we rename this thread to - Should Xenon's only go into Projector setups?

Regards
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Old 11th November 2006, 12:13   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manveet
Aha. So you agree that this is not the ways its supposed to be done i.e. it is an incorrect setup as it causes too much glare due to lack of focus. My point exactly.

So why did we have such a long discussion after all ?
I dont think I had agreed on this.....how can a thing can glare if it is out of focus....the light can glare if it is focused properly concentrated at a single point if seen from the front at the source of the point that is the bulb....

one more time I am gonna say that the differnce between a halogen and a xenon is that the later is 2-3 time brighter thats all....

I dont think installing a xenon in a reflexive setups is a wrong thing...
If xenon installed in a reflexive setups or a projector setup for HIGH beam both will make equal glare for the person coming in the front of the car.....

Last edited by low_bass_makker : 11th November 2006 at 12:15.
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Old 11th November 2006, 13:29   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
how can a thing can glare if it is out of focus....the light can glare if it is focused properly concentrated at a single point if seen from the front at the source of the point that is the bulb....
This is absolutely incorrect.

Ever heard of the sun. It sends light everywhere and not at a single point. Try looking at it in the day. Phir batana glare or no glare

Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
I dont think installing a xenon in a reflexive setups is a wrong thing...
Arrey bhai .. you said it is illegal .. you said it causes glare ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
If xenon installed in a reflexive setups or a projector setup for HIGH beam both will make equal glare for the person coming in the front of the car.....
Agreed because then projection is aimed at you.
But in case you are not right in front of the car .. xenons still cause glare whereas halogens don't.
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Old 11th November 2006, 13:36   #24
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Ok. I just read up a bit on this subject. Please read this article called "Bright lights, big controversy", it's really good and will clear a lot of our doubts.

Here's the link ..
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...6-07-xenon.htm


So LBM, per this article and my general understanding, I think we can wrap this discussion with the following statement, which I believe shall be acceptable to you and seems to make logical sense:

HID/Xenon lamps are widely considered to be illegal because of the glare they cause due to their brightness.
However
, they are legal in case their light is specifically designed to be focussed so as to not cause any glare - hence the usage of projector setups by OEM's such as BMW, Skoda etc.

Last edited by manveet : 11th November 2006 at 13:37.
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Old 11th November 2006, 13:56   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manveet
HID/Xenon lamps are widely considered to be illegal because of the glare they cause due to their brightness.
However
, they are legal in case their light is specifically designed to be focussed so as to not cause any glare - hence the usage of projector setups by OEM's such as BMW, Skoda etc.
100% agreed.....

But according to the above statement we can also say that the xenon in a non projector setup is also ok as it will function normal to the user but not the person coming in front of the car.............

End of discussion..........mods do the need ful...........
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Old 11th November 2006, 21:54   #26
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Default twin compartment can solve problem in bigger cars

i think twin light setupswith 2 diff. compartments (like old and new accord,civic ,skoda,corolla,merc,bmw ...etc headlights) actually really defines XEXON'S light perfect.

as there is only one beam no hi or low , installing one light with xenon and other with normal helogen will solve the problem so that a dipper function can be achived.



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Old 11th November 2006, 22:05   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
we can also say that the xenon in a non projector setup is also ok as it will function normal to the user but not the person coming in front of the car.............
I dont think its OK to blind the drivers of oncoming vehicles!

Even if you dont care about their comfort, they could hit you. (and of course we should be considerate to our fellow motorists)

So based on the logic of this thread I would support the conclusion that xenon HID lights should only be installed in appropriately designed projector setups.

Which leads to the question (since we were talking about the Swift): Is there a xenon HID - projector setup available for the Swift?
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Old 12th November 2006, 00:25   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theEnd
Which leads to the question (since we were talking about the Swift): Is there a xenon HID - projector setup available for the Swift?
I would really pleased to know if something like this exists.....
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Old 12th November 2006, 02:38   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theEnd
I dont think its OK to blind the drivers of oncoming vehicles!
If its not OK Then What about Trucks and Buses with 4 head lights with 90/100W Lamps ?

Cheers,
Mugen_Power.
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Old 12th November 2006, 09:12   #30
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Apart from using the projector setup for HIDs in the OE, the manufacturers also put "auto levelling" unit for the headlights. The simple reason is the amount of glare HIDs produce and with this unit, they control the beam pattern of the headlights - eg if you happen to be driving up a road this unit will adjust the pointing of headlamps down (to some degree ) and thus avoid glaring the oncoming traffic. The ONLY correct fitment is OE and anything else is illegal. The auto levelling unit can be put with some "jugaad" but the least someone SHOULD do making a HID mod is to use the projector setup.
We all should care about this aspect as lot of accident happen due to glare of the lights..specially the truck and buses with their infinite watt bulbs blinding everyone. So many times I had to bring my car to a complete stop because of these pathetic drivers.
SO ONCE AGAIN, PROJECTOR SETUP IS THE MINIMAL SETUP NEEDED TO PUT THE XENONS/HIDS. It is absolutely no point of contention.
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