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Old 2nd February 2018, 12:07   #31
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

I think it is high time RC shut shop.

For me after reading these experiences, it looks like he is doing all this by taking money from customers only to fund his races. I don't see how else he can come out on top in drag races with fastest times.
The other side being, apart from their clan, rest of us (customers or forum members) are as good as kindergarten kids when it comes to knowledge.

When I got my exhaust/intake done at RRP almost 6 years ago, apart from one chap, who wasn't the technician to start off with, he was the customer handling guy, rest of them including Leela took the time to explain things to me when I had a doubt. Although at the time, for me it was a big expense just for an intake and exhaust to be done, the upside was, that exhaust lasted me till I sold the car last May. with no rust or change in note. I was lucky probably.

Recently when I got a remap done on my car , I was interested in knowing what exactly the map alters and what parameters. The tuner just wouldn't budge and after asking a second time, I knew I wasn't going to get anything out .Their attitude is that the customers are better off not knowing the details for whatever reasons.

The sad part is for few of us who derive pleasure from driving a mod'd car rather than a powerful one from the factory to start of with, there is not much of an option than to go for already powerful cars from the factory because of individuals like these.

Now I see RC has many VW's to play around with. God bless those customers.

Last edited by tharian : 2nd February 2018 at 12:24.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 13:40   #32
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

Quote:
Originally Posted by tharian View Post
Recently when I got a remap done on my car , I was interested in knowing what exactly the map alters and what parameters. The tuner just wouldn't budge and after asking a second time, I knew I wasn't going to get anything out .Their attitude is that the customers are better off not knowing the details for whatever reasons.
That is a nice attitude to have, makes the customer feel like he is indebted forever to the tuner after the remap.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 16:26   #33
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

I commend your patience and resilience Bhuvan. If I was you, things would have gotten a lot more ugly with RC and the team after probably the first or second set of Whatsapp exchanges. (pls pardon any form of threat if evident as it is not intentional).

I like many other enthusiasts were scouting for tuners to do some work on my car. I did pay a visit to RC. I didn't have any issues as such but didn't quite get the feeling he was going to advice me on whats good or not. He just told me to go all out and dump a turbo and all sorts (pretty much his recipe for any mod to be done on any vehicle). For whatever reasons though, I couldn't get things done. Have to admit that part of changing my mind was also because his sales pitch wasn't exactly inspiring me to go back.

It was then after reading Dr. Narens thread that I went n looked out for Blackworks and I got just what I was looking for.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 16:47   #34
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

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Originally Posted by tharian View Post
Recently when I got a remap done on my car , I was interested in knowing what exactly the map alters and what parameters. The tuner just wouldn't budge and after asking a second time, I knew I wasn't going to get anything out .Their attitude is that the customers are better off not knowing the details for whatever reasons.
Haha, don't expect any tuner to give you all details about the tune. I have dealt with many tuners and nobody would say what maps they change. I would say it's up to the tuner. They don't want the competitors to get to know what they are doing. But I am a kind of person who wants to know what is happening in my car. I am happy with my present tuner who not only tells me what he is doing, but also listens to my suggestions.

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
That is a nice attitude to have, makes the customer feel like he is indebted forever to the tuner after the remap.
Most of the tuners want their customers to believe that tuning is rocket science and they have done something very unique .

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It was then after reading Dr. Narens thread that I went n looked out for Blackworks and I got just what I was looking for.
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Old 2nd February 2018, 16:58   #35
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

Very sad to hear this Bhuvan.

I wonder what these guys would do to a not so knowledgable enthusiast who want to do some mods to their cars, if this is the case for such a knowledgable and alert person like you. As someone said, if we want power, better buy a powerful car straight from the factory and enjoy.

Swami
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Old 2nd February 2018, 22:50   #36
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

Sad to read your experience as well as James's (baleno) experience in the other thread. Thanks to you guys for bringing out these incidents in public so that others dreaming about a modified fast car are saved from a lot of pain - financially and emotionally.

With the tuning scene in India, it makes sense to go for powerful cars from factory and maybe get mild mods like remap or exhaust. Nothing more!

I have seen Joel grow from the initial Fiero man (big bore kit, exhaust etc) to the car race guy today. I wonder why others are not coming out with their bad experiences, which would have saved you guys. Social media is helping us in reaching more people with these bad experience nowadays compared to the old days.

I had plans to modify my Fiero and glad that I did not go with him. I am still using the bike, it would not have lasted 18 years.
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Old 5th February 2018, 02:18   #37
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Lightbulb Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
If you want a fast car, buy a stock fast car and get subtle mods on it.
In one sentence you have summed up the learning from this thread. Exactly, I've always advocated this. Don't mess around too much with the stock car, a lot of thought and work has gone behind it, to get to the roads.

From what I see and hear on the forum, I'm also not convinced with the technical know-how of tuners in India. On the other hand, when I look at a tuner here in Germany, I realize they function just like a company. Have a look at what kind of jobs they offer and the kind of people they are looking for - all people with qualifications (either learned on the job or studied).

http://jobs.racechip.de/racechip-karriere/job/

A friend of mine who is also an experienced Automotive Engineer (worked for a big German OEM in Stuttgart), left his well paying corporate job to switch to Racechip. Can you imagine something like this in India? That's how the difference in quality is.

Spike
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Old 5th February 2018, 17:28   #38
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

Thank you all for the empathy and advice.

I don't want to go legal for various reasons, some of which have been mentioned in the thread. Like I said at the start of the thread, I expect no personal gain of any sort by means of this thread. It is purely for informative purposes.

I was slightly vocal with Joel with regards to his conduct from the install time itself in our private chats. It clearly had no impact on him. Come to think of it, I remember Mr. Leelakrishnan coming, speaking and apologizing to me for a good 10 minutes when I had gone to RRP to pickup the Civic. That actually made a lot of difference, also whenever I met someone from RRP, even after they knew I had given my car to RC, they were always very cordial. Things couldn't be more different with Joel. His self-defense on hearing the car is going somewhere else, is laughable and points to his massive insecurity with his build. If you have done a good job, why will you be worried/disappointed where your customer goes after that, especially an out of town customer? He knew from day 1, that both the cars were non-local cars, and they will go to other workshops, so should have denied the build if he wants the car to be sent to Bangalore to him for each and every thing.

Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story-screen.png

The icing on the cake however are his taunts. Once he got to know that the car had gone elsewhere and I was doing a K24 swap, they got worse. One day in-between all my follow up for the 42k payment to be received from him, he messages me and starts off a tangential topic on how he fixed another civic, which had an issue similar to mine, purely electronically. I am no F1 race engineer, but if a bent con-rod can be straightened by altering a few parameters in the ECU, there is no reason for anybody to use forged rods ever.

Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story-screenshot_20180205165908.jpg
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Old 5th February 2018, 20:47   #39
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

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Originally Posted by bhuvan_prasad View Post

The icing on the cake however are his taunts. Once he got to know that the car had gone elsewhere and I was doing a K24 swap, they got worse. One day in-between all my follow up for the 42k payment to be received from him, he messages me and starts off a tangential topic on how he fixed another civic, which had an issue similar to mine, purely electronically. I am no F1 race engineer, but if a bent con-rod can be straightened by altering a few parameters in the ECU, there is no reason for anybody to use forged rods ever.

Attachment 1724632
Continuously 'suck up' to them. Ladies and gentlemen fastest honda city in the world, built by a tuner who thinks sucking up to garage owners will give you a good build.

No Joel.
Let me tell you.
1. Be courteous
2. Build cars using proper parts, not used and unfit.
3. Apologise, had he just apologised to you and given you even a part of refund things would have been better. Heck, an apology alone can sort it.

But then again, its not in his blood anymore. Its the arrogance that helps him because the more arrogant he is, more PR he gets. Even through this thread.
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Old 15th February 2018, 16:23   #40
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

I think this thread of mine has served its purpose. It was written solely to let people know about my experience, and help them make an informed choice, if and when they choose to modify their car/bike and RC is in their consideration set. I’m going to request the mods to lock it. If anyone(including Joel/RC) wants to add to it, kindly PM the mods and they will take it from there.

Joel/RC chose to ignore this thread completely, and we haven’t seen a single response from their end here defending their actions in any way. Does this mean they are accepting all the faults/mistakes on their part and see no point in responding, as they have no defense? Quite possible. In my view any self-respecting business will respond immediately to a dissatisfied customer complaining in a neutral forum(T-BHP in this case), either by apologising and setting the mistakes right, or defending the allegations made.

RC did make a post on their Facebook page(where they disabled customer reviews FYI) which pertained to this thread. A few people sent me the link on WhatsApp, and I must admit I had a good laugh reading the contents. It was hands down the most poorly written, vague, non-committal bit of marketing dribble that I have read in a long time, and given the startup boom and crash we have seen over the last 3 years, I have read a LOT of such stuff. They urged people to verify the facts in the post, and people with common sense did just that. They verified the facts presented in this thread, and replied to the post asking Joel/RC that one side is very well presented and lucid, but Joel/RC’s side is very conspicuously absent. Of course there was no reply from Joel/RC to these queries even on their own Facebook page. Some ardent RC supporters were very vocal in their worship of RC, one even said that despite doing “good” work, people(like me) will complain, so why worry. Sir, if you feel “being robbed of a promised 42k”, “being given rusty plumbing when you’ve paid for SS”, “having 2/4 spark plugs with tips missing and lied to by your tuner”, “having your exhaust crack every 2 months”, “having your brake pads squeal every time you even feather the brakes”, “having 2 sets of coilovers fail on you after paying INR 70k and endless delays” etc. qualifies as “good work”, then obviously you will never have any reason to worry, work done for you will always be “good”.

Thank you all for going through this thread and hearing me out.
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Old 15th February 2018, 21:41   #41
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Default Re: Yet another unsatisfactory Race Concepts story

*heavy sigh*

After reading through each and every word written, I feel a bit numb with rage. I've known Joel since the fiero days and his work with a zma I saw myself on then the incomplete NICE road how fast it was and then the whole big bore / ss exhaust for motorcycles happened.

BUT the good part ends there

My friend was scanned thrice when he sent overbore kits for unicorn which kept seizing again and again. Always got the reason as 'your mech doesn't know how to tune' etc. Similarly a lot other had bad experiences with the big bores and ss exhausts. A lot of people didn't even get their big bore kits in time (or never) despite buying upfront for them.

I myself had an ss exhaust for the pulsar 220 which rusted in 3 months to beyond usable quality. Fortunately that's all I've lost in monetary value in dealing with RC.

But at the same time there were claimants that the kits worked well for several thousand kms etc. All this motorcycle RC gunk disappeared when he moved to the car scene, a lot more money to be made there. I wasn't much of a car guy then so never found out what happened since he moved away from motorcycles.

However I see that the overall tone hasn't changed but magnified version of the problems from initial days. Same secrecy with details, same response with refunds and stock parts being left over. Same response 'our customers can vouch for us'. RC is never wrong and it doesn't seem it will ever change. Can't fight this one out on social media as you'll get flooded by the fan base and the topic will go off a tangent.

I hope people go through the thread and remember whenever they decide to mod their vehicle not with just RC , any tuner to keep the points you've made and go through them like a daily checklist. Anyone who's providing a service is liable to give answers once the capital has been committed. As long as people don't make the mistakes you did the thread has served it's purpose well.
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