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Old 22nd December 2006, 09:11   #1
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Default Multiple Security Systems on a single car

Hi,
I had posted this query yesterday but it has not come on the site yet. So, I assume that it has not been approved. I tried searching the forum for an answer to my question yesterday and also now but still no results. So I am posting my question here again. In case you feel this question is repetitive then please PM me the links of relevant threads. Thanks.

I would be buying the swift vxi model. I am a music freak and would be stretching my budget and getting myself a good HU and component speaker system. Amps and Subwoofer would depend on the budget.
So, to safeguard these I would obviously need to spend on a good security system. Since the Vxi doesnt come with keyless entry, I had decided to get the OEM nippon system installed which comes to about Rs. 6000. Now this has only door and bonnet security as I understand, but I also want to install those ultrasonic motion sensors and car vibration OR glass break sensors to safeguard my investments. Also important would be the pull-contact sensor for the HU and speakers(if that is also done).

What I was thinking of was that I will install the nippon system, since it comes so highly recommended by TBHP-ians and install the other sensors from Autocop or Xenos(preferably). What I would like to know are the following?

1) Can I install security systems from 2 different vendors without any compatibility issues?
2) Would it be safer (more theft proof) to install systems from 2 vendors rather than one? I am not worried if I would have to carry around 2 remotes, safety is more important to me than convenience.
3) Does nippon come with upgrades to the system like including ultrasonic sensors?

Thanks,
kuku
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Old 22nd December 2006, 10:07   #2
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Try installing the Vehicle Black Box(VBB) from Micro Technologies. Its an SMS controlled security system, and has loads of features. Costs around 16,000.
Go to their website:

microvbbf8-10-05

Last edited by torqueunlimited : 22nd December 2006 at 10:08.
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Old 22nd December 2006, 10:27   #3
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I wouldnt recommend a marriage between two separate brands. Especially on a brand new car.

Opt for a single system which offers you all the features you want.
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Old 22nd December 2006, 10:55   #4
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Kuku,

as long as the 2 systems do not operate on the same areas for example if one system is an intrusion detection system via reed switches in the door and the other system is a motion detection system via infra red or vibration detection you can integrate multiple systems. However today there are many systems available that will do both and integrate both alarms into one box - I assume GTO was referig to these in his post above. There are also systems that are coming to India (they might already be there) that will inform you on your cell phone on the status of your car.

lastly there is also a mechanical lock that allows you to latch your steering wheel to your clutch, gear shift to hand brake or streches across your steering wheel to reduce mobility of the steering wheel. In my expereince these simple systems are most effective. Just ask anyone who lived in NYC (NYC might be the car robbing capital of the world).

So you can integrate some systems but this must be well thought out.

Last edited by navin : 22nd December 2006 at 10:56.
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Old 22nd December 2006, 14:12   #5
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I have a similar dilemma in my Innova. Oddly they have keyless entry but no alarm. Ever worse is the fact that the buttons for entry are built on top of the key so i can just throw away that system.

Does anyone know of an addon that can be mated to this ? I am assuming it would be some Toyota standard system with the alarm part missing.

If not, is there a simple proximity based system i can put for the inside of the car to protect any unauthorised entry into the car ? I wouldnt really want to add another key fob in my key chain.

Not so concerned about the car getting stolen, but about my ICE getting whacked.

cheers.
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Old 22nd December 2006, 14:40   #6
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i dont think 2 systems in a car can be installed. first, if you are trying to integrate the motion sensors from auto cop into nippon master, it wont even detect it. different brands have different masters (logic boxes) & cannot be combined, at least not by any of our installers. nippon is not the ultimate security system. you can get autocop, silica, piranha, xenos, minda etc. just make sure the features you want are included in the system.

P.S. make sure you go to a professional installer

Last edited by esteem_lover : 22nd December 2006 at 14:41. Reason: PS
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Old 22nd December 2006, 20:14   #7
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I would suggest use a single system,,Mating 2 system is very difficult..
Also some high end system do have all your needs..
eg. some have auto window closing facility...Stereo protection etc..

I have an Autocop system supplied by Ford..It does my work..Though I havent used all its functions..

Have a look at this may be it will help you, that a single system can provide..and if this isnt enough I think you should talk to the company guys..may be they can give you some advice..

An eg:-http://www.germanmotorsindia.com/autocop.htm
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Old 22nd December 2006, 21:07   #8
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Autocop too has come out with a similar system that costs around 12K. They had contacted me for first installation in my Scorpio but I declined since I didn't want to be the guinea pig.

Quote:
Originally Posted by torqueunlimited View Post
Try installing the Vehicle Black Box(VBB) from Micro Technologies. Its an SMS controlled security system, and has loads of features. Costs around 16,000.
Go to their website:

microvbbf8-10-05
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Old 22nd December 2006, 21:13   #9
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You are right Ankur. This happened with my co-bro-in-law's Innova G while parked at the Okhla Ind Area during the day yesterday. His rear door's quarter glass was broken by a 'kancha' that was either thrown or used ina 'gulel'. The fellow sent his car today to windhsied express to get the glass replaced and was in the wildest mood possible since his Innova hasn't even completed a month.

Although it has central locking, it doesn't have an alarm. Sometimes I wonder as to why these car manufacturers who take sucha lot of money, do not provide certain basic amenities.

Similarly the one grouse that I've against M&M is that for all that money they haven't provided power assisted side view mirrors with turn indicators even in their SLx model...!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ankur View Post
I have a similar dilemma in my Innova. Oddly they have keyless entry but no alarm. Ever worse is the fact that the buttons for entry are built on top of the key so i can just throw away that system.

Does anyone know of an addon that can be mated to this ? I am assuming it would be some Toyota standard system with the alarm part missing.

If not, is there a simple proximity based system i can put for the inside of the car to protect any unauthorised entry into the car ? I wouldnt really want to add another key fob in my key chain.

Not so concerned about the car getting stolen, but about my ICE getting whacked.

cheers.
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Old 22nd December 2006, 21:59   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
i dont think 2 systems in a car can be installed. first, if you are trying to integrate the motion sensors from auto cop into nippon master, it wont even detect it.
Esteem, you are right but what i was suggesting was

(a) using 2 systems that do not operate in each other's space like an intrusion detection system that uses reed relays for each door, bonnet and trunk with a IR or Sound based motion detector

(b) getting a system that covers intrusion detection, motion sensing, battery kill, etc... there are quite a few systems that do all this today and much cheaper than it was 20 years ago.

I dont expect one system's processor to even recognise another system's sensors.
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Old 6th January 2007, 16:47   #11
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Hey all,
Does anyone know of any Clifford or Viper alarms in India ? On the site they have mentioned Audiodrome Sound & Security Systems in Mumbai as dealers. The address mentioned is
West View BLDG., GROUND FLOOR, NEXT TO YAMINI SHOWROOM, WODEHOUSE RD ,87, N.P.MARG, MUMBAI - 400 005.
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Old 6th January 2007, 17:44   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ankur View Post
Hey all,
Does anyone know of any Clifford or Viper alarms in India ? On the site they have mentioned Audiodrome Sound & Security Systems in Mumbai as dealers. The address mentioned is
West View BLDG., GROUND FLOOR, NEXT TO YAMINI SHOWROOM, WODEHOUSE RD ,87, N.P.MARG, MUMBAI - 400 005.
Hi,

I believe you are referring to my company and office mentioned above.

Viper
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Old 6th January 2007, 20:57   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper View Post
Hi,

I believe you are referring to my company and office mentioned above.

Viper
HAHAH ! How is that for co-incidence. Your company info is available online but the phone numbers are all incorrect, including the one on the DEI website.

I am spending a fair amount of money and time on my car and i want a good security system. Oddly even an expensive car like an Innova is not fully secure. While the car getting stolen is not that simple having transponder based keys and all, i want protection for the interior and ICE.

Please let me know what Clifford/Viper/Python systems are available and the pricing. I was about to buy online but i would want to know whats availble here and at what price before i decide to buy.

cheers.
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Old 8th January 2007, 01:08   #14
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Default Some clarifications...

Hi folks

Maybe I can clarify some things here:

There is no point in installing multiple alarm systems. Install one of good quality that has the features you want. You should however, have a multi-prong security system in place, propotional to your risk.

> Alarm System. Keeps the intruder where you want them, outside your car. in most cases car alarms only cover the doors, boot and hatch. But this wont help if the entry is made through the glass, guy crawls in, breaks into the flimsy steering column shroud, shorts the ignition cables, break the built in steering lock, and drives away. So you need a system with additional sensors inputs and immobilisation.

Simple alarm systems will have only one input. This input is usually connected to your door switch circuit (the one that uses door switches to turn the interior lights on when a door opens). If your car doesnt come with door switches on the rear doors, boot and hood, then the installer will fit these additional switches and connect them back into the door circuit.

For additional sensors, though they may be connected back into the above door circuit, it is better to have an advanced alarm system that has additional inputs for additional sensors.

Now all alarm sensors have 2 or 4 wire connections. Non-powered sensors such as door switches work on 2 wires, while powered sensors such as motion detectors work on 4 wires.

The 2 wired ones are simple NC/NO (normally closed / normally open) output devices and are daisy chained to form a loop, just like the the door switch circuit your car comes with. The 4 wire ones use 2 wires for power (12v +ve and ground) and the other 2 for the NC/NO circuit. So in effect any 2 / 4 wire sensors can be used with any alarm system. So no question of a processor not recognising another system's sensors.

Location and proper installation of sensors is very important as good installation will help reduce (or negate) false alarms.

> Security Film for the glass. Helps toughen your glass and delays intrusion since it takes longer to break the glass as more force is required to break the glass.

> Steering Lock. A good visible deterrant. Though there are ways to defeat this too, it will keep the casual auto thief at bay. Doesnt protect your ICE etc, so use with an alarm system.

> Gear Lock. A good way to ensure your car isnt stolen. Again, doesnt protect your ICE etc though. So best used with a good alarm system.

Remember, no security system is foolproof, its only about making it as difficult to break as you can.

I guess it would be a good idea to move this into the existing thread here (Must read - Keeping your Car Audio System secure)
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Old 8th January 2007, 12:03   #15
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I actually plan to replace the "central locking" system of the Innova with a good alarm system. I will then use the 1 key that doesnt have the central locking buttons on it.
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