Viper's engine swapped B16A2 OHC - Now Turbo Charged!!

[Shan2nu]

I too find it weird that the secondary profile is lower than that of the primary. The only assumption I could make is maybe he wants a stronger primary profile to overcome the turbo lag in the initial revvs. And then let the turbo carry on from there once it starts spooling and producing sufficient boost.

The primary and 2ndry profiles work together at the same point, till vtec kicks in. There is no crossover between pri and 2ndry. So the individual lobe profiles are not as significant as the combined lift that the 2 lobes put in.

Here's a vid of the B16 engine - YouTube - ???VTEC?????B16A)

Shan2nu

[viper]

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Jiggy, do rememeber than if you car suffers any problem, it will be your tuner who will first give up his hands (or asks you to pay more to get it right than say he blundered up somewhere and will rectify it) and say he was not responsible for any of it (problems could vary from mechanical errors to choosing the wrong parts). I think you should ask him why he chose that cam and the reasons behind it.

I too find it weird that the secondary profile is lower than that of the primary. The only assumption I could make is maybe he wants a stronger primary profile to overcome the turbo lag in the initial revvs. And then let the turbo carry on from there once it starts spooling and producing sufficient boost.

Rahul,

I dont have to worry about my car breaking down.The person who sold me the parts(tuner friend abroad) does not sell parts, he builds engines. I trust him 100% and a the end of the day like you said if anything goes wrong I have myself to blame. He has not built my engine the block is bone stock and all the valve train was assembled here in India. Secondarily Turbo charging was never in the immediate pipe line and he is not even aware I have TC'd the car.

As far as the cam goes I specifically told him I want a torquey profile as I drive 90% of the times in city traffic and drag maybe 2-3 times a year at the max.

Hope that clarifies matters. The cam profile is not such a vital component IMO that should give me reason to worry. If at all the Cam would not perform as expected that the worst that could happen. Dont have to worry about that either now as the cam has been tested and is doing a great job. He has not hidden anything from me I gave him the freedom and he has provided the specs as well.

Viper

[navin]

Originally Posted by viper

If at all the Cam would not perform as expected that the worst that could happen. Dont have to worry about that either now as the cam has been tested and is doing a great job.

Viper how significant is the change of the cam profile of your car vs that of a stock OHC-Vtec?

Given that the cam has how been modified to suit city driving (low end torque) have you compared the FE of your car with a stock OHC-Vtec?

I know being a engine-vengine type (and given the limited miles of your daily drive) FE is not a big concern, but my questions are purely academic. I have no intentions of doing the same to my Octy.

[Shan2nu]

Viper how significant is the change of the cam profile of your car vs that of a stock OHC-Vtec?

He is using the B16A engine which is completely diff from the B15C2.

Compared to the stock B16A, his present cam gives an extra 0.84 lift for the low lift and 0.73 for the vtec.

Shan2nu

[viper]

Originally Posted by navin

Viper how significant is the change of the cam profile of your car vs that of a stock OHC-Vtec?

Given that the cam has how been modified to suit city driving (low end torque) have you compared the FE of your car with a stock OHC-Vtec?

Hi Navin,

Shan2nu has already addressed part 1 of your question. As regards the FE I used to get approx 9.5/10 kmpl in my OHC Vtec which was a mix of 50% normal and 50% aggressive driving. Air conditioning was also 50/50. My driving style has not changed much after the swap except that in this month AC is used more often. Current FE figures after Turbo Charging are approx 8-9 kmpl in city and 13.5kmpl on highway at avg speed of 140-160 on expressway when i went recently to Mahabaleshwar.

Viper

[gigy]

viper, had you bought a baleno instead of honda i would have been roaming around you and your car.

[balenopower]

Originally Posted by gigy

viper, had you bought a baleno instead of honda i would have been roaming around you and your car.

He was planning on one and we even went baleno hunting,but couldnt find one and so came the VTEC.

[V-16]

Originally Posted by doomsday

Hi,
The only reason I asked you those questions in the first place was the fact that I was under the impression that you were the real tuner all along... and not a customer of another tuner sitting in Canada- and I somewhat expected you to know why parts that you used were going inside your car in the first place. ....
Secondly I did not expect your tuner friend to clarify it on the forum himself, but if you can clarify it from him about the rather unconventional choice of cam-- but only if you can question.

Frankly Doomsday, to call a spade a spade, NO, that does not seem to be the intention of your questions.
Innocent as they might have seemed earlier, im appalled, as im sure, so many of us are here by your whole attitude on this thread. What it appears to me is that if your query is not answered then you seem to think you have the right to make personal remarks.
You are a journo right? So dont you get information from other journos? So does that make you any less a journalist? DO you divulge all your souces of information?
The tuner in question clearly has said, that he got a build done in Canada by another tuner. That should not make him any less a tuner. Why they chose certain parts and the cam profiles may be a tuner secret. Just respect it instead of questioning it man.
Kindly refrain from such activities and please take a hint. If some one does not wish to divulge any details then respect his decision rather than taking cheap pot shots at members disguised as innocent queries.

Originally Posted by doomsday

I can't claim to be an old hat in the tuning scene, but whatever I have seen in the past 2-2.5 years-- the tunee has every right in the world to question the tuner-

Yes I agree, you cant!! So kindly stop casting aspirations on the decisions of persons who actually are old hats.
You are absolutely right about the "Tunee" having the right to question the Tuner.
Let me inform you that No tuner in this world has the entire expertise in all fields, something quite contrary to what you seen to have learnt in your extensive 2-2.5 years experience in this field.
It is unfortunate that I have to remind you, that in this case, you are neither the Tuner nor the "Tunee", so your right to information is strictly restricted to that, what you get from either of the above party, nothing else.

Originally Posted by doomsday

apart from some secrets which come only by experience- aspects of mechanical tuning that is. Choice of a street cam for a daily driver that is running 1/2 bar of boost can hardly be categorised as a tuner secret. He will have a simple explanation for his choice- and that will help clear the confusion... for me and several others as well as you yourself- who never considered questioning your tuner even after it was brought to your notice earlier by another bhpian on the forum.

You seem to have all the answers here. This post is like a monologue. If you know so much my dear friend than why are you asking? Maybe he knows but does not want to tell you. you want information forced out of someone. Try being polite, it really works. Now dont say "I was being polite earlier but..."
The direction your supposed innocent questions are taking appear more like a premeditated plan at attacking/insulting a member on the forum. If you please take time to read a few threads here and you will notice that this is not done in this forum.

Originally Posted by doomsday

I have spent enough time on this now... this is my last post on this topic. As I said earlier pending questions are aplenty on my mind- but I will throw in the towel now.

Thank you, if the above is adhered to you will do all of us a B-I-G favour.
Next time try asking questions without being too probe oriented and im sure you will get all the answers you want.

Originally Posted by kastaway

Team-BHP - The Definitive Indian Car Community - Modifiers Database

Well if he is depended on others for tuning or recommendations/guide for modification and totally rely on them, then how come his name is there on tuner list. I am sorry to be a bit arrogant but he doesnt qualify to be called a tuner & by putting his name on that list gives out wrong message to members who are unknwon. one should be knowledgeable enough to know what you are doing.
just my view.

Well Kastaway, firstly refrain from creating a controversy.
Secondly, there is no apology for being arrogant, neither is there any excuse for the same. Needless to say you are fishing for trouble if you try that cheap stunt here again.
You are speaking about a senior member who has been in this forum from long and has since, given ample proof of his capabilities. If they do not appeal to you, that is your business but do not try to present your opinion as the common one here.
For answers to your queries, read this entire post.
This thread discusses the car, please stick to that....and as for your self proclaimed arrogance, you can try elsewhere, not here please.

Ok guys so lets get back to discussing the car.

[HPP]

The fact of this build is this, how many others are like it in India? Maybe none? Even in a place like the US, where that build has been done a million times, everyone has a different way of executing it, so there is no one right way, and everyone learns with experience. From my personal experience, he is far ahead of a lot of people out there. It's easy to be a keyboard jockey and knock someones efforts, it's much harder to speak from experience and not just spit information you read in a book.

I applaud his efforts, well done Viper.

[1fstndn]

Originally Posted by HPP

The fact of this build is this, how many others are like it in India? Maybe none? Even in a place like the US, where that build has been done a million times, everyone has a different way of executing it, so there is no one right way, and everyone learns with experience. From my personal experience, he is far ahead of a lot of people out there. It's easy to be a keyboard jockey and knock someones efforts, it's much harder to speak from experience and not just spit information you read in a book.

I applaud his efforts, well done Viper.

Damm HPP you beat me to it.. I was thinking samething when i was driving home from work. I also applaud you viper. The reason that i am saying because you are trying to be different. You are going out of your ways to get parts that are not avaiable in india. You are doing what other people where doing in the states when import scence started here. Good luck, like 2pac said keep your head up. From seeing your post i see you have learned alot from this build and you can say i experienced it. Keep it up... one fast indian is on your side....

[doomsday]

I eat my words from my last post but I can't keep myself away anymore. This post may also appear off-topic but some facts need to be clarified- and as they are very much related to the tuner of the car, it isn't entirely off-topic....

Originally Posted by V-16

Frankly Doomsday, to call a spade a spade, NO, that does not seem to be the intention of your questions.
Innocent as they might have seemed earlier, im appalled, as im sure, so many of us are here by your whole attitude on this thread. What it appears to me is that if your query is not answered then you seem to think you have the right to make personal remarks.

Let me make it clear that I have never met Viper in person, all I know of him is from this forum, and he known to be a tuner of good repute here. He initiated this project all by himself-- and I applaud his spirit. Not many people would choose to go the route he chose- but again, he is a tuner and not an ordinary user.

Being in the industry for so long, he would be having extensive knowledge of various performance components and their after-effects, so when he mentioned the specs of the unconventional cam, I had no reason to believe that he did not choose the part but someone else and it came as an unexpected fact that he himself did not choose it, but someone else in Canada.

Since it is his car I thought he would know why? It is a question that a normal tunee would ask his tuner and as Viper is himself a tuner of considerable repute, I thought he would have popped this question to his friend in Canada... but that is after I became aware of the existence. I wasn't even remotely aware that another tuner was involved in this build, and thats why I repeatedly questioned Viper in my initial posts.

Originally Posted by V-16

Kindly refrain from such activities and please take a hint. If some one does not wish to divulge any details then respect his decision rather than taking cheap pot shots at members disguised as innocent queries.

Originally Posted by V-16

It is unfortunate that I have to remind you, that in this case, you are neither the Tuner nor the "Tunee", so your right to information is strictly restricted to that, what you get from either of the above party, nothing else.

I have no reason in this world to take "cheap pots shots" at Viper as I it would not benefit me in the least way. I am just a curious enthusiast who wants to learn. Nothing less, nothing more.

Originally Posted by V-16

Let me inform you that No tuner in this world has the entire expertise in all fields, something quite contrary to what you seen to have learnt in your extensive 2-2.5 years experience in this field.

Granted. But imagine if an engine builder who does not know how cam profile would affect engine performance, then frankly speaking, he's in the wrong job. NO OFFENSE TO VIPER OR ANY OTHER TUNER HERE.

Originally Posted by V-16

You seem to have all the answers here. This post is like a monologue. If you know so much my dear friend than why are you asking?

If I had all the answers in the first place I wouldn't have taken the time and initiative to put up my first post.

I got my answers only after me and a fellow bhipan haggled our brains together for some time before the fact dawned upon us. To clarify the same to many others who might be confused about the issue, I put up the long post which to you seems like a monologue. Or would it have been better if several people would still have been unaware of the significance of individual lift vs. combined lift?

Information is meant to be shared and spread awareness about something which is still aspirational for many automobile enthusiasts in our country. If all tuners kept all their secrets, no tuning magazines would have been around.

Originally Posted by V-16

Maybe he knows but does not want to tell you. you want information forced out of someone. Try being polite, it really works. Now dont say "I was being polite earlier but..."

If he does know and he doesn't want to divulge, he could have said so in the first place and there wouldn't have been any more questions. I don't want any information forced out of anyone- but info like that doesn't remain a secret for too long.

Originally Posted by V-16

The direction your supposed innocent questions are taking appear more like a premeditated plan at attacking/insulting a member on the forum. If you please take time to read a few threads here and you will notice that this is not done in this forum.

Premeditated plan to attack and insult. I myself do not understand what I would achieve by doing that.
And just because the numerical value of my posts is a fraction of what many senior members have here, doesn't mean I have not gone through the forum/threads extensively or am unaware the protocols of the forum.

Originally Posted by V-16

Thank you, if the above is adhered to you will do all of us a B-I-G favour.
Next time try asking questions without being too probe oriented and im sure you will get all the answers you want.

Sorry to disappoint you because of this post, but cannot stand appearing unaffected by the wrong assumptions you made based on nothing but my queries, and I hope they stand clarified.

I didn't know that asking "to the point" questions and expecting a response on similar lines is considered as a "probe-oriented" questions- to which one cannot normally expect a response.

[viper]

Being in the industry for so long, he would be having extensive knowledge of various performance components and their after-effects, so when he mentioned the specs of the unconventional cam, I had no reason to believe that he did not choose the part but someone else and it came as an unexpected fact that he himself did not choose it, but someone else in Canada.

Since it is his car I thought he would know why? It is a question that a normal tunee would ask his tuner and as Viper is himself a tuner of considerable repute, I thought he would have popped this question to his friend in Canada... but that is after I became aware of the existence. I wasn't even remotely aware that another tuner was involved in this build, and thats why I repeatedly questioned Viper in my initial posts.

Hi,

I was refraining from answering but since you persist let me make a few things very clear.

1> Do not mistake silence for lack of knowledge.

2> You have no rights to insist/demand info. At the max you can ask or PM and it is absolutely my decision/choice to divulge what I want and don't want.

3> How do you know I did not ask. Get real man everyone in this industry or rather almost any industry takes advice from someone or the other and I do not see any harm in that. In this case it was a friend. I did not know that asking someone trustworthy to decide on a brand/profile was a a crime. I want to ask you something how many people do you know of in India have complete knowledge on this motor(B16A) and have actually worked on it. I am not talking about Google Knowledge or any other books but actually tried out every single Cam Manufacturer and their various profiles.

I could have easily just shut you up by asking my friend and replying or googling the same.

I am man enough to admit what I know or don't know. There are several people on Tbhp who have done engine swaps how many of them have come forward and shared exactly what brands, models nos of various parts they have installed and why they chose what they did. It is their prerogative to divulge what they did and not a compulsion.

Lastly general information is to be shared and not info on my personal car. I think I have shared more than what anyone on this forum has shared about their cars period. This is a thread on my car and not about the tuner of the car. Lets stick to the topic.

That said lets end this topic here as I do not wish to divulge or answer any of your questions. There are ways to ask a question. Your intention is not for knowledge and if I'm not mistaken you do work for Overdrive right.


Viper

[doomsday]

Originally Posted by viper

Hi,

I was refraining from answering but since you persist let me make a few things very clear.

1> Do not mistake silence for lack of knowledge.

Never did so as I know better. But in this case I know what the truth is. Even though I've never met you or seen your car. Don't ask how, though, since its a tuners' secret.

Originally Posted by viper

2> You have no rights to insist/demand info. At the max you can ask or PM and it is absolutely my decision/choice to divulge what I want and don't want.

Yup. I have no rights. I can just ask.

Originally Posted by viper

3> How do you know I did not ask. Get real man everyone in this industry or rather almost any industry takes advice from someone or the other and I do not see any harm in that. In this case it was a friend. I did not know that asking someone trustworthy to decide on a brand/profile was a a crime. I want to ask you something how many people do you know of in India have complete knowledge on this motor(B16A) and have actually worked on it. I am not talking about Google Knowledge or any other books but actually tried out every single Cam Manufacturer and their various profiles.

Originally Posted by viper

I could have easily just shut you up by asking my friend and replying or googling the same.

Now earlier you said how do I know if you didn't ask your friend. You answered your question in the above line yourself.

I never said that there was harm in it. I just said that I wasn't aware that this friend was also involved in the build. Thats all. If thats my crime then it is.

Originally Posted by viper

I am man enough to admit what I know or don't know. There are several people on Tbhp who have done engine swaps how many of them have come forward and shared exactly what brands, models nos of various parts they have installed and why they chose what they did. It is their prerogative to divulge what they did and not a compulsion.

Appreciated. But you yourself have said in the past that it isn't a all-out competitive build, but more of a fast daily driver. So sharing details like a cam profile and valve spring/retainer brand isn't exactly letting out a huge secret IMO.

Originally Posted by viper

That said lets end this topic here as I do not wish to divulge or answer any of your questions. There are ways to ask a question. Your intention is not for knowledge and if I'm not mistaken you do work for Overdrive right.

Don't call it knowledge if you want to but clarification would be nearer the mark. And where I work is entirely insignificant to this topic.

[viper]

Originally Posted by doomsday

Now earlier you said how do I know if you didn't ask your friend. You answered your question in the above line yourself. I never said that there was harm in it. I just said that I wasn't aware that this friend was also involved in the build. Thats all. If thats my crime then it is.

Appreciated. But you yourself have said in the past that it isn't a all-out competitive build, but more of a fast daily driver. So sharing details like a cam profile and valve spring/retainer brand isn't exactly letting out a huge secret IMO.

Don't call it knowledge if you want to but clarification would be nearer the mark. And where I work is entirely insignificant to this topic.

Hey,

I had already clarified from the start in post 775. I still maintain its not a all out competitve build as I have not touched the block and am running only 7psi of boost. There is no harm in trying to extract the max out of a stock block is there. Did I say its a secret, the minute you asked I posted the specs and brand. What are you trying to prove with this statement.

This discussion is as insignificant to this thread as is where you work. Now if you are finished can we end this discussion here and now.

Viper

[doomsday]

Originally Posted by viper

Hey,

I had already clarified from the start in post 775. I still maintain its not a all out competitve build as I have not touched the block and am running only 7psi of boost. There is no harm in trying to extract the max out of a stock block is there. Did I say its a secret, the minute you asked I posted the specs and brand. What are you trying to prove with this statement.

I am sorry but till a question like this is posed, this discussion will go on.. I am not trying to prove anything but the fact that the choice of your cam profile by your friend isn't a huge tuner's secret, which is the conclusion others may have come to. Thats all. Its not the cam profile itself- which you have already put up... but the reason behind its unconventionality.