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Old 29th August 2007, 13:07   #166
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Default @ heat range

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan_fonseca View Post
Would love it too if someone could shed some light on this.
let me try to put in the simplest language!!
sparkplug heat range is a tailor made tech thing which alters the combustion process , by products and outcome ..
let me explain further..
some plugs engines run so hot <internally> and have the potential to distroy itself if push hard< w.o.t.> for a long time because of excessive heat builtup in the combustion chamber and /or lack of enough heat dissipition with the same rate.
. the spark plug is the hottest part in the combustion chember< temp ranges from 2-4000 deg for a fraction of sec half the rpm times so it can either erode very fast,,or glow and will cause pre ignition .. just think what happens if the air fuel mixture starts burning way before the piston reaches top dead centre< in short while still rising >at least it will hamper power out put .. at themost ot will wreak the weakest part in the vicinity .
if the temp rise is too fast.. then the plug may melt off and fall in the combustion chember<steel part falling in the aluminium chember and on aluminum piston with valves moving at @4-6 thousend times>
it can at least hole the piston and or hole the piston bend the valves , warp the head,.. so on ..
the spark plug is also subject of cold air fuel mixture attack on every alternate revolution so if the plugs heat transfer rate is much more than the heat building rate then the plug will run too cool for proper combustion , minimum trouble .. starting trouble when cold .. max the plug will accumulate the un burnt and partially burnt oil mist and fuel . there arte two distant possibilities. either it will start glowing and will create the problems mentioned before.. or the plug will simply clog and wont fire .
the rate of heat building should be well balanced by the heat extracted . the plug shoult hot enough so that it will remain just clean without erosion or overheating . at the same time not too cold that it will start sapping potential poweroutput. and start accumulating the carbon built up ..
the teat range is the tailoring factor in the heat transfer path of the engine.
if for specific opration the plug is fouling in the same engine then one number hotter plug is recomanded .
if in the same engine if the pre ignition is traced <assuming all other things are ok> then one steap cold plug is recomanded
.. i hope i managed to clarigy all the basic doubts!!

Last edited by TURBOSAM : 29th August 2007 at 13:16.
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Old 29th August 2007, 18:32   #167
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Thank you Moralfibre. Of course that would provide better grip. Would that affect the FE ? I don't want to compromise on the FE part. I'm very well aware of the fact that most people buy Palio for its BHP and mock at people who are light fotted on the throttle but I considered this for its uniqueness and also its sturduness; not to mention is its VFM. Power is a very nice thing to have but attaining a good FE over power to me would be a wise decision if not a bold one since my dad would be the one who'd be driving around most of the time. Also, this gives me the flexibility of hitting hard on the throttle whenever I want like the way I do on my Royal Enfield. So, I hope you got the idea of my kinda' locomotive. also can you please comment on the spoiler ?
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Old 29th August 2007, 21:06   #168
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Hi turbosam, what u think abt this ..

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Originally Posted by TURBOSAM View Post
if the cat is restrictive, and then u discard it!
plus u drive at full throttle <wide open throttle>at max torque rpm, then it will significantly increase the charge density.
1> place the engine on the heavy load ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by TURBOSAM View Post
2> we need additional fuel to just cool off the the internal components...<and lambda wont allow it>
.. in a stock engine , with a stock narrowband .. if there is extra dense cold air comming in the ECu will not utilise it all.. the ECu will be still be using the factory fuel map.
Unless we have a AFC, or piggyback/standalone ECU we wont be able to increase the IPW at diff rpm points..so the STFT,LTFT will remain the same ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TURBOSAM View Post
3> cool dense atmosphere too will produce knock,
4> in simillar veins adding an efficient 'cold air'or ram air <if they really work>could produce a knock.
5> a big drop in humidity can still produce a knock.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TURBOSAM View Post
6>and yes more efficient exhaust could cause a knock...less ununscavanged exhaust gas increases charge density..but less exhaust gas is less corruptionof the combustion flame through the the mixture. more flame speed can lead to an excessivelyrapid cylinder pressure rise ... out od control combustion -detonation...
so a free flowing exhaust would simulate a condition simlar to valves with bigger overlap, more charge gets pulled in, increasing the combustion flame speed , so requiring the need for appropriate ignition advance. stock ECU will again use default timing maps..so unless we tweak the timing slightly we wont get much improvement ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by TURBOSAM View Post
7> its all a delicate balance a slight increase in charge temp or charge density is not a problem .. but a big increase will call for much more octane fuel.
like wisea small decrease in both charge humidity and increase in charge temp will require more octane too!
.. will basically give more power for a given AFR as compared to lower octane fuel...


Quote:
Originally Posted by TURBOSAM View Post
8>and prey that ur engine has a knock sensor .. which works .. and hopefully ecu manages the knock control by adding extra fuel .. not by spark retard as it will cut off the benifits of all the extra things....and will not produce extra power.
so basically with a stock speed-density ECU with stock fuel and timing maps we cannot expect much gains unless we can control the IPW and advance/retard .. so a free flow KnN filter(doubtfull if its better than stock) and free flow exhaust should require some basic tweaking to maps to make a diff..otherwise its just increase in intake and exhaust noise

Quote:
Originally Posted by TURBOSAM View Post
then when u r off the wide open throttle with high octane fuel... as the inherent properties of the more complex chains of hc in those fuels .. the performance and fuel efficiency will SURELY drop .
.........sorry but this is what current limitations of common man's auto engines ....and mnagement systems ........
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Old 29th August 2007, 21:53   #169
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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
For starters you could consider wider tyres. The right up size would be 196/60/R14.
MF - You get 196 sized tyres too? Wow, I didn't know that

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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
Michelin Pilot Primacy
IIRC, Pilot Primacy is not available in that size. Minimum size starts with 15", but I could be wrong though.
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Old 30th August 2007, 00:03   #170
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Turbosam while we all appreciate your posts, please write in paras with proper punctuations, makes it a lot more easier to read, thanks
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Old 30th August 2007, 09:15   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
MF - You get 196 sized tyres too? Wow, I didn't know that
I seek your forgiveness oh thy tyrewallah.

Quote:
IIRC, Pilot Primacy is not available in that size. Minimum size starts with 15", but I could be wrong though.
You are the Michelin guy!

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Turbosam while we all appreciate your posts, please write in paras with proper punctuations, makes it a lot more easier to read, thanks
No use telling him. I always mention this to him when we meet up but no avail
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Old 30th August 2007, 23:18   #172
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Default great .

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Originally Posted by chetanhanda View Post
Hi turbosam, what u think abt this ..




.. in a stock engine , with a stock narrowband .. if there is extra dense cold air comming in the ECu will not utilise it all.. the ECu will be still be using the factory fuel map.
Unless we have a AFC, or piggyback/standalone ECU we wont be able to increase the IPW at diff rpm points..so the STFT,LTFT will remain the same ...





so a free flowing exhaust would simulate a condition simlar to valves with bigger overlap, more charge gets pulled in, increasing the combustion flame speed , so requiring the need for appropriate ignition advance. stock ECU will again use default timing maps..so unless we tweak the timing slightly we wont get much improvement ..


.. will basically give more power for a given AFR as compared to lower octane fuel...



so basically with a stock speed-density ECU with stock fuel and timing maps we cannot expect much gains unless we can control the IPW and advance/retard .. so a free flow KnN filter(doubtfull if its better than stock) and free flow exhaust should require some basic tweaking to maps to make a diff..otherwise its just increase in intake and exhaust noise


WE CAN DEFINATELY HOPE THAT we have a wide band <preferably 4 wire> lambda sensor+good quality knock sensor+good and steady octane rating fuel + 30%+/- tolerances in all the igntion and fueling plots,+ all the actuators can handle it<including the injectors and coils> then hope ur fuel pump and filters can handle it------ and everything work better than expected.
amen!!

Last edited by TURBOSAM : 30th August 2007 at 23:23. Reason: spelling mistakes!
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Old 30th August 2007, 23:27   #173
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Default Sorry!

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Turbosam while we all appreciate your posts, please write in paras with proper punctuations, makes it a lot more easier to read, thanks
am absolutely sorry !
please accept my apologies. i wll definately improve ...
thanks
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Old 31st August 2007, 02:02   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TURBOSAM View Post
then hope ur fuel pump and filters can handle it------
and everything work better than expected.
amen!!

.. and not hope it makes 50% more bhp @wheels
amen !!
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Old 7th September 2007, 13:02   #175
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Default off the topic but really tempting..

check out the engines ..Maserati Engines II
all gems especially ch ENGINE V6 4AC 24v
its 1996cc production engine producing 306 bhp

Last edited by TURBOSAM : 7th September 2007 at 13:13. Reason: information added
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Old 15th September 2007, 03:40   #176
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Thanks turbosam for the reply.
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Old 17th September 2007, 22:06   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by payam View Post
guys
i was searching in modification section that i saw a thread all about swift.
so i decided to make such a thread for palio and all palio lovers and owners,as i have seen there is not a specific place for this beauty.
hope you guys contribute on this.
thanx dude...this was badly needed
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Old 18th September 2007, 16:35   #178
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I found an interesting rally car having the same engine as my car:



This is the rally car:



I wonder what it is running.

SOURCE: http://www.clubpalio.cl/

Also see: ::: RODRIGO ALONSO

Last edited by moralfibre : 18th September 2007 at 16:38.
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Old 19th September 2007, 08:31   #179
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wow kiran ,nice link. at least someone somewhere is using heavy duty palio as a rally car . felt good .
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Old 12th October 2007, 18:10   #180
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Default Pipercross Panel filter

fellows, My palio is completing first year of ownership. I am looking for Panel filter to replace the one in original airbox. I had sent query to N1 racing at Prabhadevi.

Got a quick reply from them about Pipercros panel filter as OEM replacement in original air box. They quoted price as Rs 3050/-.

My query is will there work or integrate correctly in original with some improvement in performance.

Is the price quoted correct.

Thanks
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