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Old 10th June 2007, 02:32   #46
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Aha, Psychos "magic potion" suspension systems.

Agreed...This guy knows his way around suspension jobs! I have seen his other jobs too,but i marvel at his grasp of suspension work.
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Old 10th June 2007, 10:07   #47
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You old people were drunk. The car has a pronounced turbo whistle and all its pumps whine as well.


IMHO, both of your statements are factually incorrect. Can you empirically justify them?
Well V1p3r, I'm in contact with a company that makes turbochargers..and IMHO..not all turbos have a BOV..especially when they are designed as OEM..

A properly deisgned TC need not have a BOV..The BOV is used when we adapt an after market TC to an engine..and as mentioned in the thread..to let out the excess boost..

And we could tune the TC to get the boost from say xxx rpm.. A TC will only give power in a limited range..!!!

FYI, have you ever got the BOV whistle from a Indigo or a Scorpio in stock trim..I'd doubt that!! And both of them are STOCK TCed vehicles..
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Old 10th June 2007, 20:21   #48
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Originally Posted by headers View Post
Well V1p3r, I'm in contact with a company that makes turbochargers..and IMHO..not all turbos have a BOV..especially when they are designed as OEM..

A properly deisgned TC need not have a BOV..The BOV is used when we adapt an after market TC to an engine..and as mentioned in the thread..to let out the excess boost..

And we could tune the TC to get the boost from say xxx rpm.. A TC will only give power in a limited range..!!!

FYI, have you ever got the BOV whistle from a Indigo or a Scorpio in stock trim..I'd doubt that!! And both of them are STOCK TCed vehicles..
Excuse my limited knowledge but does Diesel engines need a BOV?

The pressure in the manifold increases suddenly closes when the throttle valve closes in an engine. And the BOV is required to vent this pressure which otherwise could be harmful to the turbo.

Diesels does not have a throttle valve in the manifold to close, the manifold in a diesel is 'open', the turbo boost does not come across any sort of obstruction in a diesel engine when the throttle is closed. The engine speed is regulated by the throttle cable which goes to the diesel pump which regulates the flow of diesel to increase or decrease the engine speed.

So sudden pressure build up is not there when the throttle is released in a Diesel engine like that of a petrol engine and the BOV is not required to vent that non existent pressure build up isn't it.

The stock petrol Ovtavia RS which comes with a turbo has a BOV as far as i know.
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Old 10th June 2007, 21:29   #49
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Aha, Psychos "magic potion" suspension systems. Look forward to one on my Vtec sometime soon.
So whats stopping you?

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I liked his ICE, it was very good.
HE HAD ICE???

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psychoji, what do you have as your boost controller? or is it a secret? something fishy
No secret. Boost Controller is on the dash. Go take a look, but dont faint.
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Old 10th June 2007, 22:05   #50
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Atleast he let go of the Contessa. How much of time and $$$ can you put behind an impossibly slow car? The Esteem is a good car for straight line speed.
Conti used to be quicker than an Octavia at one point. And it's RWD. And this Esteem handles brilliantly. If only the driver drove it to full potential...
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Originally Posted by Jomz View Post
THE BOV is set for 7 psi in your daily drive right??? So anything less that 7 psi.. the BOV closes..
You mean the wastegate, don't you?

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Originally Posted by headers View Post
Well V1p3r, I'm in contact with a company that makes turbochargers..and IMHO..not all turbos have a BOV..especially when they are designed as OEM..

A properly deisgned TC need not have a BOV..The BOV is used when we adapt an after market TC to an engine..and as mentioned in the thread..to let out the excess boost..

And we could tune the TC to get the boost from say xxx rpm.. A TC will only give power in a limited range..!!!

FYI, have you ever got the BOV whistle from a Indigo or a Scorpio in stock trim..I'd doubt that!! And both of them are STOCK TCed vehicles..
Headers, I'm not in contact with anyone who makes turbos, but unless I'm very much mistaken NO turbo has a BOV on it. Any turbo will spool air at any rpm, if it is designed so. I asked you to empirically justify your statement: a turbo will not spool air at idle. If you have a small enough turbo, it will.

Secondly, any turbocharged vehicle will benefit from a BOV. Currently, no turbodiesel vehicle runs a BOV because a BOV utilises the pressure diffferential before and after the throttle plate. A diesel engine does not have a throttle, so you cannot use a regular BOV, though I do believe people are now making electronic BOVs for diesels.
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Old 11th June 2007, 10:04   #51
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No i meant BOV itself... THe question was for the Vaccum... Psycho had Told that The BOV opens... and vaccum is created...
Ok Vipers statement Pressure differential across the throttle plate makes it clear. I thought BOV was something like a wastegate... working on absolute pressure.

Then again.. being working on diesels.. We don't use a BOV because of the same reason what sankar told.No throttle plate. So no pressure differntial... and the turbo's are quite big which can handle that pressure.. the turbo's are for around 1 bar boost.. Total MAP at 2 bar..

And @ Veyron.. For brakes we use Compressed air..

and i know vaccum pumps can be used to create vaccum.. But wanted to know the complexities in turbocharging a petrol Esteem. I believe the esteem doesn't have a vaccum pump and uses inlet manifold vaccum.. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 11th June 2007, 12:54   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomz View Post
But wanted to know the complexities in turbocharging a petrol Esteem. I believe the esteem doesn't have a vaccum pump and uses inlet manifold vaccum.. Correct me if I'm wrong.
1) Yes it does use inlet manifold vaccum
2) The stock ecu is limited to 4.5 PSI of boost after which it goes into check engine mode and leans out.
3) Yes you can go higher on the MAP sensor but you will need at least a piggyback to manage it.
4) Ignition control: Stock ignition curve is too high for using a turbo setup
5) Sizing of the turbo and the plumbing to go with it.
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Old 11th June 2007, 13:37   #53
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I can get a MAP sensor.. Bosch.. Use in diesel Engines.. will it do the trick with a remap..

and how are the oil lines to the turbo managed?? Need to tap the block?? wanted o check that primarily in the nandi hills drive But fortunately/ unfortunately hitched a drive in a roller coaster and fell sick when reached top...
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Old 11th June 2007, 14:20   #54
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Originally Posted by Jomz View Post
I can get a MAP sensor.. Bosch.. Use in diesel Engines.. will it do the trick with a remap..

and how are the oil lines to the turbo managed?? Need to tap the block?? wanted o check that primarily in the nandi hills drive But fortunately/ unfortunately hitched a drive in a roller coaster and fell sick when reached top...
Oil from the oil pressure sensor and water from the radiator.
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Old 11th June 2007, 14:34   #55
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oil drain?? You using a water cooled turbo.... Great....
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Old 11th June 2007, 15:50   #56
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post

Headers, I'm not in contact with anyone who makes turbos, but unless I'm very much mistaken NO turbo has a BOV on it. Any turbo will spool air at any rpm, if it is designed so. I asked you to empirically justify your statement: a turbo will not spool air at idle. If you have a small enough turbo, it will.

Secondly, any turbocharged vehicle will benefit from a BOV. Currently, no turbodiesel vehicle runs a BOV because a BOV utilises the pressure diffferential before and after the throttle plate. A diesel engine does not have a throttle, so you cannot use a regular BOV, though I do believe people are now making electronic BOVs for diesels.
FYI, you need to understand how TCs work.. a smaller tc will have the turbine spinning at a higer rpm (more than 200K) to spool air - This WILL DEFINITELY NOT SPOOL AIR AT IDLE.. The base rpm for these turbines is around 40K only..

Request you to update on any turbos spooling air at idle rpm!!
Also, what is the purpose of spooling air at idle??
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Old 11th June 2007, 18:25   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jomz
For brakes we use Compressed air..
I was talking about booster vacuum as well. In diesels, booster vacuum is generated via a pump mounted at alternator rear. Usually.

And just for further clarification, NO diesels I've seen or heard of uses a dump valve. Reason; as explained. No throttle body.

Wastegates are a different issue. Internal & external, both. Every turbo has one. Unlike dump valves, which are an addition.

Air brakes use a different principle. So, you work on HCV's & LCV's, eh, jom..nice...torque monsters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers
a smaller tc will have the turbine spinning at a higer rpm (more than 200K) to spool air - This WILL DEFINITELY NOT SPOOL AIR AT IDLE.. The base rpm for these turbines is around 40K only..
Hm. Perhaps what v1p3r meant to say was that the turbo (any turbo) SPOOLS at idle, but does not generate BOOST. Both are different, see...the turbo SPOOLS at idle, pumping air, but not above atm. pressure. Hence, no BOOST. Depending upon the A/R, turbos start boosting air from 50K to 250K RPM (shaft).

Last edited by veyron1 : 11th June 2007 at 18:26.
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Old 11th June 2007, 18:46   #58
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Sheesh. This thread is turning from a funny one to a technical melodrama. Where is Sam? We need his services here.
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Old 11th June 2007, 20:32   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veyron1 View Post
I was talking about booster vacuum as well. In diesels, booster vacuum is generated via a pump mounted at alternator rear. Usually.

And just for further clarification, NO diesels I've seen or heard of uses a dump valve. Reason; as explained. No throttle body.

Wastegates are a different issue. Internal & external, both. Every turbo has one. Unlike dump valves, which are an addition.

Air brakes use a different principle. So, you work on HCV's & LCV's, eh, jom..nice...torque monsters.



Hm. Perhaps what v1p3r meant to say was that the turbo (any turbo) SPOOLS at idle, but does not generate BOOST. Both are different, see...the turbo SPOOLS at idle, pumping air, but not above atm. pressure. Hence, no BOOST. Depending upon the A/R, turbos start boosting air from 50K to 250K RPM (shaft).
Correct Sir..you are right.. generally larger turbos start boosting from a lower rpm and vice versa..
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Old 12th June 2007, 20:49   #60
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FYI, you need to understand how TCs work
I will try and learn.
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