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Old 27th July 2007, 20:31   #31
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i actually don't know much about cars. but i love to drive and i love fiats.
so i have to get a rwd engine

saw the video of fiat w conti engine. that was awesome. think its much big for padmini.

118 nissan engine? is it available. is it 5or4 speed.

@ananthkamath.
an 1100 engine with higher compression, twin solex carbs, full exhaust, Piper F3G cam mated to a 118 gearbox.
can it outrun modern day small cars. then i have to get myself a 1100 and mod it.

i am thinking in terms of fuel economy, less maintenance and of course daily useage. Exterior it should be fiat and drivers appeal should be great,
ie good gear box(prefer floor gear), power steering, power breaks etc as in modern day cars. classic outside & luxuries inside.
do you think its possible.

also own a padmini s1 w steering mount gear. its very difficult to maintain. dont know any good mechanic who knows to work on it, here at trivandrum. and the parts are difficult to get. actually i am working on it rt now. would like to keep it in mint condition. need help with that too.
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Old 27th July 2007, 20:36   #32
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Vtec and Gypsy have opposite directions of rotation, so you cannot connect them. Maybe an Innova petrol box, because I see the Corolla has the same direction of rotation as the Hondas.
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Old 27th July 2007, 23:50   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatdust View Post
ian 1100 engine with higher compression, twin solex carbs, full exhaust, Piper F3G cam mated to a 118 gearbox.
can it outrun modern day small cars. then i have to get myself a 1100 and mod it.
Depends on how the car is being driven!!

Changing cam profiles makes the car very undrivable in traffic, but once on the open it gets different. And why a 118ne gearbox? The top gear ratio is still 1:1!
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Old 28th July 2007, 01:27   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatdust View Post

@ananthkamath.

can it outrun modern day small cars.

i am thinking in terms of fuel economy, less maintenance and of course daily useage.


....ie good gear box(prefer floor gear), power steering, power breaks etc as in modern day cars.
It was good enough to beat a mildly modified carb Esteem in the quarter mile. Im not saying it made more power but i remember the launch was very good compared to the esteem's. You cant have excellent fuel economy ALSO with all this. You will get 5-7 km/l if you floor it all the time and about 12-14 km/l with sedate driving.

Actually the 1100 gearbox has closer ratios than the 118 but for daily use you will appreciated the smoothness of the latter.

As for power steering I dont know if its a mod that works well but I have seen other people do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100D View Post

Changing cam profiles makes the car very undrivable in traffic, but once on the open it gets different. And why a 118ne gearbox? The top gear ratio is still 1:1!
Now this is quite an arbitrary statement. It depends on which cam you're running and a whole lot of other things too.

Top gear ratio is not the only reason for choosing one gearbox over another. There's also spacing between gears, and how smooth the box is. For smoothness you cant beat the 118 box, or the S1 deluxe box for that matter which is a direct fit in the 1100.

Last edited by ananthkamath : 28th July 2007 at 01:30.
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Old 28th July 2007, 01:43   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ananthkamath View Post
Top gear ratio is not the only reason for choosing one gearbox over another. There's also spacing between gears, and how smooth the box is. For smoothness you cant beat the 118 box, or the S1 deluxe box for that matter which is a direct fit in the 1100.
Smoothness could be one point but the spacing between the gears 1100 vs 118NE, dont know how that is going to change things drastically. Yes the final drive is different on the cars. However the S1 Deluxe box is not a direct fit on the 1100 body, will need customisation/alteration to the cross member. Worth the effort? Anybody's guess.

Behram.dhabar is the best person for this answer.
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Old 28th July 2007, 03:11   #36
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I think it would be better if you go for a 2nd hand zen or esteem then try modding it rather than doing an engine swap on a premier padmini and going through all those hazels and finally if the engine swap is not done properly you will end up spending more time in the garage than enjoying it.....


Vijay
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Old 28th July 2007, 03:24   #37
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Originally Posted by vijay_k View Post
I think it would be better if you go for a 2nd hand zen or esteem then try modding it

Vijay
That is not his intent. Modded Zen and Modded Padmini are different beasts and their USP's are different.
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Old 28th July 2007, 05:32   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
Smoothness could be one point but the spacing between the gears 1100 vs 118NE, dont know how that is going to change things drastically. Yes the final drive is different on the cars. However the S1 Deluxe box is not a direct fit on the 1100 body, will need customisation/alteration to the cross member.
What I meant is that the S1 box is a direct fit on the 1100 engine. I dont know if the S1 body came with a different cross-member.

Spacing of gear ratios does change things drastically in a racing situation but maybe not that much for the street.
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Old 28th July 2007, 08:55   #39
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Dear 1100D and all others geniunely interested in S1 related information:

After reading all the mails that you guys are shooting to each other on the S1 transmission et al, let me clarify as follows:

First of all, the ratios are 3.757 / 2.169 / 1.404 / 1.000 for NISSAN transmission and 3.86 / 2.38 / 1.57 / 1.00 for FIAT transmission.

The Padmini was introduced with NISSAN aggregates in 2 phases. 1 - only the gearbox (quite good number of cars were released in the field) and 2 - engine and gearbox (very very few cars were released in the field).

As far as the F4W56A gearbox is concerned, the main casing was changed to incorporate the Padmini engine bell housing configuration, so gravity die cast housings were made and cars were sold with these housings. The housings were not pressure die cast as the die cost is prohibitive. As far as your specific query on cross member is concerned, as the cars were with floor shift (deluxe BU) as well as column shift (deluxe BE), you will all appreciate that in the floor shift the stick is directly connected to the gearbox whereas in the column shift, the system is remotely operated. In order to have the column shift, original NISSAN design of shifter was adapted where the "REAR EXTENSION OF THE GEARBOX" is smaller in length (this gearbox is NISSAN van derived). Thus it was necessary for us to use a two piece propeller shaft in the column shaft car with the NISSAN gearbox (Euler's theory of long columns), whereas we stayed with the single piece propeller shaft in the floor shift gearbox as the length of the rear extension of the gearbox was adequate by design. Therefore, in the column shift car, there is a centre bearing for the propeller shaft (118NE derived), mounted on an additional cross member bolted to the floor. With the kind of corrosion that the floor is susceptible to, you can well imagine the condition of this cross member. Therefore, if anybody is thinking of buying an S1, I will strongly recommend only floor shift as these hassles are avoided.

Further, in the NISSAN transmission cars, the clutch was operated by a cable instead of a link which is another problem because Remsons cables who was the OE vendor may not be manufacturing these cables any more. With the kind of dusty environment at the cable location, performance gets disturbed.

Further, in order to orient the cable correctly away from the exhaust, thee is a 7 degrees orienting spacer assembled in the bell housing. Many mechanics do not know all this and end up destroying the design.

With all above information known to me (I happened to be one of the designers of these systems), I DO NOT PURCHASE NISSAN TRANSMISSION CARS AT ALL. I only purchase cars with FIAT transmission, so no problem.

Understood ? Good.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 28th July 2007, 15:24   #40
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i know its easier to mod a zen or esteem than a fiat. but i prefer moddin a fiat. zen is my second choice.
with patience and dedication anything is possible. but i am not so good at it. before i wear off u guys have to convince me. or else wil have to go with option b.

what all i will have to do to fit a 118ne/s1 deluxe gearbox into my s1 w steering mount gearbox?

who in tvpm or south have done/ can do mod for fiat/padmini. who is that guy with turbo charged conti engine in fiat. where he did that from.

also need help with padmini s1. where can i get s1's parts. exhaust pipe, thermal switch for fan etc.
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Old 29th July 2007, 02:31   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatdust View Post
what all i will have to do to fit a 118ne/s1 deluxe gearbox into my s1 w steering mount gearbox?

also need help with padmini s1. where can i get s1's parts. exhaust pipe, thermal switch for fan etc.
Please read the post above from Mr Behram Dhabar, you will understand why the change of gearbox is not warranted.

S1 exhaust manifold might not be freely available now, you can check your nearest junkyard (you'll love the visit cos you have no idea what you may see there!!) as regards the Pipes they are available with any shop who used to stock OEM PAL parts. I guess the Pipes are also made by a company called P.K
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Old 15th October 2007, 12:01   #42
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Searched for engines. Conti engine and 118ne car as such is available. Both at low rates. Not so old Amby engine is also available. Is it the same as conti engine. Think i will stick to conti engine. What should i look for while buying the engine.
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Old 15th October 2007, 13:57   #43
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
You could put in a V6. It's something I've thought long and hard about. A nice V6 with 150 hp and 20 kgm , in a RWD under 1 tonne. Should be a hoot.
I would love to see you fit an engine like that into a fiat's hood, or did you mean we'll need to elongate the hood too while at the swap (?)

manson.
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Old 15th October 2007, 15:00   #44
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Originally Posted by madan80 View Post
anyways - meshing the engine and GB for a FWD and RWD - from what i hear is a night mare - do try and get your hands on a nice old conti engine - and do the works on it - like port, polish etc etc- and then throw that into the fiat. then u will have yourself one MEAN machine!
The conti engine is not as fast as the esteem engine!!
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Old 16th October 2007, 06:59   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
After reading all the mails that you guys are shooting to each other on the S1 transmission et al, let me clarify as follows:
...
...
Superb information Mr. Dhabhar!

I dont know how i missed that post earlier..
Its great for us to have access to such indepth, original and firsthand information. Hope to see more of it in the near future....

cya,
R
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